The Empire is NOT bad....

oh ok then nevermind me

 

Sorry, I suppose I'm a little touchy on that subject...

but Yeah Fantastic Four DOES look bad... except for the girl!

 

I mean, why not North Korea? Everything the US needed for invading Iraq can be applied to North Korea. They actually HAVE weapons of mass destruction. "Dear Leader" keeps the people starved while he watches his 10000+ movie collection

Yes, let us by all means take on North Korea next. They're most certainly high up on the list of those who deserve a regime change.

 

For all of you who think the Empire is not bad ... GO LIVE IN ONE. I'd like to see your opinions when they're more than abstract meanderings on what an Empire might be like. From people who have lived in the empires of history: "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." That's why a system of checks and balancs has helpd to make the US one of the greatest experiments of governance in world history. Our power came from our intelligence and our rebellion against an Empire, not military might and blind adherence to whatever "dear leader" would like.

To those who claim to think war is great ... glad to hear you love it. Now get your lazy a** off this board and go fight one of the two wars that we've got going on. We've let both Afghanistan and now Iraq plunge into either insurgency or massive drug production run by crime lords and our miltary can not make their recruitment numbers - so get yourself to where you can do some good, because obviously, you're better at ra-ra's for home team rather than the critical thought required to judge the merits of our actions. PS - I was for Afghanistan, and against Iraq. why? Because I judged each one based on facts rather than emotions. But I guess it makes me a flip-flopper to judge each event on a case by case basis rather than simply root, root, root no matter what.

And to Quiet Mandalorian, I assume you have family or friends in Spain to be able to make such a well-thought out comment about them pulling out of Iraq because of the bombing, but just like everyone else being fed propoganda by Fox and the Post, the two had no relation. Zapatero made a campaign promise to pull the troops out if elected MONTHS before the bombing happened. See, Spain didn't really care what the US rumor ill thought. Zapatero made a promise and stuck to it. I'll take that any day over Bush, who when first running for president in 2000 said, "We are not in the business of coming in and replacing other country's governments with ones we'd like better." sounds pretty flip-floppish to me. You go, Spain. It's nice to see that some people still hold their governing leaders accountable.

And finally, to the right wingers, you'll wake up one day to find out that you were on the wrong side of history. Just as the Senators of the Old Republic, just as the Germans who supported fearless leader because of the way he stirred their patriotism with empty promises of idealogical infallibility. The fact is, you right-wingers are the ones constantly screaming about how liberals never shut up, and yet you guys infest chatboards and airwaves whining. The first people to start shouting about Episode III/Bush comparisons were Republicans. Stop prancing around like proud peacocks, advertising your beliefs as if you're afraid if you don't repeat them they won't be real ... everyone is sick of it.

The Empire is evil. If you want to turn a blind eye to all the evil things they did over the course of four movies, then take it from GL who calls them an evil empire. If you don't want to because you don't agree with his "political views", then go make your own fictional universe. Let's see how many tickets you sell.

 

and his way of life is..the Sith way of life which is
motivated by control and power.

You think Sidious was brought up thinking he was evil ? I don't at all. "Good is a point of view, Anakin." < Precisely correct.

Oh, and just to stir things up,America is not that far off an Empire...and I'm quite Pro-America for a European!

 

"That's why a system of checks and balancs has helpd to make the US one of the greatest experiments of governance in world history. Our power came from our intelligence and our rebellion against an Empire, "

Now I dont't really want to argue here, but that statements is soo arrogant. You just wrote its so biased its horrible, at least be honest, you owe it to the people who won independence for the US, they won it through terrorism, or freedom fighting, see it as you may, they were mostly lucky, at times smart, and at times, well you know.

As for "one of the greatest experiments of governance in world history", well, sure, I mean who wouldn't be loyal to a powerful ruthless organization that has more nukes, guns and other weapons than this world can bear. I'm not trying to be rude but I mean, "Rule through fear of force rather than force itself", that really comes to mind here, sure there is no direct rule, but there sure is indirect.


I'm not anti "american" but you have to see every side of a conflict, and when you do you realize the absolute truth of all this, it is an uncivilized complication of life, it is intelligence at its worse, we as a human race are evil. Why? because we are the most intelligent creatures on Earth, evil comes from us, it is our creation and it manipulates far too many of us. You never see animals (any kind) fighting wars because of political disagreements or because of a supposed "terrorist" action to which there could be any number of causes.

I admit, that Sidious, as a super intelligent man, had the ability to posses inmense evil, he did what he was meant to do, we lived his life to the fullest, he brought the sith back to glory, but in the process he hurt countless people and destroyed counless dreams, so evil is there, point of view or not it is there, but it is not blameable on one single person or one single organization, only on their actions

 

Ok fine, the Empire/Sids is not bad,
they're just misunderstood

 

When women can vote and their are no more rape rooms in Iraq, I think it is infact us "right wingers" who will be on the right side of history. Every war is bad to a liberal, but infact Star Wars teaches the opposite. Morons like Hitler, Saddam, Palps, and Kim Jong Lame, must be faced sooner or later, or they spread like a cancer.

 

And to Quiet Mandalorian, I assume you have family or friends in Spain to be able to make such a well-thought out comment about them pulling out of Iraq because of the bombing, but just like everyone else being fed propoganda by Fox and the Post, the two had no relation. Zapatero made a campaign promise to pull the troops out if elected MONTHS before the bombing happened. See, Spain didn't really care what the US rumor ill thought. Zapatero made a promise and stuck to it. I'll take that any day over Bush, who when first running for president in 2000 said, "We are not in the business of coming in and replacing other country's governments with ones we'd like better." sounds pretty flip-floppish to me. You go, Spain. It's nice to see that some people still hold their governing leaders accountable.

You don't seem to realize that the bombing gave Zapatero and his fellow Reds the support they needed to form the government, because they promised to pull Spanish troops from Iraq.

So Al-Qaeda bombs a train, everyone freaks out and votes Socialist, and the terrorist get exactly what they wanted in the first place.

BTW, empires themselves aren't neccessarily bad, but the Galactic Empire under Palpatine sure is.

 

Yor wacked like darth sinister said I mean wow blowing up a planet is a real sign of peace you might wanna re think this whole message all over again!

 

"Morons like Hitler, Saddam, Palps, and Kim Jong Lame, must be faced sooner or later, or they spread like a cancer. "

Well, this world is rather full of morons, however, these are more specifically mornonic geniuses, except Palps, hes just doin whats right for his people, even if its wrong for others, basically he is loyal to his kind, so you could say he is a patriot of the Sith, so again to the points of view

 

Politicians make decisions every day which result in deaths, but x amount of dead people is acceptable for outcome a, b or c.

1 planet in the starwars galaxy is no different to Blair or Bush deciding we have to drop a bomb in such and such a region.

 

Um, Reds are Communist, Mandalorian; you're critcizing the Socialists. Get your slurs straight.

And no, the bombing was not cause and effect. If you do not know, Aznar was out there blaming the bombing on the Basque separatists before an investigation had even begun. He paid the political price for that and for many other foolish things that happened under his party - such as loss of jobs, increased poverty, a further gap between the rich and poor, going to war when the majority of the people voted against it ... he paid the price for his arrogance and for curling in Bush's lap like a poodle. I speak on this with authority because my faily is Spanish and I follow Spanish news daily. I don't just regurgitate what the American outlets choose to air.

Sauron18, I'm not sure if you read my whole post, but I think you have confused my point. Might makes right and fear through rule is the order of the day TODAY; what made the US one of the great experiments (not the only, but ONE of them) was the careful thinking of the Founding Fathers to design a system that would not allow another King George (oooh, delicious irony). The US was not a huge power with many nukes when they rebelled against the British Empire - you're mixing two separate arguments. Yes, you can see the Revolutionary War as seapratists/terrorists against an Empire; you can see the rebels of the OT that way too. The point is, critical thought rather than ideological blindness gives you the power to understand and act accordingly, and even throw off the yoke of an unjust Empire (the British at the time, or the Galactic). Unfortunately, ideological blindness seems to be the order of the day today.

Which brings me to HawkHeadKent. Guy, liberals judge wars based on whether it is just or not. Hence my last post, which it seems you did not read: "I was for Afghnistan." I was even for the first Gulf War. That doesn't ake me stupidly agreeing to every war anyone wants to have; I am not for war, but I am for necessary wars. Iraq was not a factually based war; it was a war based on sentiment. Finally, we've gotten to talk about women's rights in Iraq - well, I've gotta give it to you Repubs, after the fourth reason, you're finally making a good case to go to war. Too bad the first three reasons (9/11, WMDs, the Iraqis can strike us in twenty minutes) came first. Too bad hald the country still supports people who were fumbling for a reason to justify a war planned well before the 9/11 cause they blamed it on. And yeah, as a New Yorker, I'm pissed that they used my loss as their political currency. Which brings me back to Star Wars (you know, why this board exists).

Any institution built on lies and propoganda is inherently morally bankrupt. Therefore, the Galactic Empire, built on lies and deception and MURDER has a perception as evil. It is evil because it does not even try to uphold honorable ideals. The Jedi tried and failed; the Empire is not even interested in trying, hence disbanding the Senate and blowing up a planet as a show of strength (which sadly, is beginning to become the only language anyone understands anymore).

 

Im not rebublican, but I am conservitive. I believe in freeing people from Ass#$^s like Saddam, and so forth. I dont care about WMD's. Those people have nothing without us..........no hope......If we can give them the opportunity to be free, and take out terrorists at the same time, then Its a good thing from my stand point.

 

The Empire is not bad in the same way that STalin was not a bad dictator.

 

The Empire is not bad? Good lord, we have to go through this exercise again? Okay, try this one for size:

Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope

It is a period of Civil War. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil GALACTIC EMPIRE.

During the fighting, rebel agents managed to steal the plans for the DEATH STAR, an armored battlestation with enough firepower to destroy an entire planet.

Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and bring freedom to the galaxy..

Okay, what part of that opening crawl suggests that the Empire isn't anything save bad?

 

Nothing, hell they blew up a peaceful planet. How can you misconstrue such acts as stemming from good intentions.

 

Nothing, hell they blew up a peaceful planet. How can you misconstrue such acts as stemming from good intentions.

The same way you likely view America as "good", despite the anhillation of two "peaceful" cities in order to end WWII.

History is written by the victors.

You have no knowledge of what was on Alderaan. But judging from the lines in ANH, the princess, her father, and the ship and crew it seems resonable to conclude that Alderaan was a hot bed of rebel activity.

 

For all those who don't know, the United States is an empire.

And for all those who don't know, Parliment ran the British Empire, not the King, and they were not unjust.

So please stop with those innaccurate comparisons.

 

Star Wars is a morality play of good vs evil.

It is not some actual, other universe in which the Empire actually exists. It is a story written by George Lucas in which the 'just' Old Republic is taken over by the 'evil' Galactic Empire. There is 'no history to be written by the victorys,' or 'other side of the debate.'

The Galactic Empire, for the purposes of the story, is evil. We can debate greys all we want with the United States and real life.

But this is fiction.

And in this fiction, the heroic rebels taken down a Galactic Empire dominated by an evil Sith Lord.

Understand me?

 

I would have expected better from a fellow Wing X'er pilot

 

I'm under no illusions.

I *like* that the Empire is evil. =) Who wants to be one of the good guys anyway?

 

wee woo empire is evil stop trying to be "different" nerds (of coruse this goes for the fools who say it's good, nerds)

 

Of course the Empire isn't bad!

I mean, we're talking about a regime that twice constructed moon-sized battle stations, complete with superlaser canons, called "Death Stars"! Death Stars, for crying out loud.

If anyone thinks the Empire isn't bad, then by definition you must think governments under Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, Jong Il, Mugabe, and countless other jerks of the past aren't "bad" either. Fascist scum.

 

Nobody is saying the Empire is good, it just isn't totally bad, it's a normal government with the same kinds of agressive decisions governments on Earth do, sure, to scale obviously, but nonetheless so, and don't be so stereotypical with saying that anyone who doesn't agree with empire being bad is fascist scum, its insulting and frankly just stupid, so stop it, try to view other points of views, rather than just your own, otherwise you are no better than Hitler, Stalin, Palps and all of them, whose flaw is that which you are so galantly showing