Lit The genealogy of the Skywalker-Solo clan

Well, that’s my point Appointed titles generally don’t change based on relation unless it’s a formal vs informal address, right? So if Augwynne says “mother Rell” and Cracken’s NRI agents say “grandmother Rell” (from Gethzerion’s position), I’d speculate that the intention is a link by lineage.

Of course, “Mother” is a title of leadership to the Dathomiri and Rell was the Mother of the SMC before Augwynne, wasn’t she? Maybe Grandmother means retired Mother—but then we still have Augwynne using “mother Rell” in the present tense.

 

Maybe she still see Rell as the leader? Or as a person with the mother title herself she's expected to call the elders mother instead of grandmother or similar.

A possibility is that Cracken's agents are not as good as they think the are and the witches are just having fun with them

 

Sister and Mother may not even be used for relations but as titles only. Likewise not every priest called Father did father kids
Also in that regard Rell to Augwynne is like Ta'a chume to Isolder/Teneniel Djo. Mother of the Queen/ruler. Queenmother.

Mother is the title for the ruler, Queenmother the previous ruler and parent of current ruler usually. But Hapes kinda screwed that up by calling the actual ruler Queenmother. Like Queen and Mother of the people more so than the traditional use of the term.

I wonder how many agents Cracken sent and how few of them got back to report

Imagine this scenario:

He sent one agent, none returned. He sent another to investigate, none returned. He sent a full on specforce assault and rescue team. Of the entire squad 1 returned and reported his squadmates are now happily married and resign duty. But this one reporting back clearly was enchanted and is not reliable as source so he has to send two more teams to verify or rescue. One gets killed in the attempt, the other makes it back alive reporting that the other team was killed not by witches but a newly arrived force of Hapan cyborg soldiers that were about to claim and secure the planet for the Consortium it now officially belonged to. Thus the team returned with an official note of protest of the Consortium that NR Intel is intruding on their territory. So Cracken sends another team this time diplomatically cleared by the Royal House of Hapes and accompanied by a Hapan Spec Force team with advance communication that they will be recieved by the Singing Mountain Clan and not intercepted by others. That team finally returned to report for the book as we know it.. but soon after quit duty too to marry the hapans they had met on the trip.

 

I noticed I forgot to post yet another headcanon pet theory for Mara Jades parentage...

Mara Jade's real name is Elora Danan. The April Fools Joke of placing the planet in the GFFA is canon (to me) and the Empire arrived on the world and took her.

Though I love the sequel book trilogy by Claremont and Lucas. It showed a lot of what was going on with Lucas in later years and how SW would have been, had he done it back then more! Without spoiling it, the sequel trilogy to Willow was basically the Dark Empire of that universe. Very deep, very shockingly expanding and going places nobody thought possible before with just one movie. Even to the degree it may mirror some of Lucas later really out there SW ideas like TCW had.

 

Elora Danan as Mara, huh? I’ve never considered it, but I have often toyed with putting Willow in the SW universe, usually in the Old Republic era. I’ll have to check out the books sometime.

I’ve been thinking about the Fetts lately. Given there’s a few million still alive after the Clone Wars (not to start another debate on the number of Clones), how many that we know of settled down and had families? For my list I have:

Boba Fett and Sintas Vel, and their daughter Ailyn. Also a granddaughter named Mirta Gev.

Darman Skirata and Etain Tur-Mukan, their son Venku.

Freeman and his son Connor Freeman.

And the dubious Cut and Suu Lawquane, whose children may or may not be his.

Was there a place that decommissioned Clones flocked to after the war? I’m guessing Traviss would say Mandalorian space. I wonder if they have family reunions.

 

Since we seems to have moved out of the way from just Skywalker/Solo genealogy to overall SW genealogy do I have a question: How do kiffar families and their tattoo markings, called qukuuf, works?

The thing is that the qukuuf is presented as clan markings but of the identified clan Voss members we see in the Star Wars: Republic comic do Tinté, Kurlin and Pethros have a vertical yellow strip covering most of their face, Quinlan and his mother Quian have a finger broad horizontal yellow mark across the bridge of the nose and cheeks, and then we have Asanté who has a green vertical stripe going down from above her brow to just below her eyes. And then we have the Voss members who appear in the Legacy comic who each have a qukuuf different from any of the above mentioned.

Can anybody explain how this work?

I was more thinking along the line of a) Cracken's agents observing from a distance what the dathomirians was doing and drawing their own conclusions: "The natives have erecting a big pole in the ground, covered it with flowers and greenery and are now dancing around it. It most be some kind of fertility ritual with the pole representing a phallus." (it's actually just a festival celebrating midsummer and that the stressful part of early summer is over and they can mostly relax until the harvest begins. The pole and the dancing is just there because its nice to look at and fun).

b) them talking the dathomirians about their history and culture and being told half-truths and outright made-up stuff by some of them just because it's fun. ("Hej gals, the outlander believes everything I tell her. Want to help me in really messing with her?")

Who's also partly of the Kiffar clan Vel (or fully if the Kiffars are matrilineal).

I think @Mia Mesharad can ad to this.

 

Sure. If by family we're specifically talking about couples here, there was also Ordo Skirata and Besany Wennen, Fi Skirata and Parja Bralor, Atin Skirata and Laseema―who discussed adoption and likely followed through―as well as Hock and Telia Malsuum, in addition to their child together. We also have Sheeka Tull and her child with Jangotat still out there, even if he didn't survive the war, himself.

And that's not even getting into family in the larger sense. All of the Nulls and Omega Squad definitely found family when they settled down with Clan Skirata, while the commandos of Yayax Squad were taken in by Clan Bralor and their adoptive mother Rav. Surely Rex, Wolffe, and Gregor considered each other to be family after all those years together on Seelos, too. And both Rex and Kix seem to have found new homes among the ragtag crews they each ended up with in their times.

I feel like I'm forgetting somebody, but off the top of my head, there are those.

Oh, they're definitely his, there's nothing dubious about it. After all, he's repeatedly noted to be their dad throughout The Deserter and in one of the Aftermath novels, if I recall. He's just not their biological father.

There was at least one retirement home that we know of on Coruscant for clones who stayed with the army until they aged out. But aside from that, yeah, Mandalore seems to have ended up with the highest post-war concentration of clones that we currently know of.

The Skiratas are seemingly still pretty close by 40 ABY. A family reunion of sorts could also be what all that partying going on at Levet's farm that same year was all about, at least for the Mandalore-based clones and their families.

 

@Mia Mesharad

Given the high concentration on Mandalore or in Mandalorian Space I do wonder (for One Canon purposes if mingling new and Legends canons), if the Empire get involved there because of that. Fearing a Rise of Mandalore, the Empire went in and took over. Or hired Mandos for their dirty jobs lead by Fett.


@Golbolco
@Thrawn McEwok

Talking Clones with families... what about Thrawns countless settlements of Soontir Fel Clones and their families and kids? Do any of those have a claim for the Throne of the Felpire? Did the Felpire ever take care of that loose end or take them in?

Fett Clones and Fel Clones and families must be very careful to not meet/love someone they are actually related to without knowing it. And then there are the other Thrawn made clones in the UR, of Kam Solusar, Mara and Kyle and others from Crosscurrent and Riptide and their family startups.

Heck if even one of Thrawns facilities went undiscovered, we may unfreeze clones of popular EU characters centuries after Legacy for new adventures!

We would have needed an imposter arc in the later Legends about clones and shapeshifters used aplenty in a shadow war. Imagine Galactic Alliance Intel operating like Shield and Nick Fury in the MCU employing shapeshifters to be everywhere at once. Even a fake Kyle Katarn can instill fear in enemies seeing him to surrender before the fight even started

 

I always intended this thread to branch out anyway. Although, aren't the Skywalkers linked to Clan Vos via Nat marrying Droo Rawk?

I would have assumed that Tinte, Kurlin, and Pethros are all of the Vos clan because they all have the same stripe and then Quian married in, but Wookieepedia says I have it backwards. There's also Zac'ryah Vos, whom Quinlan impersonated and used the same stripe he wears for the job, and Zharia Vos has a slightly different qukuff on her face (horizontal across the nose, and vertical on the chin.) My basic assumption is that in most cases the tattoo is passed through the maternal line (except when the mother is non-Kiffar) and clan lineage is paternal, but when I thought about it that couldn't be correct because Kurlin, Tinte, and Pethros all have both the same stripe and the same last name. I guess the uncomfortable possibility is that Quian and Pethros are initially members of the same clan? That still doesn't explain the differing stripes, though.

Also of interest is that Ahnah Rawk has no qukuff at all, unlike her mother. At first I thought this might be because her father Nat isn't a Kiffar, but actually Wookieepedia says that she's not his daughter.

And another complication: the intent of Duursema and Ostrander was that Zharia Vos isn't a direct descendant of Quinlan. This does make sense given Korto Vos wouldn't pass his qukuff to offspring (unless they were even less Kiffar than he was) but none of the other Clan Vos has the horizontal stripe.

@Mia Mesharad - thanks for the extensive list! I hope that at least in canon we get a deeper exploration into post-Republic clones and their lives, how their children interact with another clone's children, et cetera.

I've actually been going through the post-ROTJ novels again to see if I can identify more Soontir Fel sleeper clones than just the Devists from Spectre of the Past. I assume the intent was to retcon previous characters into Fel clones so that it wasn't a dead end plot point, but they just never got around to this when all the writers shifted focus onto the NJO series. Otherwise, it would be interesting to have a plot either pre- or post-Legacy where the kid or grandkid of a Soontir Fel clone is challenging the right of the Felperor's rule! This could eventually lead into a plot reminiscent of the Courtship of Princess Leia, where the ruling Fel has to verify their ancestry. This could even tie into @Trip 's idea of a Felperor making up a lineage for an obscure ancestor like Shmi Skywalker.

In my opinion, one of the biggest tragedies of the Legends cancellation is that Riptide never got a sequel. I like to think that Thrawn's fear/misunderstanding of Force-sensitive people meant that for the most part, the clones in those novels were experiments and not ever meant to be deployed. Or maybe Thrawn was planning ahead: if he saved the Empire and could solidify a fleet against the coming Vong invasion, then maybe he felt he needed his own Darth Vader or an army of Jedi that could be easier controlled than those of the Old Republic. I hope there weren't too many cloning facilities that Thrawn had up and running, so as not to lead to a continuity snarl with clones and doppelgangers strewn all over the universe, but I still liked that concept and I wanted to see more of it.

I have a feeling that we were eventually going in this direction. There's the Battle of the Sith Lords game featuring Maul in the Legacy era, and apparently he was suggested to be a clone (although I like the idea that he had a typical Dathomiri lifespan in Legends.) I don't know if this was a good thing or a bad thing, but I could see that if Legends were allowed to go on long enough and the writers started to run out of steam, then we might get a Luuke Skywalker circa 500 ABY, clone of the legendary hero of the New Republic.

 

I'm actually surprised that so many clones survived that they have to create at least one retirement home just for them. The Empire feels so much like the kind of organisation that would keep using the Clonetroopers, and really any kind of foot soldier, until they died with their boots on.

Depend on the version of Mandalorians - in some the Mandos are just another semi organised resistance groups unaffiliated with the Rebels, really no more threat than any of the many others found in the Imperium; in other they are presented as having a large amount of elite warriors with some of the galaxies best equipment; and in other they are just another spacefaring warrior culture, no more special than any of the many other in the GFFA.

The problem for One Canon is that Marvel's old Star Wars comics' [which was not considered part of continuity for most of the EU's history] Mandalore don't really fit together with how Fett was presented in most of the pre-PT literature depictions of Boba Fett (and many of those depictions don't fit together with each other), which don't fit together with how Karen Traviss presented Mandalore, and TCW did its own thing that did not try to fit then currant EU [even if it used it as a mine for ideas]

"Run! It's Kyle Katarn!"
"No you dim-witted dullards! He's clean shaven. He lacks the Beard!"
"You are right sir! All men fire!"
[Kyllee Katarn begin to dance the plasma jig]

A possibility is that the qukuuf are family markings, not clan markings - as in: Kiffar clans are made up by many families, each with their own qukuuf but they each belong to the same clan. If it's so could there possibly be some kind of rule that you may not romance or sleep with clan member's charring the same qukuuf as you do.

Something that speaks against this is that all kiffars we see named only have a personal name and their clan name, no family name or patronym/matronym. But maybe they don't need that if their family belonging is visible by their qukuuf

 

Well the Emperor expected just that, using them up and then replacing them with recruits. But the problem that nobody expected was, those clones were so damn good, they simply didn't die. Got the mission done, returned for more. Had he kept them, no recruits were needed and he wanted recruits as essential part to his plan for galactic domination. To enforce indoctrination, as well as have many planets and familiies bound to the Empire by members "held hostage"/serving the military.

So he had to retire the clones that were still good to use, see Rex and pals in Rebels! And retired clones as reserve should he need them always is a good idea.

 

That's not how this works. If they come back from a mission you send them on the next one, and the next.

New recruits will always be needed, as occupation troops, to replace clonetroopes who has fallen (and no matter how good they are so are they not immortal), to crew ships (most clonetroopers was mark troopers and fighter pilots), to do the jobs that you did not have enough bodies to do during the war.

Also, if you are recruiting for indoctrination or hostage keeping so do you not really need to in practise have need for new recruits, you just recruit them and begin training.

 

Recently I've been toying with the idea that, if we set the Sequel Trilogy after Crucible circa 50-55 ABY, then Ben could be the son of Jacen left behind shortly before he went on his trip to the Unknown Regions, making him Allana's brother and Han and Leia's foster son. This gives us potential for the Solo lineage continuing through a male, although I think it's just as likely that given Allana's Hapan and Dathomirian ancestry, her spouse would ultimately take her name.

 

Tahiri rather would hide the kid on Zonama Sekot with the Vong... raised in an ooglith masquer if you are extreme. No wonder nobody knows about it or Ania does not want to talk about it.

But Malinza is a loose end I am curious about too.

Then again, we all probably speculate for nothing and Ania is hiding the fact that her true name is Ania Sal-Solo... she just dropped the Sal for obvious reasons

 

I used to think that Malinza Captison was second most likely to be Ben's eventual wife and ancestor to the Legacy Skywalkers, behind Vestara Khai. It's like the eye color thing with Mara Jade: Kol has green eyes but Vestara and Ben don't, but Malinza has green-grey eyes like her mom. That being said, I don't think it's likely the Captisons are involved for right now.

Good catch on a potential Sal-Solo link. Anyone else remember Jarik, the street urchin who lied to Han about being his cousin? I like to think he was the result of Thrackan dumping an illegitimate kid off-world. That way the poor guy can be a real Solo like he always wanted to be.

By the way, I went over Despoilers of an Empire again recently while trying to gather all of the potential identities of Cronal, and learned that Cronal believes that his mother was Dathomiri. Did the Sorcerers of Rhand come to Dathomir, or did she go to them?

 

Well, Dark Horse's summary for Legacy 2 issue 1 says this of Ania: "She’s Han and Leia’s great-great granddaughter introduced to the Legacy saga!"

So, she's definitely the granddaughter of either Jacen, Jaina, or Anakin.

 

Did the authors intend a specific Dathomiri as mother, for I think they might, or is it just in vogue to be of dathomiri descent nowadays? There are offworld Dathomiri aplenty if you look closely... one even with the Prophets of the Dark Side, Merili. But she rather could be his daughter given she is born 27BBY as per wook.
As for the mother... not many that old dathomiri we know of around, or at least their younger looks and long lifespans make ageguessing futile. Maybe even Charal could be his mother!

Thx for clarifying that! Well then, our earlier theories still hold.

 

There's no named witch in the article itself, but given that it was written between 2013-2014, I sort of suspect that linking characters to Dathomir was at the time in vogue.

I'm just trying to think of witches we knew had left Dathomir long before the films. They're almost all Nightsisters: Kyrisa, Charal, and Talzin. Merili seems more likely to me to be the mother of Cronal's daughter Sariss (but that retcon was icky so I pretend it didn't happen.) There's also the distinct possibility that the Sorcerers of Rhand were entirely made up by Lorz Geptun for his holofilm about Mindor and that Cronal was always a Prophet of the Dark Side, and also given Cronal's general insanity, he might be totally wrong about his parentage.

 

Just wondering: when did Kyrisa leave Dathomir? I did not find that information on her wook' page, but maybe it's just me that's blind.

Also, Mighella had left Dathomir before Charal.

 

I'm assuming Roan is the grandson of Jaina and Jag, so he would be their great-grandson.

 

Wait, great-great-granddaughter of Han and Leia would mean the Legacy characters are the great-grandchildren of Ben, Jacen, Jaina, and Anakin, not the grandchildren (except Roan.) So there's an extra generation between Ben and Kol, and Ania's the granddaughter of Allana (if descended from her.)

@Gamiel - Kyrisa at least left sometime during the time between the PT and the OT, given Galaxies's placement in the timeline. She's been on Hoth long enough to have taken control of the wildlife, but our only indication is "many years" from in-game dialogue. Servitude to the Emperor is mentioned in her backstory but for all we know that meant servitude to him while he was the Chancellor. So actually that rules her out as being Cronal's mother, probably.

EDIT: Just reviewed Kyrisa's page again; apparently she was exiled by Gethzerion herself from the Nightsisters, so she couldn't have been exiled before 4 BBY or so.