CT The Han-Leia Romance. Something I don't understand.

The cartoon is different since nothing was really contradicted as Filoni didn't go too far. A film won't work in that same regard. The fact is that it is an old Hollywood trope that people fall in love in a short period of time, compared to the real world.

 

Why does a conversation about Han and Leia always have to digress into a conversation about Anakin and Padme? The reverse is also true. We always end up having the same conversation no matter what.

 

I feel the reason there's some missing bits in the Han/Leia relationship is because Lucas wanted to keep his options open in regards to the love triangle. H/L weren't set in stone, hell, they weren't even supposed to end up together, but when Lucas went down the "twins" route, they removed scenes that no longer applied:



I feel that shows which direction GL was probably headed with L/L initially. When you look at Leia's behavior and what she says to Luke (and how she says it); the camera movement, the intimate direction by Kirshner; It's clear that she has feelings for him. It wasn't directed as Leia being caught off-guard with a kiss; No, she looks deep into Luke's eyes and reciprocates. This is in stark contrast to her interactions with Han where it's more antagonistic. When you add in the fact that Luke reached out to her when he's near death on Bespin and she hears him, it really drove home that they had a bond beyond anything H/L could hope to achieve. The fact that Splinter of the Mind's Eye was originally commissioned as a low budget sequel in the event ANH had bombed, it's fascinating to see how Lucas had L/L take center stage.

I always thought Leia's feelings for Han were supposed to be on the surface, to be obvious, but that she would eventually come to realize that she was always in love with Luke. Of course, Lucas nuked that and nuked it hard.

 

Because in six films, it is the only other romantic relationship depicted... :\

 

Han and Leia was already being set up on ANH. The bad boy - tough girl sexual tension. In ESB, you can tell they've fallen for each other from their first scene together. He's stayed around way too long (for her, mostly) and she doesn't want him to leave (for the rebellion and for her). Leia has experienced a lot of heartache watching her entire family and planet annihilated so she has the tough exterior to protect herself. And she's afraid of loving and losing someone which is evident as she keeps bringing up the fact that he's leaving to Han. And Han is right, she hasn't had enough scoundrels in her life. Just proper guys appropriate to be around a princess. But she's attracted to Han because he's brave in a reckless way (she even acknowledges that in ANH), deep down he has a heart of gold and he's outside the norm. It's going to take more than your average dude for Leia to start thinking about wanting a relationship or put her personal wants ahead or equal to the rebellion. And he's hot. That goes for Han, too. I imagine he's never known a woman like Leia. He's used to skanks in bars who are all over him. It'll take someone special to make him rethink what he wants out of life. And they both have difficult personalities and they found their match in who can deal with the other, because likely no one else can. They both respect the other for calling them out on their crap.

I believe it was Kasdan or Lucas who said they were purposely given that old time movie romance of boy and girl hate each other but really are in love. And that's what we got.

 

Yes, that's right. Han saved her life, after all, and saved the Alliance. She definitely has feelings for him, just watch her in the Throne Room scene and then watch them on Hoth. There are times in Empire when she tells him he is otherwise decent except when he is doing [.....].

In other worlds -- conflict. There is conflict in her feelings. The stuff stories are made of. She's attracted to him, but he rubs her the wrong way. She's used to people kissing her behind, but Han ain't that kind of guy. She hates the way he treats her, and -- this is the important part -- she actually likes it at the same time. Just check out the subtext in the Falcon kissing scene. (subtext, another wonderful screenwriting term)

Here are the beats in that scene, and I will italicize the subtext in that scene. The unsaid stuff that is actually going on under the surface.

Beat #1: Han startles Leia from behind
Subtext: Han approaches Leia and offers his help .. but he's also making a move on her.

Beat #2: Leia pushes him away and tells him to back off.
Subtext: She doesn't like his approach. She's a control freak.

Beat #3: Han apologizes and says "sorry your worship".
Subtext: From Leia's viewpoint, typical Han. Even when he does something good (apologize) he does it bad (calling her a name), which he does because he doesn't care for her always bristling at him.

Beat #4: Leia asks him why does he always have to be so difficult.
Subtext: This is actually a plea. Han -- I want you -- try another tactic. The one you always try doesn't work.

Beat #5: Han apologizes again and calls her -- for once -- by her actual name.
Subtext: Han finally understands what she's getting at. He sees an opening and he makes his move.

Beat #6: Leia allows him to get closer.
Subtext: Obvious! He's finally melting her heart.

Then they kiss after that. But the scene and the story turned through well-written conflict. It was a love/hate relationship that the two of them had to figure out themselves. They weren't just lovers standing there saying " I love you" and "you're so pretty" or whatever. Perhaps Carrie Fisher's acting wasn't that great in some of these scenes, one could make that case -- but certainly the interesting character designs are there from Lucas's original story and Kasdan did a great job bringing them together in the sequel.

 

It started back with ANH. Even though no one at the time had any idea it would become what it has, much less that there would sequels and new trilogies every 20 years, the seeds of the romance were there.

"Do you think it's possible for a princess and a guy like me?"

They were both outspoken strong willed people used to being charge. They got on each other's nerves, but found that oddly they enjoyed it. They found an equal in each other, they spoke each other's language as it were.

He saw it and felt it from her, but she was scared of his leaving her (ironic given TFA events) because of what he was and because he had a price on his head. Witness her reaction to his leaving in the beginning, this isn't a leader wanting to keep a general, that's a woman in love, but not willing to admit it.

She even comes right out on Bespin and admits it

"then your as good as gone, aren't you?"


She is fighting her self the whole trip to Bespin, not him. He's just trying to force her to come out and admit what they both know is true. It is only when confront with the very really and potentially permanent loss that she finally gives in and full admits it, making "I know" one of the most brilliant romantic lines. Any guy would be slapped, but for them it is perfect.

I only wish that it had been worked into TFA somehow..

 

I was so hoping for one of them to say "I know". I wanted to cry when I found out they didn't get a happy ever after (does anyone in the Skywalker family?), but how they ended up by the end of the film had me crying for her.

I don't really see it as him pushing himself on her. She was quite consenting. She's not the type to put up with anything she doesn't want. If she can stand up to Tarkin and Vader, she sure as heck can handle Han. She was at war with her own feelings, thus the deer in the headlights.

 

I think the Han/Leia romance is absolutely classic. Two people whose lives are intertwined for an extended period of time, who don't particularly get on to start with but become attacted to each other for whatever reason and fall in love. Probably happens in workplaces around the country on a daily basis. Love and sexual attracton are not an exact science.

Since other people are mentioning Anakin and Padme too - I don't think either Star Wars romance is unbelievable. People fall in love, sometimes with the wrong person, sometimes in the wrong circumstances, sometimes in spite of bad things they have done. However, the difference for me is that Anakin/Padme is horribly bogged down by iffy dialogue and lousy acting performances. Han/Leia in ESB has more realistic dialogue and (most importantly) BRILLIANT acting performances. That's the key to making it work. You FEEL the chemistry without them ever having to have a picnic by the lake. You don't need to think about their relationship - you just feel it changing. Brilliant.

 

I was so sad with that thing that happened on TFA. Was hoping to see them together again. Best movies couple ever.

 

I cried. It was the only time we ever see her character totally crack. I so wish they had worked "I know" in there some where.

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For some stupid reason Tapatalk won't let me edit my own post.

Somebody posted this on another thread. I thought it was perfect for here.





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Eh, it is something I have a huge distaste for, despite obvious chemistry and good acting from both parties due to 1980s BS "show her how she really feels" crap. the dialog and body movements are cringe worthy for me. More so than the rest of star wars. People get to decide when they want to pursue a relationship of their own agency and choice. I don't see that in their relationship before leia "Admits" what she has "known all along".

 

Haha I get what you're saying. it didn't make sense to me for a long time either, but I think the main reason is because of Han's charm and sass. He was always saying something witty, and I guess that was attractive to her. It is a bit confusing though. she was pissed at him for a while, and when he was going to get frozen in the carbonite, she kissed him and said she loved him. Probably because she didn't know if she would see him for a while.

 

Because Han's the coolest pimp in the galaxy, baby. What's not to understand?

 

I see it differently. Even though the whole twin thing hadn't been decided yet at the time of ANH and it was yet to be decided who ended up with who, the seeds of romance are there.

"Well he certainly is brave"
"I always knew there was more to you than money"
"I don't know, do you think it's possible for a princess and a guy like me?"
Add in the wink and smile at the end

I can definitely tell that despite driving each other crazy, they are also enjoying it. Neither is used to someone coming back at them with equal snark.

By ESB he knows she crazy about him but refuses to admit it (an old trope I know but still works sometimes) and is afraid because he has a price on his head and isn't fully committed to the rebellion at this point. You can see it in her reactions to him leaving. Her words say one thing, but her unspoken language says something else. Her reactions to him on the Falcon are those of someone at war with their own heart. He knows this and bugs her because he is crazy about her, and wants her to reciprocate. He knows she feels the same way, but won't come out and say it until she admits it. (It's almost like some weird game they play)

 

For his part, Han may banter and toss off suggestive remarks and sly smiles, but I don't believe he would've gone further unless he really knew that she'd respond favorably. He wouldn't force himself (no pun intended) on her if she'd told him "Leave me alone" with no ambiguity. In addition, he clearly felt affection for her; when he was about to leave in TESB, he seemed to be treating it as a sad matter when he starts talking to her. It's when she snipes at him that he responds in kind.

Besides, she'd have killed him if he'd tried to go too far without her allowance.

 

Exactly. If she can handle Tarkin and Vader, she would have made it quite clear if she was truly not interested. Speaking her mind is not a skill she lacks.

He wants her to reciprocate because he wants a relationship and knows she really feels the same.

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The line is actually this: "Well, he certainly has courage." But close enough.

 

It's been a long day. I was typing while on the phone with a customer who bring it in for a landing (metaphorically speaking )

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I don't think Han/Leia was a great love story but it was subtle and understated and came to a head in the Bespin carbon freezing chamber.

The Anakin/Padme romance tried WAAAAAY too hard and it just got over the top cheesy.

"Are you an angel?" Oh Gawd kill me now!

 

One thing that's been bothering me since TFA has been out..Am I a bad Han/Leia fan because while I'm sad they didn't make it I understand why and am ok with it? Some of the shippers on Social media are taking it way overboard and are stuck in 1980 in the Carbon Freezing Chamber.