PT The Jedi’s plan to arrest Palpatine in his office

The questions that I had is Mace and the Jedi rush to kill Palpatine or at least arrest him immediately. Which is reasonable but I had a couple questions about this. Would it not be a smarter idea to maybe get more than just four Jedi to go and arrest him. And also like wait until Obi-Wan and Yoda are back and then go arrest him but also would it not be wiser to maybe do this in a public area? Not in his private office?

Because the thing is if Palpatine fights back he’ll have to reveal that he is a force user that would get the whole public to find out who he is so. And not just that but the way that they approach him is by saying “Hey! We know that you’re a Sith Lord.” It’s like why would you reveal you know? That’s not a good idea. You want to do this secretly like if you’re gonna approach him pretend like you know things are normal like you don’t know that he is a Sith Lord and it’s like under normal circumstances and you’re just here to meet with him. And then once you’re in like a position where he’s surrounded and he can’t really do anything um you say “alright you’re under arrest.

The defense that I have heard is well they don’t actually want to arrest him, they want to kill him. That defense still doesn’t work because you would still want to do this um not only 1. Do this in public because if you attempted to kill him, he would have to fight back and then thus that would expose himself as a Sith Lord to everyone and then everyone would know um but 2nd If you want to kill him then waiting until you have people like Obi-Wan and Yoda and basically as many Jedi with you as you can get would be the right thing to do.

And not just that but if you want to capture Palpatine what you have to do is basically surround him so if he makes like one move they can just kill him so instead of doing that make the same position but just kill him without him doing anything. Another thing to remember like he says “I am the Senate” so he has a lot of power so I wouldn’t be taking chances with this guy especially since he is a Sith Lord.

 

At that point, right up until Ani told Mace he thought Palpatine was a Sith Lord, the Jedi only thought he was a corrupt leader, and maybe a tool of some shadowy Sith follower. They had no real evidence against him. And their idea of Grevious is dead = the war is over doesn't make sense, since the Seps could just put someone else in charge. Finally, the Jedi had no authority to make Palpatine give up powers that the Senate gave him, since that's a political situation that the Jedi have no true role in.
Basically, the Jedi panicked. They should've waited to see Palpatine's reaction to Grevious' death. And, if they really thought they had a case, they should've gone there with more than just four Jedi. They should've had maybe ten of them, plus high-ranking senators, plus trustworthy witnesses. And make it clear this was an arrest based on clear, provable charges beyond just Ani's word (which Mace has called into question in the past). So, Palpatine can't resist without tipping his hand too early, which, at the very least, puts his plans into question.
Instead, the Jedi jump the gun in such a way that Palpatine has the advantage and the Jedi look like rebels against the duly elected government. Basically, it's yet another way he conned them into following his plan.

 

The Jedi have the authority to arrest Palpatine. That's why they took action to arrest him. They just underestimated his power. Also, Lucas said Mace was doing the right thing until...



That includes arresting him.

 

But why don’t the Jedi just corner Palpatine so he doesn’t make a move. Also why not do the arrest in a public area? Capture him where other people will see who he really is. To make sure the Jedi masters won’t get killed.

 

why would Sid go out into a public area?

 

I think that Mace wasnt really thinking that far ahead after learning that Palpatine is the sith lord and was led by his ambition to finally take him down. I always liked to think that Mace underestimated how powerful of duelist palpatine could be (hence bringing only four jedi).

 

You can't corner someone easily. Palpatine is strong enough to blast them away. Arresting in a public area isn't optimal as civilians will be endangered. Doing it in public fits with his narrative that they are taking over.

 

Mostly agree.

Just going over there and having a few senators with them and inform him that Griev is dead and see what he says. Palpatine was the one who said that as long as Griev is alive, the senate will vote to prolong the war.
So report that Griev is dead and see what he says/does.
If he does not give up his extra powers, then they have senators that saw that and they can talk about what they will do now.
What the Jedi also should have done long before this is reach out to some senators they feel they can trust and talk with them. Build alliances, work together.

Mace should also have told the rest of the council what Anakin told him.

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark

 

It's why cops report in before going to a scene. It's foolish just to go and not tell anyone.

 

You don't think Palpatine wouldn't kill the senators and frame the Jedi?

 

Agreed, but I wouldn't bother typing out these kind of logical responses:

you are met with...well....Darth Sinister's posts

- you can't corner Ze god Palpatine
- he would blast every single Jedi away with lightning, every.single.one is completely helpless against ze god palpatine
- Palpatine would just kill ze senators and frame ze Jedi...
- you can't arrest him in public, ze public will be endangered and killed by him, and ze public would blame ze Jedi and not ze one who killed ze public, because Palpatine is a god.
- don't you see good is dumb. Ze Palpatine always wins.

So save your sanity while you can.

 

He won, didn't he?

 

so you're telling me if Mace waited a bit and took say 20 Jedi's to arrest Palpatine including Yoda all 20 would have succumbed to death? and I'm not talking about Jedi just standing there just waiting to get killed like shown in the movie, but all 20 going at him at the same time like a mob, Sidious would kill 'em all and wipe his shoulder like it was nothing? is that really what you're saying?

and what are the gifs showing exactly? Sidious fighting a Sith lord beaten by a Padawan in the first movie and his second rate brother doesn't prove any point you are trying to make.
So he can fight two people at once, and? so could Dooku...so could Maul.

 

The President of the United States is taking a walk down Washington, D.C. with his Secret Service...until members of the US army arrive, pushes away the Secret Services, and drags the President away in chains.

No way would that not be front- and center-page news. Even if the Jedi could exonerate themselves, their popularity will tank dramatically in the meantime. Remember, as far as the people know, Palpatine is this beloved grandfatherly savior of the Republic trying to protect them from the horrid Separatists.

 

Why would Sid permit 20+ jedi access to his office? He'd tell security to keep 'em out. A mob of 20 jedi would also prove the point that they were intent on taking over.

 

Send Yoda, Mace and Obi Wan. Send a 4th Jedi to film the encounter on their Jedi phone. Problem solved.

 

oh no! Security is at the door

Jedi:


"well, Security is too much for us guys, let's go back to the council and mope"

some of these responses are infuriating...

most wouldn't have to storm the office clearly, but if the few Jedi that go in and end up dead by a guy with a red saber, then subdue him 15 on 1 or something,

seriously it's not that hard to figure out folks.

 

Only Yoda would survive. Palpatine is too powerful. It's like Superman taking out the JLA, leaving only Wonder Woman, and she could barely survive in "Sacrifice". Palpatine is Superman and Wonder Woman is Mace.

"You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 204.

15 Jedi walk in, one Sith Lord walks out.

 

"good is dumb"
George Lucas


"there is absolutely no point to these movies, Palpatine could fart and the Jedi would be dead"
George Lucas

is basically what Lucas is saying then.

Good to know.

 

Palpatine is evil and powerful, but he's not stupid. Killing four Jedi in the privacy of his office who are there without a warrant or backup is one thing, and he can get away with it. But if a bunch of Jedi, plus high-ranking officials, plus other witnesses show up to make a public arrest, he's not going to kill any of them. If he does, no matter what he says about provocation, there will still be questions about why they were there and why they had to be killed. If he was smart, and he was, he'd let himself get arrested, then have any evidence against him be discredited or disposed of. Thus, he looks like an unjustly accused innocent party, the senators look like dupes, and the Jedi look like traitors.

 

First off, what witnesses? Why would the Jedi bring civilians to an arrest? Senators are one thing, but you think the press should be there? Second, which Senators? The Jedi don't know who to trust and the ones to trust, could be used against them. Back-up? You mean the Clonetroopers who are "programmed" to kill Jedi? Imagine if that happened.

MACE: "You are under arrest, Chancellor. Captain Appo."

PALPATINE: "It's treason, then. Captain, execute Order 66."

Finally, Palpatine did provide false evidence when he killed the Jedi. You don't think he wouldn't plan for that? You don't think he wouldn't have forseen such a scenario? This is a plan centuries in the making. He can spin it as those senators were part of the conspiracy to overthrow him. He already has the Delegation of 2,000, who are on record of opposing him and his administration. There's a reason Mon Mothma, Bail Organa and the rest didn't oppose him right out of the gate, when he presented his evidence of the Jedi conspiracy.

@The2ndQuest, I think you have the passage form the ROTS novelization about Yoda realizing that he lost long ago.

 

This is the most powerful man in the galaxy, L_B edit: you know better. He has any number of troops/security to call upon.

 

Have you read Fate of the Jedi? The jedi do exactly what you suggest (after killing the dissenter within the order). They fight their way in and take over, works fine. But then they have to run the government and that is not easy. And now everyone hates them, they have few friends and a lot of enemies.

 

Its relevant to consider just how much Palpatine had plotted and planned up until this point.
The moment Anakin warns Mace it really hits him how deep the Dark Lords plan goes. Thats why he says, "We need to act quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive."
Yoda, the only other Jedi who could realistically hold his own against Sidious, is off planet. We don't know how long it would take for him to get back.
Palpatine knows the Jedi know, Anakin told him to his face he would expose him.
They can't feign ignorance and wait for superior numbers (or skill).
They can't reasonably expect Palpatine would be stupid enough to place himself in a public situation that he could not manage if he were exposed (Even if the Jedi bring reporters/senators with them their odds of survival are less than the younglings).

All Master Windu can do is hope that he and the 4 other MASTERS with him are skilled enough to compete with the dark Lord.
We don't know much about Kolar and Tiin in Canon, but Fisto held his own against Grievous and definitely is one of the more skilled members of the council. Master Windu's logic is understandable, it's just incomplete as he has no way of knowing just how powerful Sidious is. Keep in mind the only other Sith he knows of in this timeframe were defeated by a Padawan Learner and a Jedi Knight (Who while having a great potential has not reached it by any means).

Seeing the man's power for himself is what drives Mace to go from "You are under arrest!" To "He's too dangerous to be kept alive!".

 

no it isn't
there is plenty they could have done.