CT The lost pilots and scenes from the Endor space battle in Return of the Jedi

My time went to seeking out B-Wing story boards. The only two that I located (surely there are others) are fortunately publicly accessible.

I.

From:
http://www.propbay.com/original/rou...vi-return-jedi-1983-film-production-4364.html

"
(Con?)ning Tower
SB 63 (1)
B/WINGS PEELING OFF ATTACK FORMATION
2 TIES ZOOMS IN RIGHT
R-L
"


II.

From:
http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-storyboards-the-prequels-book-announced

"
STORYBOARD APR 27 1982
DESCRIPTION EXT. SPACE - DOGFIGHT - TRACKING
TRACKING BACK, low to deck of Rebel Cruiser. TIE comes around the Rebel Cruiser, being chased and fired on by B-Wing. Ships gain through shot.
NOTES: 1 of 2
SHOT & SEQUENCE (indeterminate)
"

 

Hernalt

I've been pretty much been doing the same, but somehow you seem to be more talented to come up with really cool, new stuff.

I.
That's-just-awesome. I'm pretty certain it says "conning tower" (of a Star Destroyer) and qualifies as additional evidence, that one particular scene originally featured this B-Wing attack on a Star Destroyer. Notice the top of the Star Destroyer power (generator) tree in the drawing.

II.
I think this storyboard (at least one thing I located, too) / VFX element originally belonged to this scene from "Chapter Two":

PILOT Hang on, back there,

PILOT Close up formations, Blue Group



LANDO Not bad. I’ll take out the other three

It appears Lando just congratulated the B-Wing pilot from the above storyboard for shooting down at least one TIE fighter and then went after the three TIE Interceptors and around the Rebel "Nebulon" Cruiser (before wondering why the Star Destroyers weren't attacking).

 

Novelization, Chapter 3:

James Khan can differentiate an X-Wing from a Y-Wing. Without digging up the SW77 novelization, and seeing the the SW77 script mentions nothing about Y-Wings being two-seaters, it is probably a safe assumption that Khan saw SW77 in theatres or other means. It would be a remarkable thing for the author of the third novelization in a trilogy of movies to have not seen the first movie.

Chapter 4:

In the Illiadic catalogue of ships, Khan can differentiate an X-Wing from a Y-Wing from an A-Wing. He does not mention B-Wings. Due to the abundance of name generation, this would be where he would name B-Wings once, if ever. Therefore Khan doesn't know about B-Wings at this time of writing and based on resources he has been given. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalogue_of_Ships

Chapter 7:

Khan did not specifically know about B-Wings. Khan could not have known that the unknown B-Wings would also have something called "S-Foils", #AStoryForAnotherTime, which is what he misheard from SW77. In the script for SW77, Red Leader (legibly) says "Lock S-Foils in attack position." So the method by which an author, who is responsible for words, most times, can mistakenly hear "X-foils" and not read "S-foils" is by the simple tried and true means of watching the movie and not reading the ancillary text.

Wedge leads "the" X-Wings that accompany the MF. Wedge is Red Leader. Therefore, the X-Wings accompanying MF are in Red Group. It makes sense that the fastest ship small enough to fit into DSII reactor shafts, yet heavy enough to take damage and carry the potentially crucial ordinance, has an entourage of more than just its own Gold Wing.

Argument made at end.

Chapter 9:

Lando does not order Green Group to follow. Lando is in an understandable state of exuberance. "All fighters" does cover any remaining Green Group.

A "horde" covers Green Group as well. Note also that Khan mentions guidance system before the film reveals the SSD plunge to the DSII. #AStoryForAnotherTime

This can be indicative, where the first fighters (or fastest) of nearby types are the X-Wings, or, this could be authorial shorthand where Khan does not repeat a catalogue of ships for the fighters. The former case is stronger.

If Khan had any sense at all of the size variations between Red Group fighters, Gold Group fighters, Green Group fighters, and Blue Group fighters, what he says here is telling. *Before they try to enter the DSII reactor shaft, Lando is telling Blue Group, whatever fighter type or size that is, to break off from the main group of fighters. IF there was a size distribution in fighter types such that the largest fighters would have the toughest time going through the tunnel, but would serve as juicy bait to draw away TIEs that *can follow into the tunnel, now would be the time for such a hypothetically large type of fighter to help the cause by doing specifically this. By extension of the principle that the Red color group matches up with X-Wings, Blue Group can consistently mean 'Group of fighters just a bit large for trying to maneuver through the DSII reactor shaft when they might have a more useful role'. Incidentally, I would have to look up what is the full wing span of a B-Wing with S-Foils in attack position versus the depth of the hull, minus sensor dish, of the MF. #AnotherStoryForAnotherTime

While Khan knows about A-Wings, he does not mention them going through the DSII while he does mention MF, X-Wings, Y-Wings. The dramatic engine at hand is the size of the tunnel shaft and the relation of the ships going through it. From a writing standpoint, this matter is addressed by accounting for the ships that the author knows might have an issue. The A-Wings are not mentioned and would not necessarily need to be mentioned under this perspective. But Khan knows, or at least knew long enough to write the catalogue of ships, *of the fighter type, A-Wing. The absence of the specific mention is acute right here.

What is curious here and which supports *a logic is the timing and circumstance of the use of the color groups. Lando has received word that some fighters need to get back to the surface. Blue Group's primary mission was *to draw TIEs away from the MF and company going into the reactor shaft. Green Group's primary mission is *to get back to Home One, and, maybe, perhaps, if everything else is equal, get some TIEs to follow them. Echoing some logic used with Blue Group: IF there was a size distribution in fighter types such that the smallest fighters would have the easiest time getting out through the tunnel, but would also serve as *some kind of bait to draw away TIEs that *can follow MF and co further into the tunnel, now would be the time for such a hypothetically small type of fighter to help the cause by doing specifically this.

Lando has ordered Blue Group away with a primary mission, and has just now ordered Green Group away with a primary, and an auxiliary, mission. Only Red Leader and one of his Gold Group, or generalized Gold Wing, remain. The last time "Red Leader" and "Gold" were used together was SW77, which Khan presumably saw. Presuming he differentiated Red Group as X-Wings and Gold Group as Y-Wings, the visual here is pretty unambiguous.

And neither of them are Y-Wings. And it was stated earlier that Wedge lead the X-Wings that accompany the MF, and Wedge is Red Leader of Red Group. If there were X-Wings that accompanied MF, they would not be Gold Group, they would be Red Group. Gold Wing is Gold Group is a Y-Wing. Under the least application of logic, Blue Group under Khan's authorship is composed of fighters that are either the same size or larger than a freighter, or not as maneuverable as a freighter, or not as fast as a freighter, but are juicy targets. Under the least application of logic, Green Group under Khan's authorship is composed of fighters that can get back up through the tight passages of the reactor shaft to return to the aide of Home One at a rate better than other available fighters, while still carrying enough ordinance to affect a SSD. Khan did not need to know specific shapes or sizes of A-Wings or B-Wings. His use of color groups allows the role of Red, Gold, Blue and Green to be filled in. This cannot be said for Gray Group and nothing in the novel further specifies what Gray Group does or what type of fighter it might be.

Now, as for Gray Leader, and Gray Wing. If Lando is Gold Leader, and Gold Wing was following, and Gold Wing was shot down, does that mean that Gold Leader was shot down? No. It means fighters under the leadership of Color Leader, who fly in Color Group, can be identified in part or in sum by Color Wing. So when Gray Leader reports in, his transmission is interrupted, and "Gray Wing" is "completely disintegrated", and then "Gray" (anything) is never mentioned again, this means a single thing.

 

When did filming for the B-Wing pilots occur? Where would a call sheet for B-Wing go? The B-Wing footage in the Lost Rebels reel used green A-Wing suits and one B-Wing helmet. All flight suits were available as of Friday, February 11, 1982 when the Alliance briefing was filmed. The black actor in the B-Wing suit is holding what looks like from this resolution an accurate B-Wing helmet. Nien Nunb has the correct brown leather helmet liner. X-Wing, A-Wing, Y-Wing cockpit shots were filmed starting Monday, March 8, 1982.

Naively, it looks to me as if the Lost Rebels B-Wing cockpit footage was filmed prior to the Alliance briefing, when they did not yet have the B-Wing flight suit worked out. We know they were thinking of going with a white flight suit, which is what the Ten Nunb photographs show. Something clearly didn't work out, there, and yet they hustled enough on a new dark red flight suit to have it ready by February 11.

Something going against this idea, that they went ahead with filming B-Wing cockpit scenes without a dark red B-wing flight suit, is the fact that the lines read back in the case of the B-Wing cockpit (presumably earlier than 2/11), and in the case of the A-Wing and X-Wing (3/8 to start), are so identical. It is not obvious that they may be separated by 3-4 weeks. Theories? For the lines read back across such a distance of three weeks means those lines were laid down *quite awhile before principle photography, which suggests that the story supporting their use was in existence *quite a while (on the order of a few months) and there was no need yet to do anything other than steam straight ahead till they find an iceberg.


From:
http://forum.rebelscum.com/showthread.php?t=1071250&page=7




From:
http://www.starwarsarchives.com/?dt_gallery=1983-continuity-polaroids



Call Sheet No: 25
Stage 5
Fri 2/11 INT. HEADQUARTERS MAIN BRIEFING ROOM
All lead actors
8 Pilots orange, 7 pilots green, 4 pilots dark red, 5 pilots gray
Tim Rose Adm Ackbar
Caroline Blakiston Mon Mothma
Dermot Crowley - Madine

Call Sheet No: 26
Stage 5
Mon 2/15 INT. HEADQUARTERS MAIN BRIEFING ROOM
All lead actors
8 Pilots orange, 7 pilots green, 4 pilots dark red, 5 pilots gray
Tim Rose - Adm Ackbar
Caroline Blakiston Mon Mothma
Dermot Crowley - Madine

Mon 2/15 ADDITIONAL SCENES for Gerald Home Captain/Aide with Tim Rose Adm Ackbar

Call Sheet No: 27
Stage 5
Tue 2/16 INT. REBEL STARCRUISER BRIDGE
Tim Rose Adm Ackbar
Gerald Home Officer/Controller/Aide
Dermot Crowley Madine

Call Sheet No: 28
Stage 5
Wed 2/17 INT. REBEL STARCRUISER BRIDGE
Tim Rose Adm Ackbar
Gerald Home Officer/Controller/Aide
Dermot Crowley Madine

Call Sheet No: 29A (Second Unit)
Stage 5
Thu 2/18 INT. REBEL STARCRUISER BRIDGE
(Cannot determine)
(Tim Rose Adm Ackbar and Gerald Home Officer/Controller very likely)
(Dermot Crowley Madine possible)

Call Sheet No: 30A (Second Unit)
Stage 5
Fri 2/19 INT. REBEL STARCRUISER BRIDGE
Tim Rose Adm Ackbar
Gerald Home Officer/Controller
…

Call Sheet No: 41A
Stage 9
Mon 3/8 X-Wing, Through cockpit onto pilot, Profile X-Wing, Over shoulder of pilot

Call Sheet No: 42A
Stage 9
Tue 3/9 X-Wing, Through cockpit onto pilot, Profile X-Wing

{ Wed 3/10 A-Wing (referenced from 42A) }

Call Sheet No: 44A
Stage 9
Thu 3/11 A-Wing, Y-Wing, Over the shoulder POVs (referenced from 42A)
(This call sheet does not refer to Fri 3/12)

{ Fri 3/12 Fighter cockpit POVs (referenced from 42A) }

 

Hernalt

Already the animated cartoon of the Star Wars Holiday Special suggested that the Y-Wing fighter in its basic configuration would be a two-seater.
Lando and Chewie arrived on Tatooine in the Falcon, Luke and Artoo with his X-Wing.
Therefore Leia and Threepio must have been using a Y-Wing. They built part for it for the sandstorm scene in the studio, yet it's strangely absent from the valley matte painting outside the "cave". Kahn just arrived at a logical conclusion.

Very good catch! Indeed, B-Wings are not even mentioned in the novelization, yet A-Wings are. I do not have an answer and thus have to resort to speculation. I'm under the increasing suspicion that George Lucas wanted to erase as many hints to / awareness of the B-Wings in the final film as possible. Therefore I'm afraid that the Star Wars Storyboards book I should receive today has equally erased all B-Wing hints / storyboards to reflect George Lucas' wishes.

I believe "X-foils" is just a glitch until someone reminded "Hey guys, we said S-foils in the first film, shouldn't terminology be consistent?"

Ackbar said at the beginning "Green Group, stick close to holding sector MV-7." My impression was that Green Group would have covered their retreat and first and foremost had the duty to protect the cruisers. While the novelization suggests that at least the A-Wing of Green Leader joined the reactor attack run, it also suggested that Green Leader had just previously died.
Lando didn't say "All fighters (of all groups that are in the vicinity) follow me" but specified the fighters of those groups he knew must have been in his area, apparently excluding Green Group. This would make sense assuming that Green Leader had already died, then there was a change, i.e. Green Leader participated in the attack run (after Lando's lines had all been recorded) but ultimately "only" took out the super Star Destroyer. But the Green Leader issue is somethink I'd like to talk about much later in this thread (after all the evidence has been presented)

"Before they try to enter the DSII reactor shaft, Lando is telling Blue Group, whatever fighter type or size that is, to break off from the main group of fighters. IF there was a size distribution in fighter types such that the largest fighters would have the toughest time going through the tunnel, but would serve as juicy bait to draw away TIEs that *can follow into the tunnel, now would be the time for such a hypothetically large type of fighter to help the cause by doing specifically this."

Exactly, but I wanted to feature that observation in the later Chapter Eight. If I understood correctly, Ken Ralston was in charge of the space battle above the Death Star, while Richard Edlund's prime job was to visualize the fighters skimming the surface and flying inside the Death Star. Given the huge amount of Edlund's VFX shots Lucas pulled from the final edit, I'm confident that those scenes were shot, but, again, storyboards would probably be the only survivors that could shed some light.

Lando was homing in on the reactor core shaft. Else only Wedge was left, flying just ahead of him, and Gold Wing, just behind. Several TIE fighters still trailed.
These central twistings were barely two planes wide, and turned sharply every five or ten seconds at the speeds Lando was reaching. Another Imperial jet exploded against a wall; another shot down Gold Wing.
And then there were two.

It would appear that James Kahn was confused to some extent. Already at the very beginning "Gray (Leader Standing by)" = disintegration of Gray Wing he suggested that leader and wing are synonymous. He does so again when Green Leader aka Green Wing takes out the bridge of the sSD.
Now, Lando is "Gold Leader" and not "Gold One", so there shouldn't be space for another "Gold Leader". There is another reference to "Gold Leader" in my Chapter Eight, maybe we could postpone this topic for a moment?
My buest guess would be that "Gold Leader" would have correctly been "Yellow Leader" (the Y-Wings at Yavin had yellow markings), but since the only one that was shot down "after an Imperial TIE exploded against the wall" was an X-Wing (Billy Mitchell), we are looking at the possibility that he was "Yellow(-Gold) Leader".

"When did filming for the B-Wing pilots occur?"

That remains the big riddle, aren't we all glad we have the B-Wing Cockpit test footage to prove that B-Wing Cockpits were shot at all? Already you have shown, that first we only knew that X-Wing cockpit scenes were shot, followed by A- and Y-Wing cockpits. I'd bet the B-Wing pilots came in last.

First the B-Wing flight suit was red, then probably changed to avoid confusion with Falcon Copilot Nien Nunb (i.e. white Ten Numb flightsuit). Perhaps there was a costume problem with the Gray pilots and they needed to utilize Ten Numb's white suit, so that the alien B-wing pilots had to wear the green A-Wing flight suits, instead. This would then suggest that Y- and B-Wing cockpits were shot the same day.

The polaroids indicate B-Wing flight suits for "Sc(ene) 132", that's the briefing room scene, I suppose?

 

Maybe "Wing" is short for "Wing Commander" - in real life, aircraft are often grouped into Wings under Wing Commanders.

 

I think that could explain a few things:

Lando is Gold (Group) Leader with at least Gold Squadron, led by "Gold Wing"

Wedge is Red (Group) Leader with at least Red Squadron, possibly let by him, too.

"Maxx" is "Green (Group) Leader, but also "Green Wing" (according to the novelization "Green Leader" and "Green Wing" are in his case synonymous)

However and in this overall context there must also be a "Gray Group" because it has a "Gray (Group) Leader" (who, according to the novelization was also synonymous with "Gray Wing").

ROJ novelization: These central twistings were barely two planes wide, and turned sharply every five or ten seconds at the speeds Lando was reaching. Another Imperial jet exploded against a wall; another shot down Gold Wing.

Nevertheless, we saw only one Rebel fighter being shot down after an Imperial TIE fighter exploded against a wall, this was then "Gold Wing" (seen above), so the EU designation "Red Seven" is unfortunately but ultimately erroneous.

 

Just to clarify a bit, Green Leader, whom the storyboards labeled "Maxx" (or "Mad Maxx") - ie, the A-Wing pilot who destroys the Executor bridge in a suicide run - is the same guy that ended up being called Arvel Crynyd later in the EU.

 

To clarify further. Richard Edlund stated in Cinefex # 13 that it's a "Mad Max" that crashed into the bridge of the super Star Destroyer, in addition we have a storyboard (I save this one for later) of an obviously stressed pilot referred to as "Mad Maxx" (and wearing a corresponding name tag!) but originally he sat in an X-Wing Cockpit, hence the conclusion.

 

I recall in Starship Troopers (novel version) a point being made that when you're short of officers (since they tend to suffer disproportionate casualties in war, they may end up "wearing multiple hats" - that is, a battalion commander will be commanding their own company, platoon, and possibly even squad, all at the same time.

Similar principles might apply to starfighters - with Green Leader commanding Green Group, Green Wing, and even Green Squadron all at once.

Whereas Lando, not being in a starfighter but a freighter - is able to delegate command of Gold Wing while he concentrates on Gold Group.

These days, as we all know, old novelizations are now Legends and can be overridden in newcanon media. However, since Keir Santage:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Keir_Santage

has not yet received a newcanon designation (as opposed to his Legends designation of Red Seven) in the Databank as far as I know, it is possible that he could be "canonized" as Gold Wing.

 

Funny thing is that whoever came up with Red Seven for the ill-fated X-Wing pilot was apparently aware that Red Two and Red Three were already featured in the film and that Red Four and Red Six had been taken because of the novelization, thus seemingly only leaving space to fill the vacant positions of Red Five with "Grizz Frix" (Ronny Cush) and Red Seven with "Keir Santage" (Billy J. Mitchell).

However, had the same author studied the novelization further, he or she might have noticed the novelization passage "Another Imperial jet exploded against a wall; another shot down Gold Wing" which clearly suggested "Keir Santage" to be actually Gold Wing commander, call sign unknown.

Perhaps Pabawan could have a look at the issue and perhaps fix that for the official databank?

 

P.S. just one more thing:

LANDO All wings report in.

In this case we got the "standing by" reports of the individual squadron / wing leaders, which nevertheless also acted as group leaders for the Red, Green and Gray group.
I assume Gold squadron leader would have then correctly responded with "Gold Wing, standing by".

 

Lando was the overall commander and probably the leader of starfighter command. Which is why he is GOLD leader.

 

Yes, he is the leader of "Gold Group" which apparently consists of at least of two squadrons with Gold Squadron being one of these (or there wouldn't be a "Gold Wing" / "Gold Squad Leader" in the first place).

Got the Star Wars Storyboard book today and as expected there's not too much to write home about. The only B-Wing glimpse it provides is that originally not the A-Wings took out the power (generator) tree of the super Star Destroyer, but two B-Wings (and we learn the location of their proton torpedo launchers). So here is Chapter Five, but it would be mostly a wall of text had it not been for Hernalt to provide us with one raw Joe Johnston storyboard that most likely belonged to that "lost" scene:

Chapter Five: Taking out the jamming Star Destroyer

(pilot lines from the “pilot chatter recording sessions” are underlined)

The two armadas, like their sea-bound ancestors, blast away at each other in individual point-blank confrontations. A Star Destroyer explodes. The Rebel victor limps away, its back half alive with a series of minor explosions. The Rebel cruiser manages to move in next to a second Star Destroyer before it explodes completely, taking the Imperial Star Destroyer with it. Cargo ships loaded with charge are set on collision courses with fortress-vessels, their crews abandoning ships. The Falcon and several fighters attack one of the larger Imperial ships.

LANDO Increase power on the front deflector shields. We’re going in.
WEDGE I’m right with you. Close up formations, team.

The rebel fighters lead by the Millennium Falcon begin a sharp dive down the center of the axis of the Star Destroyer.

LANDO Starting attack run on main power tree. (alternate pilot hatter line “We’re starting our attack run on the main power tree”)
GREEN LEADER I copy. Moving into position.
BLUE LEADER Stay clear of their front batteries.
GREEN LEADER It’s a heavy fire zone down there.
BLUE LEADER I’m in range.
WEDGE She’s hurt bad on the left side of that tower. Concentrate on that side.
BLUE LEADER Right with you.
GREEN LEADER I’m losing power!
BLUE LEADER Get clear. You are going to blow!

Green Leader rides his damaged ship into the Star Destroyer’s front batteries. The massive ship is rocked by explosions.

BLUE LEADER (soberly) Thanks.
WEDGE That opens it up for us! The power reactors are just inside of that cargo bay.
BLUE LEADER Follow me! (that’s Lando in the novelization)

All fighters open up on the Star Destroyer’s reactors.

LANDO Direct hit! There she goes.
WEDGE Pull up! Pull up!



The fighters pulled away from the exploding ship. Blue leader is knocked into another Imperial ship by the explosion and is destroyed.
The bridge of the Rebel command ship is filled with victorious shouts of the crew.

ACKBAR The jamming has stopped. We have a reading on the shield.
LANDO Is the shield still up?
ACKBAR I’m afraid so. It looks like General Solo’s unit didn’t make it.
LANDO Until they’ve destroyed our last ship, there’s still hope.

Notice that the scene of the Rebel “Nebulon” cruiser exchanging broadsides with the super Star Destroyer would show in the “new” and next chapter in the final edit, and thus constitute the only known survivor from an otherwise completely lost scene.
The actual novelization provides only minimal insight which pilot said which line, but it appears Mark Johnson guessed or knew more in his shooting script re-creation effort.

This is the second scene in Kahn’s novelization that involves the enigmatic “Blue Leader” (there’s a later reference to somebody called “Blue Wing”). In the final film all references to “Blue Group”, “Blue Leader”, “Blue Squad(ron)”, and “Blue Wing” were deleted along with a variety of VFX footage featuring B-wing-fighters, which many fans have taken as a hint, that the Blue Squad would have consisted mostly of (a) B-Wings manned by (b) Sullustans considering Nien Nunb’s red B-Wing flight suit during the briefing scene and Ten Numb’s white variation which belonged neither to X-Wings, Y-Wings nor A-Wings (which has been proven right by the “pilot chatter footage” that surfaced in 2011, showing only a Sullustan and a Mon Calamari pilot in a B-Wing cockpit, yet in A-Wing flight suits).
Further hints for that theory is one behind-the-scenes production picture showing the large VFX Star Destroyer control tower next to a B-Wing model, and last but not least a Ralph McQuarrie production painting showing B-Wings pulling away from an exploding Star Destroyer.



Why George Lucas decided to delete the entire scene (not in the genuine December 1981 screenplay) is unknown, but there may have been a simple, almost trivial reason: Lando’s Sullustan copilot Nien Nunb spoke Kenyan, thus other Sullustan pilots would have needed to do the same and would have ultimately required subtitles. Perhaps he didn’t consider this as an option so the entire sequence had to go, partially because of such considerations among others.

The novelization makes it clear both Green and Blue Leader died during this attack, yet Green Leader makes another comeback later, so does a “Blue Wing”. Either Green Leader was to be succeeded by another pilot (the death of Blue Group Leader didn’t necessarily imply he was also the leader / wing commander of Blue Squadron) or the deletion of this particular scene allowed the context of the following ones to be changed accordingly.
The scene seemed to feature an interesting VFX element, i.e. a Rebel “Gallofree” transport used like a “fire ship” in the Age of Sail with the crews using their cockpit module as a lifeboat. This would explain the presence of many Rebel transports during the battle from an in-universe point of view.

The scene in the novelization merely hints Imperials reacting to the Rebel fighter attack, but not a scene taking place aboard the bridge of the ill-fated Star Destroyer.

Yet, the film’s cast credits list actor Tom Mannion as “Star Destroyer Captain # 2” (“Star Destroyer Captain # 1” was Pip Miller acting together with Kenneth Colley as Admiral Piett in both scenes aboard the super Star Destroyer), who apparently is usually confused with the uncredited “Sir, we’ve just lost our bridge deflector shield” Alan Flyng.

So where was “Captain # 2”? The novelization depicts the scene aboard the super Star Destroyer a little differently: “Two fleet captains stood behind [Admiral Piett], respectfully silent; also learning the elegant designs of their Emperor. “Have the fleet hold here,” Admiral Piett ordered. The first captain hurried to carry out the order. The second stepped up to the window, beside the admiral. “We aren’t going to attack?”
Quite possible the original scene was shot differently, but apparently “Captain # 2” never had any speaking lines, yet Mr. Mannion seems to disagree.



^^ Imperial Star Destroyer Captain Mannion

Is it possible that there was a bridge scene shot aboard another Star Destroyer, and one that might perhaps have been part of the scene?
As a matter of fact, we do see what could perhaps be the bridge of another Star Destroyer in the final version of Return of the Jedi!



Clever editing suggests that this is the bridge of the super Star Destroyer, but instead of Piett’s controller Jhoff a much older guy sits at the tracking console, and in front of the main window is only one officer in green with a black security officer talking to him. Quite possible that in this shot we do see the back of the long lost “Star Destroyer Captain # 2” played by Tom Mannion, and that this shot originally belonged to the another scene (unless that was the bridge scene when the Emperor’s Super Star Destroyer arrived at the Death Star or still a completely different one).

When the entire scene got discarded, it left a hole between Han telling Chewie to get down from the Scout Walker and the sequence where Han himself pretended to be an AT-ST driver. That was apparently the moment were George Lucas improvised…

 

*applauds*

Amazing work. I especially like the details on the Sullustan attack on the Star Destroyer. Though it's very curious that GL apparently deleted it due to the subtitles the scene would require, given the subtitles used for Greedo in SW 1977 -- much less Jabba in ROTJ. Heck, there was a point where he even considered filming SW entirely in Japanese.

And fireships? I love the idea of the Rebels taking a page from Francis Drake's playbook. I wish that scene was in the film!

 

Regarding the subtitles it's really just a guess on my part.

The difference is this: Both with Greedo and Jabba we had a calm long scene, where subtitles were easy to follow. If I were to imagine this scene with lots of fast paced edits, skipping forth and back between VFX and cockpit shots and one guy suddenly speaking a foreign language with subtitles on top of that, I really don't know how audiences might have reacted to such a scene.

I think I just found another raw storyboard sketch from this scene:

 

As usual, there is way too much to address.

Lt. Hija, Excellent sleuth work on the lack of continuity between those two shots. That bugged the heck out of me when I would do frame by frame analysis. Not only is console guy on the opposite side of the slanted bulkhead from the camera and viewer in each shot, but, what is worse, the bulkhead itself in the prior set is not perfectly centered on the catwalk the way it certainly appears to be in the latter set. Your proposal of a second shooter destroys this mystery. It means that the ISD type in the former shot (which certainly does not have to represent all ISDs) has a slightly off-center bridge entrance, and the SSD in the latter shot has an entrance properly centered on the catwalk.

You'll be pleased to hear that the "SB 54" which you can see in the storyboard concept which you have located, precedes SB 55, which is the fully drawn story board of the Falcon flying low over the fore dorsal of the ISD. I understand that the Storyboard book does not list the SB numbers, at least not on the images themselves.


Available at:
National Air and Space Museum website.

Now, what do you think are the odds that the ISD the MF is approaching in SB 54 and SB 55 is the Communications ISD of the novel?

And then how would you incorporate this following story board? For whatever reason, all this artist's Luke vs Vader storyboards are properly represented with full paperwork and story board number, but this one's SB number I cannot locate. I can only assume that it logically follows closely on to the action being initiated by the Falcon in SB 54 and SB 55.


Available at:
http://www.themovieblog.com/2012/exclusive-interview-star-wars-storyboard-artist-david-russell/


And of course keep in mind that the two B-Wings are in concept SB 63. That could be a little or a great distance from the events of SB 54 and SB 55. I won't know till I round up more SB numbers, and that is a severe undertaking because of resolution and compression etc.

 

Hernalt

Star Destroyer control deck

I guess I don't exaggerate when I say I could fill an entire thread addressing the (half built) studio set bridge complex built for Vader's Executor in ESB and the full built one for the Emperor's super Star Destroyer in ROJ. Did an annotation comment sheet on the ESB studio set blueprint which also served as a base for an in-universe depiction of the complex and several pages study explaining the whys. If you want to have a look at these, send me a PM.

"Unfortunately" they reconstructed the bridge control deck for the Emperor's sSD in ROJ (the production design crew had to bug Lucas for that) based on these ESB blueprints, failing to take into account that combined with the rather "flat" overimposed matte painting, the ESB control deck was suggested to be much "flatter" (and thus compliant with the large bridge window module of the large Star Destroyer conning tower model in contrast to the one they used for the sSD) - but I'm getting carried away, sorry.

Bear in mind that the panoramic view you saw in ESB was "X-Ray Vision", removing the actual overhead ceiling and the actual bulkead frame which the original studio set (shown above) featured.
The recreation of the control deck set in ROJ was rather flawless, a perfect copy of the original but only half built set.

For reasons I cannot explain, the background in the shot of the security officer announcing "We're in attack position, now, sir" is actually the port side alcove (seen to the right in the above image), but the way it's edited suggests it's the back of the control deck.
In a manner of speaking that scene screws twice with audiences' perceptions.

Falcon attacking Star Destroyer

Great catch on the sequence number (I hoped you'd do that). Star Wars Storyboards only features the images, but I need to double check whether the sequence numbers reflect in the comments (hadn't paid proper attention).

I concur, "SB 54" probably belongs to the "I said closer" sequence, yet I noticed something peculiar in the subsequent Storyboard # 55 you provided: There is only the Falcon being chased by two TIE interceptors!

In the actual film frame # 43 of that scene - http://starwarsscreencaps.com/star-wars-episode-vi-return-of-the-jedi-1983/69/ - the Falcon is joined by two A-Wings, one X-Wing and a Y-Wing, suggesting these elements were added later! (with another storyboard you presented, where probably aforementioned X-Wing outmaneuvered a TIE interceptor).

I think the illustrated B-Wing attack on the port side power generator tree of the sSD illustrated in the Star Wars Storyboards could suggest that Ken Ralston prepared a lot of VFX with the last element to be added to be B-wing fighters, but then Lucas intervened and had these elements (ready or not) replaced with shots of A-Wings instead. I'd bet there is not a single storyboard showing A-Wings attacking the sSD's power tree.

In general I think your approach to reconstruct the original chronology of the VFX by putting the storyboard numbers in chronological order is most promising.

 

The Star Wars Storyboards doesn't feature any storyboard numbers at all, there are only codes that indicate particular storyboard artists. Looked up all the ROJ space battle storyboards in various Star Wars books, but even the complete ones mostly don't feature any code or number in the lower right corner, and the few that do are inconclusive (apparently different methodology, it's "OP" for the Death Star arrival scenes at the beginning and "BC" for Endor moon scenes).

So these storyboards from the space battle coded SB 54, 55 and 63 are a great find in terms of chronology, but there's probably not that much more.

 

are those pics in the classic trilogy rare images thread at the top of the page? if not you should put them in there.

 

Edit: Removing methods.

 

(I had not carefully reviewed my hastily submitted post, and now I have....)

I do not own any Rinzler outside of Making of SW77. I have done intensive google imaging of Rinzler Making of Jedi and Rinzler Storyboards. I also see that there is a bit of reported error on Rinzler's part in his Blueprints book with respect to the B-Wing cockpit set. I have not researched that. So far, I have it on the word of three witnesses that the Storyboard book has at least one frame showing the B-Wing attack on The Executor. That I have not seen scanned and presented on the internet, and I am most eager to see it. I know there are a spare few fully presented storyboards with description, dates and codes in the Making of Jedi book. I know the storyboard *Images presented in Storyboards are conveyed as 'complete'. However, interviews with Rinzler reveal he had to cull "thousands" of total ILM/LFL images before he had a product small enough to publish. And my efforts at using google book versions of Making of Jedi give rise to a suspicion that the B-Wing was not a priority of Rinzler's in the Making of Jedi. A spare crucial detail in Making of Jadi, B-Wing scene numbers, was accidentally, apparently, let slip by Rinzler, which I shall be leveraging in time. My process of the last 4 days or so has been to visually locate every available storyboard or fragment related Return of the Jedi as a whole. I am using the discoverability of scene numbers, shot numbers, and story board numbers, none of which are always legible or present of all scenes, to more fully comprehend just the flow of the space battle. Certain photogenic, poignant or iconic story boards hosted by Air and Space Museum are nice enough resolution to get SHOT & SEQUENCE numbers, which yields the sequence. I half suspect the [AA,ZZ][0,99] codes are physical film reels, or "SHOT", and the 999-99 are ultimate intended "SEQUENCE". Many storyboards leave a residue, accessible through means like web archive, of private sale using online film memorabilia sale and auction houses. These are low resolution thumb nail / postage stamps and give up few clues. Yet, through persistence, there are some results in using reverse google image searches on the postage stamps to locate the correct identical storyboards at usable resolution from entirely different sources, often on websites in other languages that would have *Never come up in one of my iterated boolean searches. Presently I am only up to a linear sequence, in terms of SEQUENCE, of eleven space battle storyboards. Probably thirty to fourty other storyboards of the space battle, visible on the Internet, are of fragments too small, or missing portions good enough to identify the actual data. I will have to use the horde of similar-condition Tatooine, Endor Forest and Throne Room storyboards to further resolve the probable SHOT & SEQUENCE on the crap resolution space battle ones. I can say that this process has brought to my attention five things I'd call a discovery. I won't mention them unless/until the flow of the thread hits it. Outside of the two images I have already posted of the B-Wing, I do not yet locate a single third image, of ILM/LFL pedigree, that unambiguously contains a B-Wing.

 

Hernalt

I'll see to next week to have the storyboards of the B-Wing attack on the Emperor's super Star Destroyer (I don't think it's the Executor for various reasons discussed in this JCF thread: http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...death-star-2-blows-up.50037405/#post-53095063 ) uploaded on a website and posted here (already to at least reveal the location of the proton torpedo lauchers).

Interesting hint regarding some cockpit set confusions in Rinzler's Star Wars - The Blueprints book (well, he mistook Vader's hologram pod in the scene with the Emperor for the one in the Executor Operations Room alcove). That's rather odd: It shows the blueprint of a studio set labelled "A-wing fighter" (on the genuine, original plan!), but the entire cockpit configuration rather suggets a B-Wing cockpit "pod" - and from what I can tell it was supposed to be open and longer.

Perhaps the studio set builder received an image of the ILM B-Wing model but thought it showed an A-Wing? As we have seen the A-Wing seemed to exist prior to the B-Wing (no B-Wings mentioned in Kahn's novelization), so perhaps there was some confusion until this fighter design was revealed to be a B-Wing?



Production stamp suggests this set was built or ready by late January 1982.

Here is a B-Wing image which IMHO makes it abundantly clear that the above blueprint shows a B-Wing cockpit (that has already rotated to some extent, indicating the rotating abilities of the cockpit pod in the original VFX model).



Here is the photographic montage based on McQuarries in-production painting shown here earlier:

 

Lt. Hija
Excellent, period, image. The following is a transcription of the details so that it is Internet searchable.

Orthogonal projection from Right
CL (axis of angular momentum)
(14.1)
'FLOOR LEVEL'
(12)
'INSIDE SURFACES ABOVE CL ONLY' - see footnote a.
(11)
'NOT REQUIRED - DO NOT BUILD'
(10)
'DRESSING - TUBES PIPES GREEBLES fx' - see footnote c.
'MAKE PROVISION FOR FORWARD/BACKWARD MOVEMENT' INCLUDING SEAT
(9)
'THIS EDGE NOT REQUIRED'
(7)
'SIGHTING XXXXX - TO XXXXXX DETAIL'
'EXISTING TRANSITION SEAT FROM INTERIOR SHUTTLE'
NB! CUT DOWN TO FIT [MAKE NEW BASE] DO NOT FIX DOWN! (notice where seat goes below floor level)
(6)
'HAND CONTROLS TO XXXXXX DETAIL'
(4)
'TO BE REMOVABLE'
(3)
{} 'DRESSING ETC'
'SECTION ABOUT CL'
(1)
'SEE FULL SIZE SECTIONS [DRAWING NUMBER]
'BUILD TO CIRCULAR PROFILE ABOVE CL ONLY!'
CL
'DO NOT BUILD' (below CL)
'ALL EXTERIOR CONSTRUCTION TO BE PAINTED MATT[sic] BLACK'

Orthogonal from Front
'THIS PROFILE IS NOT REQUIRED'
'SIDE SUFFICE TO BE SIMPLIFIED THUS' (see flat vertical support panels)
'FLOOR LEVEL'
'SECTION A-A'

Orthogonal from Top
' 'LIGHT' SLOTS [XXXXXXXX]
(12)
'DRESSING ETC'
(9)
'APPLIED DRESSING TO XXXX XXXXXXXX ETC' ('instruments'?)
(7)
'EXISTING 'TRANSITION' CHAIR'
(6)
'DRESSING ETC'
(3)
PLAN [SECTION]
(1)

a. Review the Lost Rebels Sallustan B-Wing pilot footage. He is significantly taller than the Mon Calamari, and his footage reveals substantial background detail, above the pilot's chair and to the left, that can be resolved by parallax. Not well lit, doesn't pop. But that cavity goes back, and it has 'dressing'. I presume based on this blueprint that it goes back four, five, six? feet behind the pilot's head.
b. This set of projections demonstrates that the cockpit can rotate fully so that the fuselage is either on the right hand side, as seen in the front view, or, on the left side, as seen in the top down view.
c. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeble ; "Etymology The earliest recorded use of the term "greeble" found to date was by those working on the special effects for Star Wars — the group who would later become Industrial Light and Magic. They also described this design method as "guts on the outside"."

 

Hernalt

Yes, your observation looks right and the B-Wing cockpit studio set apparently extends to the back. Looks like a lot of us have taken the "closed" cockpit of the VFX model too serious, as evident in the depiction of the B-Wing cockpit in the animated series Rebels':



And now, on to Chapters Six and Seven:

Chapter Six: The space battle scene that wasn’t there

To fill the hole left by the deletion of the scene in Chapter Five, Lucas cannibalized material from earlier scenes and edited it together to create a new scene (which therefore and understandably is not featured in the novelization at all, because it was never scripted):

1. The shot of the large Star Destroyer Control Tower model with a Rebel Star Cruiser passing it overhead (point of origin unknown, perhaps from Chapter Five)
2. Space battlefield panorama from Falcon cockpit’s point of view (POU)
3. Falcon cockpit with Lando saying “Watch out. Squad at .06” (POU, line not in novelization)
4. Profile view of Gray Leader “I’m on it, Gold Leader” followed by Y-Wing point of view and TIE Interceptor being shot down (taken from Chapter Two)
5. Wedge’s cockpit “Good shot, Red Two” (taken from Chapter Two)
6. Rebel “Nebulon” Cruiser and super Star Destroyer exchanging broadsides (taken from Chapter Five, scene description taken from Chapter Five, too)
7. Falcon cockpit point of view passing Rebel Star Cruiser overhead (POU)
8. Closeup of Lando saying “Now…come on, Han, old buddy. Don’t let me down” (taken from Chapter Two)
   
   (Frames # 94 thru 134: http://starwarsscreencaps.com/star-wars-episode-vi-return-of-the-jedi-1983/73/ )
   
   Chapter Seven: The shield is down
   
   An Aid rushes up to Ackbar.
   
   AID Sir, the shield around the Death Star has lost power. (a captain in the novelization)
   
   Ackbar looks up at the planet and Death Star
   
   ACKBAR They did it
   
   He rushes over to his com-link
   
   (information from additional scene 125 A from February 15, 1982 in italic)
   
   Ackbar, sitting in his control chair, speaks into the radio.
   
   ACKBARThe shield is down! Commence attack on the Death Star's main reactor.
   (novelization: All fighters commence attack on the Death Stars’ main reactor. The deflector shield is down. Repeat. The deflector shield is down!)
   
   LANDO I see it. We're on our way. Red Group, Gold Group, Blue Squad -all fighters follow me.
   (laughs) Told you they'd do it!
   
   The Falcon, followed by several smaller Rebel fighters, heads toward the unfinished superstructure of the Death Star.
   
   Compared to other scenes there’s not too much noteworthy here, except the scene was originally a bit longer and had Lando call the Blue Squadron for help. But Blue Squad’s footage was apparently deleted from the subsequent scene, so there was no reason to keep the original line, as ultimately only five fighters were shown following Lando into the Death Star.