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The Mandalorian The Mandalorian 2.07 - Chapter 15 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Current and Future Shows' started by Todd the Jedi , Dec 10, 2020.

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Grade the Episode

Poll closed Dec 18, 2020.
  1. 10

    18.8%
  2. 9

    37.0%
  3. 8

    26.8%
  4. 7

    13.0%
  5. 6

    3.6%
  6. 5

    0.7%
  7. 4

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. 3

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 1

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. dick rodgers

    dick rodgers Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 23, 2016
    I appreciate you laying this all out in detail. It appears I missed quite a bit in regards to the Fobs last season. I think I felt it wasn’t adequately explained and thus started writing it off as a plot point. I look forward to a Season 1 rewatch once the finale airs this week for s2. I guess if all this is true, my question is why the hell do the fobs start going off once you get near your target?? Does this imply DNA and if so does this imply that every Fob for every target means you have the targets DNA? I personally feel that’s clunky but I guess it’s better than what I thought initially, that being that the fobs really don’t make a lick of sense. I’m getting there Bor help me through!
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
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  2. cerealbox

    cerealbox Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 5, 2016
    Which makes me wish Disney was edgier and instead of the pirates being safe expendable blue male aliens, they would be male/female human looking.
     
  3. Christopher Blair

    Christopher Blair Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    All I'm saying is it seems like Jon Dave and the rest of the teams from all the shows are trying to connect the entire universe. going from before the prequel trilogy all the way through the sequel trilogy. Including video games, Books, tv, and movies. that's the best thing that Mandalorian has done to me is just exploring the lore. For instance in an interview with Ewan McGregor and Debra chow they said they're going to reshow order 66 and Anakin at the Jedi Temple in the obi wan show. To me that means we will see grogu in the temple being Spirited Away at the last second before Anakin can get to him, connecting the universe even more.
     
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  4. BadAcrobat

    BadAcrobat Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Gave it a 10. Not as good as Chapter 13....that would have scored a 23/10 and was the best in the entire series for me. But 15 was excellent none-the less. Excellent, EXCELLENT season - I have not given any episode less than a 9.
     
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  5. yodarulzall

    yodarulzall Jedi Grand Master star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Because Mayfield had the cylinder. Being ex imperial is the best Din has as far as a lead goes. So getting him off that rock was really the only thing that mattered. Once that's done is when mayfeld gives the details. He knows the operation and what needs to be done.
    Din didn't have the code cylinder before he was in the lunchroom.
     
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  6. Ricardo Funes

    Ricardo Funes Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Actually, the concept art during the credits has at least one picture of them as human looking.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
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  7. sith_rising

    sith_rising Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2004
    One thing's for sure: I would have been in the Empire lol
     
  8. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Bor Mullet knows the truth. ;)

    As for why they beep when in close proximity, I guess it could have to do with a DNA signature in the target that matches the DNA code in the fob, or the fob scans the area (with the help of satellites?) and gets a chain code match. That’s not explained, but doesn’t really matter, as there are no plot consequences. Whereas the mistaken idea that fobs work from anywhere in the galaxy would have massive plot consequences. All the way down to invalidating the need for bounty hunters entirely.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
  9. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    You could say that about the OT, though. Or the PT. Or the ST...

    ...or Star Trek, or James Bond, or just about any other fictional action-adventure story. I mean, it seemed pretty obvious to me going into the episode that the only person in their group who was in an danger of dying was Mayfeld; Boba and Shand have already "died", so killing them off agian would be redundent, and Cara's basically a member of what amounts to the series main caste.

    I had'nt considered that Cal would be the Jedi to show up; my money's been on Luke, but Cal actually makes a great deal of sense as well - especially if my theory that he and Cera helped Luke reform the Jedi is correct (with Luke's temple being on Bogano).

    Perhaps the popularity it obtained with children in the years after the OT came out led him to believe it was - not so much "I intended it to be for kids" and more "kids seem to really like it, so it must be more for them?"; or simply it was just watching his own children consume it? (Amanda was two when ROTJ came out, and Katie had'nt even been born yet).

    I'm not knocking GL either (that goes for this discussion and varius others). I think he's a bit overrated as a filmmaker, gets more credit then he deserves sometimes for the sucessess of the OT (I credit Maria and the editors for the first films sucess more then Lucas himself, even though the creative vision was his, and I think peaple to often tend to forgot the contributions of Brackett, Kasdan, Kershner and Marquand when it comes to ESB and ROTJ) and their are other writers who I think did SW "better" (in a totally subjective sense, of course) but I don't hate him or think he's bad or did a bad job*; even ATOC, the only film he made I actually dislike, I respect as a work of art becuase he made it according to a sense of personal artistic vision that he did'nt compramise to please peaple.

    And Indiana Jones is great too; on the flip side from overlooking Brackett and co.'s contributions to the OT in favor of lumping all the praise on Lucas I think peaple tend to forget how much influance he had on that series in favor of just crediting it all to Spielburg.

    *"bad" being relative here; I blame a lot of the PT's failings on weak writing/directing on his part (everyone has their bad days, and the critism in this sense is leveled mainly at ATOC and the overarching romance subplot throughout the three films - in general I've found as time goes by that TMP and ROTJ have more solid scenes/performences then weak onces) but he's not Tommy Wiseau or Ed Wood, lol.

    That is a possibility as well; and heck, pirates and resistence fighters are'nt mutally exclusive - their were pirates fighting the British in Andrew Jackson's army in the War of 1812 (granted that's not a "resistence," but it does show that pirates are willing to fight for a "side" if given a proper modivation - in the case of Jackson's privateers, the promise of a pardon).

    Presumably it's becuase Mayfeld had inside knowledge of Imperial installations (they would'nt have even know what planet to go to or even what to do if it was'nt for him, and if Mando had made it into the mine alone - which he would'nt have, becuase he can't drive the transport and defend it at the same time - he would'nt have known where to go, as it was Mayfeld who pointed him in the direction of the canteen).

    And also this too...[face_peace]

    What does it matter what species they are? It's "edgy" if it's Humans killing other Humans? If so you don't need to change the pirates to get that in the episode, since they killed far more Imperials and they were all (presumably) Humans.

    Honestly making them Humans would be even worse in my opinion, becuase in a galaxy so large I already strains credulity that Mando's whole time is made up of Humans and so is all of the Empire's personal (instintutionalized racism nonewithstanding).

    No lie is safe!

    Oh what, you think you can just post a high-rez picture of Ming-Na Wen and get a like? What, you think I'm that easy?

    Well...
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2020
  10. Boba Fett.

    Boba Fett. Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 14, 2020
    [​IMG]
     
  11. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Oh, you tease...:p
     
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  12. Jedi Master Chuck

    Jedi Master Chuck Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2013
    VIDEO REVIEW



    This was an amazing episode which worked for me on every level. I feel like this is Star Wars firing on all cylinders. Right off the bat, I want to say how impressive the scale of the sets were in this episode. Often Mandalorian episodes will be confined to a single planet. This episode begins on the scrap planet Karthon, which reminded me a lot of the planet where Savage found Maul in the fourth season of The Clone Wars. But the majority of the episode takes place on a jungle world called Morak.


    Including two visually dense planets like this must have required a lot of resources in terms of visual effects and set design, so it just shows how much the scale of the show has expanded in the second season.


    I was already excited for Bill Burr’s return, but was still pleasantly surprised by his role and performance in this episode and I’m really hoping to see more of him in future seasons.


    It was nice to see that Mayfeld seemed genuinely concerned about Grogu when he found out he was taken. It just proves that no matter how jaded, it’s impossible not to love baby Yoda. When the title card first appeared, revealing the name of the episode as ‘The Believer’, I assumed it meant to Mayfeld and as such was expecting him to betray Mando in some way. And I’m very happy I was wrong.


    There was a moment near the start of this episode which felt sort of surreal – the very fact that we have a live action series with Temuera Morrison as Boba Fett, transporting this team across the Galaxy on a mission to rescue Baby Yoda in Slave I is proof we aren’t living in the darkest timeline.


    I feel like the fresh coat of paint on Boba’s armor signifies the beginning of a new phase in his life and I’m here for it.


    I believe this is the first time the Empire in the post-RotJ era has been referred to on screen in canon as ‘The Imperial Remnant’, which further reinforces my belief that we’re building to an adaptation of Heir to the Empire.


    I loved the joke where Boba says, “They might recognize my face,” when Mando suggests he infiltrate the base.


    I think this episode does a great job of adding nuance and shades of gray to the Galactic civil war, particularly from the perspective of people like Mayfeld at the bottom of society. Of course the forces at the top which motivate this conflict are distilled forces of good and evil – the Jedi and the Sith channeling a cosmic power.


    Yet the Empire itself emerged from the Republic – Palpatine was the democratically elected leader of the Senate before the death of democracy was met with thunderous applause. Mayfeld says that whether it’s the Empire or the New Republic, and by extension the Old Republic or the Separatists, though those bodies are not mentioned by name, one group of people rule and another are ruled.


    Of course this argument doesn’t negate the fact that one ruling institution can be built upon more moral or just principles than another. His argument essentially boils down to the idea that for people at the bottom, governing intent matters little, that people only show what they really believe when forced to make a stand and that principles are invariably malleable.


    The closer the point of view characters in the story are to the central conflict, the clearer the moral outlook of the two sides becomes. The Mandalorian is a story about characters living on the fringe of society, far removed from the bright center of the Galaxy, where the picture becomes more gray.


    After seeing Mando wield a staff, I’m really looking forward to seeing him fight hand to hand with his beskar spear which we now know can deflect lightsabers.


    For a moment, I rejoiced to see two TIE fighters arrive to rescue Mando – but wait, aren’t these the bad guys? The Empire? And the raiders who were trying to blow up this transport didn’t know Mando and Mayfeld were undercover. We see that the local villagers were in pretty dire straits, so for all we know, their mission was entirely justified. This would seem to exemplify and support the very point Mayfeld was making to Mando earlier in the episode. This was a really clever way to make the audience identify with Mayfeld and understand his perspective.


    I had wondered if Mando would eventually break this vow as he learned more about Mandalore’s history. But here he breaks the creed, not for an ideological reason, but to save Grogu which proves this paternal bond he has formed is now the most important thing in Mando’s life, even moreso than the way of the Mandalore.


    I thought the scene where Mando, Mayfeld, and ‘The Believer’ have a drink did a great job of building tension as Mayfeld grows increasingly agitated by the officer’s callous indifference to the barbarous acts he demanded of his soldiers, the suffering of victims, and the lives of his subordinates lost in the process.


    Pedro Pascal’s performance here was great as he was able to communicate nonverbally Mando’s discomfort and growing concern as Mayfeld continues to escalate the conversation. I thought it was fascinating that the officer failed to notice Mayfeld’s obvious distaste for his exaltation of Imperial virtue. He was a true believer in the cause – people don’t want freedom, they want order, to be ruled.


    I was honestly worried Mayfeld wasn’t going to make it out alive, but was again pleasantly surprised when he and Mando successfully made their way to the roof for extraction.


    This episode did a great job of portraying the characters as nuanced, with complex individual moral perspectives on the galactic conflict, through both dialogue and action. Even the audience is made to cheer for the Empire when they rescue Mando and celebrate the defeat of the raiders despite the fact that they were attempting to blow up the rhydonium which we later learn is intended to commit a genocidal act.


    Of course, we learn through Mayfeld’s conversation with the officer what we already know – that despite the reality that any political body is prone to corruption, that no utopian end state awaits the reinstitution of democracy with the New Republic, the Empire is unquestionably, the supreme, absolute worst; a force of evil – and he is forced to make a moral stand rather than defend inaction by pointing to the imperfection of the opposition.


    I always thought the visual and sound effects used for the sonic charges in he dogfight between Jango and Obi-Wan in Episode II were some of the best in Star Wars, so it was awesome to see that reappear in The Mandalorian.


    I loved the scene at the end of the episode where Mando repeats Gideon’s own words. Mando says that Grogu means more to him than Gideon could possibly know and those words really resonate after this week’s episode – for two seasons, Mando has adhered rigidly to his creed, but here he bends, then breaks the rules about showing his face in order to have a chance to rescue Grogu.


    Overall, this was a fantastic episode. Rick Famuyiwa did an excellent job both writing and directing. I loved the team Mando assembled in this episode and would love to see them go on future missions together. I’m a big fan of Agents of SHIELD, so it’s great to see Ming Na Wen I’m glad Fennec will be around for at least one more episode. I already spent much of last week’s review expressing just how impressed I was with Boba Fett’s return and I again love what Temuera Morrison is doing with the character.


    It’s always great to see Cara Dune and Mando team up and it now seems she’ll be receiving her own spinoff in Rangers of the New Republic. Though she hasn’t been confirmed to star in the series, the fact that it is billed as a concurrent spinoff to the Mandalorian means it’s highly likely. I’ll be talking about the newly announced series at length in a separate video, so for now, I’ll just add that Bill Burr could make a great addition to the cast.


    There were a number of spinoff series announced and there have been rumors about Boba also receiving his own show. I really like what he’s bringing to The Mandalorian and he seems inherently tied to the story of Din Djarin. I’d be okay with it going either way, but personally, I hope he and Fennec can continue to play a big role in this series before moving on to their own.


    Oh and Mayfeld attempts to pull Mando away from the conversation with the believer officer to go fill out TPS Reports. Hope they got the memo on the new cover sheets.


    Interestingly, this is the first episode in the series where Grogu didn’t appear in a single scene. He was left in a pretty desperate state at the end of the sixth episode, and I’m really anxious to see him rescued.


    I’m excited for the season final next week. I wonder if Mando will recruit any additional allies before taking on Moff Gideon. As I said in the previous review, Bo Katan would seem to be a viable candidate.


    And of course, there’s the likelihood of the Jedi character Grogu signaled appearing at the eleventh hour.


    I just want to say again how impressed I was by Bill Burr’s performance here. This season has been great for both guest stars and guest directors. On that subject, I don’t think the director for next week’s episode has been announced yet, so I’m excited to see who that might be.
     
  13. DarthFixxxer

    DarthFixxxer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    I hadn't thought of it to THAT level of detail, so thank you for that.
    However, nothing about imperial security bothered me. It DID seem too specific to crack.
    And the face scan doesn't need to be an authentication measure.
    It's just one more layer of security and that's that.
     
  14. Noir Deux

    Noir Deux Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2015
    So, I’m not American and I don’t know the career of this Bill Burr guy, but my only problem with this episode was him, in the sense that he as a character doesn’t feel Star Warsy, he doesn’t blend with the cast or the environment, and it feels like he’s doing cosplay or a spoof SW scene. Also having a shaved head and a short beard doesn’t help because it looks like the average dude on the street not on a space show.

    The other time I felt this was with the Tatooine lady that has the robots and babysits Grogu when Mando is there, the character doesn’t blend well and feels like an outsider in SW.
     
  15. Maythe14thBeWithYou

    Maythe14thBeWithYou Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2014
    I really liked the development of Mayfeld. I also agree, Grogu not being present will make his rescue all the more epic.
     
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  16. Darth_Diealot

    Darth_Diealot Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2020
    Again, another great episode. Gave it a 9; what kept me from giving a 10 was the fact that those imperial forces don't really pose a threat to Din and his friends. It became pretty obvious that while they were able to kill all those pirates/rebels attacking Dins transport, they completey failed again at hitting any of the good guys. I am not favouring any of the main protagonists to get killed, but why not have someone wounded?

    Highlight to me was Mayfeld in this episode. I didn't really know Bill Burr before Mandalorian, and I didn't really see anything special in the Season 1 episode with Mayfeld, but this time he nailed it. Funny side note: Mayfeld looks exactly like a guy from my gym. From now on, I will be working out with Mayfeld (once the gyms open up again here...)
     
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  17. PintoDog32

    PintoDog32 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2020
    Spolier alert: Bill Burr is actually the guy at your gym! ;)

    Jokes aside, I felt like the "pirates" were angry locals myself. They weren't trying to commandeer the juggernauts, I think all the wreckage of other juggernauts before the attacks show this too. They were trying to blow it up, and I dont think they were trying to collect scrap either.

    Kinda reminds me of the OLD Twlight Zone episode where this old lady lives in a little old farmhouse all by herself and starts getting attacked by little robot machines. You root for the lady to kill all the little boogers.

    Then at the end of the episode, you find out that the little robots are actually American astronauts that have landed on a foreign planet. Funny how perspective works. I felt bad after the episode, lol.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2020
  18. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Clearly the “pirates” were not trying to commandeer the vehicles. They were blowing them up. Sabotaging the supply lines. Very likely because they were native aliens against the mining operation, and not “pirates.” Din just didn’t know what else to call them.
     
  19. DarthFixxxer

    DarthFixxxer Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Why did you feel bad? I would still root for the old lady, even after the plot twist. If they can do it in Texas, Arkansas and Alabama, the aliens would surely have the same rights?

    Which makes some comments that I read all the more unfortunate. Such as "they showed the human side of the stomtroopers" or "the truth is not black or white, it's gray". Yeah ok, but the stormtroopers are the bad guys. And the people whose planet and crops and natural mineral resources get exploited are the victims.

    I wish Famayiwa had shown that part a little better. I was rooting for Din Djarin to get rid of the "pirates" too because he needs to save Grogu, but the ends don't justify the means. It was very weird seeing those natives being presented as brute dumb idiots and essentially villains.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2020
  20. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    I don’t understand this surprise at Bill Burr acting well this episode. His acting was great last season too. This time he simply had an arc that made him sympathetic, unlike last time. The guy’s a proper actor.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2020
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  21. Jabberwock2137

    Jabberwock2137 Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2013
    In the concept art at the end the 'Pirate' bore a striking resemblance to a cetain P Dameron.......
     
  22. Christopher Blair

    Christopher Blair Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    bill burr rags on star wars, for the record this was yrs ago.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2020
  23. K2771991

    K2771991 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2019
    He's only Human - he's entitled to be wrong every now and then:p

    Not everyone in Star Wars is going to look like they just walked out of the Mos Eisley Cantina or the Outlander Club.

    As someone who has family in Massachusetts and has spent a great deal of time there growing up, I can fully attest that Bill Burr is repersentative of many a average person in his native state.

    In fact, I'm not entirely convinced I've never sat behind Bill Burr at the annual Rutland 4th of July concert:p

    I've only watched the episode once so far, but I thought they were originally trying to steal the gas (they start pulling out the tanks) and then switched to destroying it when it became clear they could'nt have it.

    We don't know that the pirates are from the planet, and even saying their not pilots is just speculation that conflicts with dilogue in the episode itself (though it could very well be true); heck, just wanting to destroy the fuel does'nt mean they have altruistic motives in doing so.
     
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  24. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    regardless of where they go Mayfeld from here, he reminds me of Cypher from Matrix. But my initial feelings after watching the episode. was like they had cast the most obnoxious actor to go do a very bad and equally obnoxious southern drawl-like accent, put him in a quasi-Nazi uniform all for some lame attempt to make up the for the fact that Mayfeld himself as a character is badly written and maybe shock value scene. With Mayfeld sniping the fuel to blow up the base just after having given a speech about how many of the soldiers die for a cause and they have families and that higher ups don't care for is just beyond tone deaf its psychopathic. They kinda tried that with Finn back in 2015, who had no problems blasting away fellow stormtroopers .
     
  25. Vader Bob

    Vader Bob Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2020
    Almost looks like a group of... New Republic Rangers.