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Lit The many Medieval Times in the GFFA

Discussion in 'Literature' started by ColeFardreamer, May 17, 2023.

  1. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 24, 2013
    Aesthetic wise, SW draws from every era and mixes them up some. But we have some more clearcut aesthetics married to specific eras. Like the egyptian look to the Red Sith species and Great Hyperspace war times in general, more medieval TOTJ era including the Mandalorian Wars and even if more spacey scifi lookwise, KOTOR games. The NSW have lots of medieval influences, be that in Lord Kaans Brotherhood and the Knight Errant era before, be that earlier.
    Then we have also earlier times that are rather post-medieval marrying medieval looks with antique and even biblical themes, like Lord and Lady Corvax and their peers.
    Recently the High Republic brings back medieval elements while more leaning into the age of exploration, colonisation, industrial revolution and the like.
    PS: The Ordu Aspectu as a quite early era looking medieval as well should not be left out here.

    With SW leaning towards but not adhering fully to a paralell to real world history (Sumerian Rakata, 5000BBY egyptian Sith, 4000BBY medieval Jedi, 3000BBY late medieval NSW, 2000BBY medieval giving way to a renaissance 1000BBY etc. till 400BBY High Republic etc.) with DotJ being biblical times, IceAge/Flood Era married with antiquity and mythology.

    How should the rather lengthy medieval GFFA from 4000-1000BBY be visually be divided into real world medieval eras and looks? Which era fits best for a medieval inspired theme? What other real world historic eras with distinctive looks are still missing and need a placement like Baroque GFFA or Victorian GFFA?

    When will, if ever, we see the Jedi Temple be a used holy Mountain, an evolving temple on/in it, a city around it, before being built over as Jedi Temple in 4000BBY.

    And why does Lord Corvax look more like Cesare Borgia than Jesus despite pulling visually from Borgia's fake White Jesus depiction?

    When would an inuniverse King Arthur and Round Table be placed if adapted SW style? ST had medieval influences, abandoned game ideas featured such Council ideas for a 500ABY future, yet another medieval influenced time aside the pre-Saga ones.

    Will or does Dawn of the Jedi, as biblical era, pull from antiquity or which eras? Will it also be arthurian? Does it align with the real world history paralell or might it mix some up? The comics were all over the place, the upcoming movie may settle for a definitive influence.
    With Ach-to's setting and look fitting into the ST's medieval theme, an early medieval athurian, late antiquity theme may actually work as most biblical art and depiction is from the medieval eras and retroactively defined biblical visually. Also Lucas early scripts had elements of all that when talking about "the Skywalker" who discovered the Force and taught his first students.

    Subsequent Excalibur, Holy Grail, sang real, holy bloodline themes could all come up if going fully arthurian, which fits also the Mortis arc's depictions of the Father (Grail Knight look-ish married to Merlin) and the World between Worlds as the Avalon-esque realm beyond the world, beyond shadows of fairies and other magical lifeforms, the Force, Hyperspace, the Wood betwee the Worlds, etc.

    Last but not least, the linguistic progression from the first "to use the Force to walk the sky", to Purgill/Dragon riders across Hyperspace/the Force and the web between the worlds and realms, aka Daragons (Pendragons), to later Sunriders and Skywalkers, would be an epic progression fitting well and come full circle namewise with the extended dynasty and Saga ending what began a long time ago.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2023
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  2. Lord Sith Harloxzz

    Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 27, 2016
    I think the reason of why there are so many Medieval Ages in Legends is because of the Devastation of the Wars in KOTOR 1 the Technology was very similar to the Prequels Era 3000 Years before TPM and KOTOR 1 takes place some decades after the Exar Kun War in SWTOR Era the Technology seems to be even Superior to the Prequels Era but a few Millennia later during the New Sith Wars the Galaxy seems to be Medieval again maybe because thanks to the Long War they lost all the Technology of SWTOR Era in the OT the Galaxy seems to have lost Technological Advances from the Prequels Era maybe thanks to the Restrictions of the Empire and during the New Republic Era and Legacy Era the Galaxy is once again have a Technology similar to the Prequels Wars are the reason of why Technological Advances are lost and the reason of why Medieval Ages are created
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2023
  3. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 24, 2013
    I see your point but given your logic, the technological high level of the TOR MMO would be even higher at the beginning of the NSW with Darth Ruin as in between no (major) war decimates the techlevel despite other shenangians. That would mean if TOR is PT equivalent that the NSW beginning have higher techlevels as the Movie Saga. Intriguing.

    Still, the NSW point of loosing tech and accessability is rather the turning off of BoSS, Holonet and other services and hyperlane maintenance that separates the galaxy from other tech sources and required sources of building material. Thus the logic works for the NSW DARK AGE setback, other wars previously though are known to not have used these harsh measures or at least not known do have used them. Thus the setback needs to be explained another way. Which?
    Usually war drives tech forward a big deal, especially in weapons development, and that later gets after the war translated to non-war uses with spaceage coating in houshold items and whatever.

    Seems more a Genoharadan-esque manipulation of techlevels to stay constant via assassination and political and war maneuvering is in play rather than the same setback in every war, or same advance in every war. The Sith are not the Genoharadan-esque techlevel cappers, who though thus is the GFFAs Illuminati? Canto Bight-ian families and rich folk? Secret Cults that worship the Rakata still? Freemason-esque Space-Jews that deal with the galaxy while the Space Buddhists battle it out against the Space Muslims and Space Christians? (lol don't take that sentence too seriously, no offences meant!).
     
  4. Lord Sith Harloxzz

    Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 27, 2016
    Knight Errant Comics and Novel occurs 32 Years before Darth Bane during the New Sith Wars during Knight Errant there was still Good Technology in the Galaxy maybe everything changed when Lord Kaan became the leader of the Sith in Jedi vs Sith Comics and in Darth Bane Path of Destruction the Galaxy seems a bit Medieval maybe only Coruscant was not affected by the War
     
  5. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 24, 2013
    Well Coruscant was affected, but if technologically? OneCanon, DisneyCanon both have it attacked and taken for a time (Sith Temple and all) even if in Legends it didn't. But as a world requiring lots others to survive, I wonder how Coruscant fared, not just technologically to function but also given being cut off from some if not a majority of outlier supporting worlds.
     
  6. Reepicheep775

    Reepicheep775 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 27, 2019
    Disregarding aesthetics, if we take the Galactic Republic/Empire to analogous the Roman Republic/Empire, then the Star Wars equivalent of the Middle Ages should happen after the Empire's destruction in RotJ because the Middle Ages rose out of the ashes of Rome. You could argue the era of Imperial warlords is a good analogue to the petty kings of the Early Middle Ages. They are eventually wiped out or reformed into the Imperial Remnant while the New Republic assumes control over the galaxy, and that is where the analogy breaks down. It basically skips the High and Late Middle Ages (plus Early Modern Period etc.) and goes straight to the formation of modern democracies.

    You could even argue that the Legacy comics are a late version of the High Middle Ages because you could make some comparisons between medieval kings and the Fel Dynasty. They are both autocratic rulers that, at least on paper, are supposed to bring peace and justice to their lands rather than being transparently evil Sith Lords. The reality in both, of course, is more complicated.

    It's possible, though highly unlikely imo, that the New Jedi Order time period could be the Disney canon version of the High Middle Ages (again, aesthetics aside - the High Republic is obviously that in terms of style) if the New Republic isn't re-established post-TRoS.
     
  7. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 24, 2013
    @Reepicheep775
    While you could put a Roman analogue to the Saga, SW always drew from multiple eras and mixed them up not just aesthetically but also storywise etc. so there is no clear this era is that era in SW, always multiple influences. Have you read the magnificient book "Star Wars and History"? It is a treasure trove in that regard and certainly helps a lot.
    But I agree that post ROTJ works in a way as the transition from Antiquity to early Middle Ages, especially with the STs King Arthurian vibes. If we take the Democracy stuff, which fails in both Legends and Canon to a reformed benevolent Empire or a yet to be detailed post New Republic government in the Disney Canon, we can take the Arthurian vibes as the late Early Middle Ages that will devolve into the petty kingdoms and crusade middle ages after the ST only, or after the Legacy comics in Legends with the Triumvirate kinda being doomed to break apart one day like f.e. the Franconian Empire splintered into three factions/sons that later evolved into France, Germany+Italy and the Saxon-Austrian eastern part. But that depends what they choose for a post ST galaxy, splintered or united or else.

    DisneyCanon so far rather pulls heavily for the middle age vibe in the High Republic which is a combo of Medieval Crusades against the Nihil to reconquer the Holy Land (Outer Rim) lost in the NSW centuries ago. In that regard the NSW Middle Age/Dark Age is followed by a late middle age High Republic with the last crusades before a longer peace that turns to a Republic failing into an Empire akin to not just antiquity rome but also French Revolution and the rise of Napoleon as well as others.
    If Disney NJO paralells the High Republic as a return to a golden age, maybe we see another middle age analogue. Especially if Rey's movie and the Dawn of the Jedi Movie paralell and rhyme as they said they would. Then the Middle Ages of Rey's time would be the Knights Templar rediscovering antiquity and the holy grail of the Dawn and preserving it and such.

    As you can see with middle age influence spread all over, we have to look I guess less at just aesthetics and more to story to discern which era (including repetitions and cyclic history) feels storywise more like the middle ages.

    In that regard the Rome/Greece analogue would be TOTJ-KOTOR-TOR, which ended in a Dark Age (the NSW) and a higher middle age as the High Republic, which is romanticised as the ideal Jedi time etc. This leaves pre-TOTJ times like the Hundred Year Darkness, Great Hyperspace War or even far removed Dawn of the Jedi as biblical times that even antiquity only heard from in stories (aka Atlantis, Giants, Eden, Angels, etc. followed by ancient first remembered cultures and settlements like Sumerian stuff before Egypt starts off classic antiquity). Then the Movie Era kinda follows from French Revolution till the World Wars and onwards. But the future is a mix of all previous... a return to romanticised past eras feels. Arthurian ST vibes by those that wish the good old times back and rather have good monarchs than bad democracies. Newer and Newer Republics styled after antiquity or modern versions depending who you ask. And other forms experimented with. Councils, Round Tables, Force Popes etc.
     
  8. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 23, 2011
    I think they should steer away from making different GFFA eras being too analogous to different real world era aesthetics. It would risk becoming a bit trite. I don’t wanna see a time in the GFFA where all the stuff we know is suddenly dressed up to be like 18th Century Europe, for example.

    Likewise, I don’t want the social development to be too tied to Western Europe. Cultures develop in weird and wonderful ways - we shouldn’t be seeing ‘this is the French Revolutionary period of the GFFA, and naturally now the slow spread of liberal ideas, and then we have two big galactic wars, etc, etc’
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2023
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  9. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 24, 2013
    I agree that it is trite and not optimal, but that is Disney's chosen modus operandi ever since and follows a trend set by TOTJ no less that later EU mostly ignored and only was returned to by Disney and Pablo.

    I do want to see the GFFA version of tophats ;)
    But luckily there is enough era overlap and mixup aesthetically that despite the underlying trend followed, nothing will ONLY look like this or that era but always remain a mix of several fitting themed eras.

    But if TOTJ till TOR is the Antiquity Wars and falling apart of antiquity till a shortlived golden age (King Arthur) in the Paecian Empire makes way for the Dark Ages of NSW till High Republic, we have clear references and progressions everyone can understand. If you kinda di a wildly different evolution, it is welcome mind you, it needs to be logical and people need to buy it. But Authors will always write what they know and that is history more likely than exploring new ideas that arn't a mix of old ones.

    But in other questions:

    What is the Hindenburg or Titanic event of the GFFA? High Republics Hyperspace chaos from the beginning of Phase 1? Outbound Flights loss?

    Will the colonialism of the High Republic annexing the Outer Rim lead to overstretch, economic disaster, exploitation of the Rim and lead to the enrichment of few and a great depression for the majority of the galaxy?

    Instead of Missionaries spreading christianity, what does the GFFA version spread? Democracy instead of Religion? We already had the High Republics Path of the Open Hand turning volatile kinda mirroring the clash between Christianity/Jedi vs. Muslims/Path that turn from benevolent group to terrorists basically abusing the good tenets of their own religion and beliefs as real world terrorists not really are as muslim as they preach.
     
  10. Reepicheep775

    Reepicheep775 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 27, 2019
    Yes, I agree @DarthPhilosopher and @ColeFardreamer. I don't want time periods in Star Wars (or even institutions, characters etc.) to be too closely linked with a particular historical entity. Star Wars in every era has always been a mix and it should continue to be like that. However, it's a fun thought experiment given the premise of this thread, to think about what era most closely aligns with the Middle Ages.
    There was the Imperial Mission in the Legacy era that provided aid to impoverished planets. I can't remember if they helped planets under Imperial jurisdiction or if they helped planets outside in the hopes they would join.
     
  11. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Force Ghost star 6

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    Jan 23, 2011
    We seem to have the following for the current canon (with my own ideas added for some);

    25,000: Birth of the Jedi, ‘stone-age futurism’
    25,000-5000: unknown
    5000-1000: Sith Wars, ‘feudalism aesthetic, futuristic medievalism’
    1000-500: Republic Rebuilding, ‘German expressionism’
    500-100: Republic Golden Age, ‘50s sci-fi mixed with classic aurthurian fantasy’
    100-Present: Modern period, ‘70s sci-fi’
    Future: 2000s futurism
     
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  12. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 24, 2013
    Stone Age Futurism? That a term that you made up or...? I like it. Fits the Pulp era Scifi feel this era needs paired with biblical epos styles but in space.

    25,000-5000 I would split up like this:

    Pre 25000 as Preastronautic, Ancient Aliens as enslaving Gods, etc.
    25,000 - 20,000 Biblical / Sumerian / Atlantean, Age of Mythology, only remembered as halftruths and idealised or romanticised versions (20000 Timelines book as the Republic Foundation, or for OneCanon re-Foundation instead of Legends 25000 alongside the Jedi)
    20,000 - 7000 Rise of Ancient Egypt till the Great Sin, up to Hundred Year Darkness and Rise of the Sith
    7000-5000 Classic Antiquity, Greece & Persia, there be monsters beyond the edge of the maps, on and off adventures against Sith and mythological enemies beyond the border until full war strikes back with the Great Hyperspace War

    Likewise 5000-1000 I would split into:

    5000 - 3000 Late Antiquity, Rome to early Dark Age Fall of the Antiquity Governments, THE SITH WARS
    3000 - 2000 Early Dark Age, Arthurian Paecian Empire shortlived Golden Age
    2000 - 1000 The Dark Ages, Crusades, THE NEW SITH WARS

    Also throw in around 700BBY the wars of Republic and Jedi against Mandalorians could get a Napoleonic touch.


    And other questions for you folks:

    Which era, event or thus may invoke an inuniverse "Flower Power Hippie" Movement vibe? It certainly happened as the aftermath of such is felt in the galaxy by certain characters befitting that style or invoking it after that era must have already ended.

    Where does victorian Star Wars fall? And when do I get inuniverse tophats?
     
  13. SpecForce Trooper

    SpecForce Trooper Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 19, 2016
    For people who've consumed more SWTOR media than me: Is SWTOR technology actually overly-advanced, or is it just the futuristic aesthetic that people complain about? The way I see it, every generation has an aesthetic that tries to look cutting-edge and futuristic. SWTOR's appearance is definitely different, but I'm fine to attribute it to changing tastes.
     
  14. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 9, 2017
    The restaurant chain did do well in the GFFA. I guess their food is more appetizing than Bantha Burgers
     
  15. Lord Sith Harloxzz

    Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 27, 2016
    I dont understand why some Fans dont like that SWTOR Era has Advanced Technology in Dawn of the Jedi the People of the Galaxy already had Holograms, Ships and Comlinks Star Wars is Fantasy it doesnt have to be like in Real Life where Technology Progresses Differently we dont know how the Ancient Civilizations of the Real World were like it could be possible that they had Lost Technology or that they were very different from what we thought Nobody has a Time Machine to see how the Ancient Civilizations of the Real World were like the same can happen with Star Wars Civilizations could have been very different in the Past in Star Wars Droids and Blasters existed since Ancient Times at least in Legends it was like that
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2023
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  16. SpecForce Trooper

    SpecForce Trooper Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 19, 2016
    If anything it's the technological progress in some old republic media that bothers me. Like the prevalence of interdictor technology in KOTOR is problematic since it was such a game changer in the OT.
     
  17. Lord Sith Harloxzz

    Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Master star 4

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    Jun 27, 2016
    I dont understand why its a bad thing im sure when Fans imagined how the Prequels were like they imagined a Style more similar to the OT the Prequels Era was more Technologically Advanced than the OT at least Visually Star Wars is not a Realistic Science Fiction i believe that in Star Wars there was always Technology the Rakata and the Kwa already had Technology i believe that Star Wars is similar to Franchises like Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones where both Franchises are always are in the Medieval Age but in Star Wars the World was always Technologically Advanced
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2023
  18. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 9

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    Oct 4, 1998
    But can they compete with Biscuit Baron?

    B&R Get Carry Out p.1 (theforce.net)
     
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