ST The New Definitely Not Improved Even More Horrible Than The Last Two Rumors Thread

Well your problem seems to be more to do with the whole premise of IX, rather than the leak per say.

 

The whole Palpatine fight sounds underwhelming. Kylo and Rey tag-teaming with a lightsaber. i know the PT was vibrant with its choreography but this just seems like JJ really trying to ground to what he feels is classic star wars. which is odd because i know JJ can do better than that.

I suppose i was expecting something abit more ambitious

 

This is very true.

 

I think the difference is more where the OT inspiration came from. It was inspired by old serial films that was good vs evil with a cliff hanger. GL also was inspired by Akira Kurosawa and WW1-2 aerial battles, the rise of Nazi Germany. These new filmmakers are inspired by George Lucas and Steven Spielberg more so than the material that originally inspired George Lucas and Steven Spielberg. That why I am looking forward to new movies that doesn’t have to try to replicate the OT. It will allow more room for a truly creative vision coming from a different sources of inspiration. The next trilogies could have a different style and look, really step outside the box.

 

Does JJ take from other sources of inspiration? currently most of the inspiration is the OT. thats the real star wars.

Although while that worked with the TFA. i think that would hurt TROS.

 

Setting aside everyone’s original expectations for what the ST could or would be, if in 2013 they announced that Darth Sidious had survived and that the next trilogy would involve his decades long plotted comeback and star his long lost granddaughter unaware of her family history and considerable dark side power being recruited to the Light side of the Force opposite the grandson of Anakin, who’d embraced evil and believed that Darth Vader’s goal of ruling the galaxy was where the family line should have gone, and that the OT3 would all play minor support roles in the journey of these two characters I think there would have been a lot less hopes dashed and more productive speculation overall. It would have been more about the execution of that.

The framework of the story above is actually quite interesting for me and does add new layers to the entire 9 part story and will make the prequels more interesting for new fans of Star Wars who discovered Star Wars via the ST first. There’s some serious potential there as a story with the grandchildren of Palpatine and Anakin finding each other through the will of the Force and plenty of fascinating themes to explore on nature vs nurture and what is inherited from ancestors and what is chosen in spite of that inheritance.

It’s possible the broadstrokes of this story always was the guiding light they were working toward but weren’t sure how to get there. It’s also possible they discovered it along the way. Whatever the case one thing I think we can all agree on is that the new Lucasfilm have consistently done a poor job of setting expectations where they should have set them. It sounds like this title will be the latest of many such examples of that. Although the increased emphasis on Sidious in the advertising this time and the inclusion of the Dark Side Rey in the D23 reel did at least lead to a surge of Rey Palpatine/clone theorizing so perhaps they have finally realized from past mistakes in setting expectations where they should set them. The constant reminders that the Skywalker saga comes to an end also helps so there’s that I suppose too.

 

Agreed and I don't see Rey Palpatine as any sort of extra insult. Sure a Palpatine gets to be the hero but OG Palpy would absolutely hate that so it's not like he really "wins" in any meaningful way.

 

I believe that JJ’s inspiration is more what GL did than what actually inspired GL. For example has JJ’s really talked a lot about his love for serial films? Not saying JJ doesn’t love them but I can say GL definitely loved those films more than JJ. See what I am saying? GL’s inspiration was love of old films that were no longer being made. He made something new out of something that was almost dead and gone from cinema. JJ is trying to replicate something that is immensely popular which makes it almost impossible to make something completely new without stepping on the toes of what came before. He has to follow that formula GL made. With new films they can step outside the box more and create something more original. Not completely separate of the OT but more diverse at minimum.

 

*Edit

 

Yes and no. i think JJ needs to replicate. but i don't know whether he needs to replicate to the degree that he does.

 

The Skywalker family and their story winning over the orphaned granddaughter of Sidious in a way where she never discovers her galaxy-altering dark side potential and instead fights with them to end him is the ultimate Light side/Jedi/Skywalker checkmate versus him and a potential comeback for the Sith.

 

If these leaks are legit, then Sequel Trilogy would look and feel like Sequel Dilogy+1 episode of finale.
TLJ closes Sequel Dilogy (most plot lines were finished) and TROS closes the whole saga.

 

Except all the major stuff in this movie was set up in TFA and the material surrounding TFA, trilogy style.

 

exactly, then we would have tension for TROS, with everything at stake and Luke dying by the emperor saving Rey or even Kylo to show him the light and finally bring him back. All of this would have been much more believable.

 

Sequel Dilogy + something strange in between.

 

This is an important clarification. I think you’ve identified a major difference between my conception of heroism, and the traditionally Germanic one. I think that a heroic act is a selfless one that is done regardless of whether or not it succeeds in achieving its goal. For example, had the Rogue One crew gone in to retrieve the Death Star plans, but failed to beam them up to the Alliance, and all died, I would see that as a heroic act, and not judge them as failures. Same goes for Luke on Crait. Despite the limited nature of that act (just delaying the FO for a bit to allow the Resistance some more time to escape), he died doing it. Qui-gon died fighting Maul, but I don’t consider him a failure, etc.

I just fundamentally don’t agree with the harsh philosophy that heroism must lead to major and lasting success to be considered heroism. I also don’t think that standard is consistent with Star Wars.

 

What do you think about latest leaks? Rey Palpatine?

 

How in the world can you divine what the fight with Palpatine will be like based on this information?

 

The difference is that it would have been set forth from the start.

But then again, this trilogy was never really going anywhere so they could pretty much do anything just to give it a plot I suppose.

Premise is insteresting, but the emphasis on Palpatine's from JP's reddit stuff feels too overdone. I think people are clinging to the idea of Rey being Palpatine's literal granddaughter. I HIGHLY doubt that is the correct interpretation. At the end of the day, it HAS to be about the Skywalkers and Rey's connection to them.

 

Would someone watching TFA think Rey was “obviously” Palpatine’s granddaughter?

(Or even know who Palpatine is, for that matter?)

These leaks are absurd for a variety of reasons - primarily logistical - completely unrelated to how great/awful they make RoS sound.

Sounds like a single source is feeding several people BS information.

 

If she’s related to the man most responsible to all of the pain and suffering caused to their family long-term then she DOES have a direct connection to them. And if she fell in love with their story as a kid and chooses them and what’s right versus the sense of longing she’s had for family after realizing that her only surviving family member is the villain in the story she grew up loving who ruled the galaxy and wants her to do the same with him, AND the Skywalkers unite at the end to help her defeat him and keep her from the dark path then they have built a connection with her, too.

 

Hopefully.

I had a thought that because it was discarded for Anakin's story in ROTS, maybe they reused the "created by the Sith" aspect for Rey.

This would be more satisfying than Rey as a biological descendant of Sidious. And could really play into the apparent theme that a hero can come from any background.

Also for those who think it would taint Rey... Vader being Luke and Leia's father certainly doesn't dirty them Imo.

Eta -
I do wish they stuck with this in Revenge of the Sith though. A Skywalker (Anakin) who joins his evil "father", and a Skywalker (Luke) who refuses to join his evil father under any circumstance, and ends up turning him.
It would have been good symmetry.

A third layer is obviously added with TROS, but we have yet to see how.
I really think Rey as a creation of Palpatine could work - and again it inverts Kylo's journey with Rey coming from evil yet achieving enlightenment, where Ben came from good yet still fell to the dark.

 

Its the part where they take turns with the saber. it gives off the impression they wanna keep it one on one. which certainly keeps it more simplistic.

 

Let me describe the Anakin vs. Obi-wan fight in the same way these leaks describe the fight with Palpatine.

“Anakin and Obi-wan fight on a harsh planet, and jump around for a while, until Obi-wan beats him.”

 

I was thinking about the scenario with Rey's parents being murdered by the Sith dagger, and was thinking - perhaps Palpatine ordered the deaths of Rey's parents (including his own child) himself? By severing that bond for Rey and leaving her to grow up alone and isolated, he could be attempting to create an heir (or a vessel, depending on whether there's any truth to the possession stuff) who was immune to the weaknesses of the Skywalkers - the stuff JP reports Palpatine as telling Rey could easily be a cover story used to make himself seem benevolent and loving towards her, when he's actually anything but. He learned from the example of the Skywalkers and their love for one another, but instead of seeking to re-create that bond he sought to break it and leave Rey vulnerable. This would also explain Matt Smith (who would presumably be the acolyte responsible for actually carrying out Palpatine's order).

Tying into this, you could also have Rey's parents aware that Palpatine was hunting them, with the likely goal of murdering them and kidnapping Rey to be either brought up by him/brought up in brutal isolation, and the exchange of money Kylo saw in his vision was actually them paying Plutt to care for her, rather than being given money themselves.