ST The New Definitely Not Improved Even More Horrible Than The Last Two Rumors Thread

What if you took the Joker and Harley Quinn story and then as soon as the Joker learned that Harley Quinn was at risk to become what he was, due to her own family history with crime, and experiences with him, he fought against his own evil and died selflessly trying to stop her from becoming what he was?

Ladies & gentlemen: Welcome to Episode IX.

 

I’m saying before her slide to darkness. Back when she was still a psychiatrist who merely listened to and was curious by evil and had evil in her family.

 

Name one thing you have written that can't be seen in concept art?

There is no dialogue and he has consistently got plot points wrong. Like you know, when you are basing things on concept art, that not even used in the movie. What you just wrote is a good example of it. Laura Dern character never makes anything "far worse" and Poe never becomes the interim leader of the Resistance. That is assumption, which was wrong. Because he is assuming it based on the concept art/marketing. I mean... come on.

 

Still insane, and wouldn't he still be locked up in this scenario so how would he selflessly stop her from becoming bad like him?
Honestly, nothing about this analogy makes sense to me, unless your point is Reylo is toxic AF.

 

Yes, that's an issue. But I wasn't talking about the credibility of JP. I was talking about the credibility of MSW, which is affirmed by hundreds of spoilers like the one above. So right now, I'm only taking seriously the JP rumors that are affirmed by MSW.

I can't converse with someone who's clearly and unequivocally proven wrong, and simply refuses to accept that. I see enough of that on TV these days. I'm done.

 

The spoilers we have show Kylo Ren killing his way through a lot of people, ruling the First Order in it's campaign to control the galaxy, hounding Rey because he was told to bring her to Palpatine etc. All that is on top of his actions since the opening of TFA. I know some people are ready to embrace him with open arms...and likely have been since TFA. I am not such a person. I have watched him throw away every offered chance to turn aside from his path and instead chose to march further into the Darkness. I have seen him plan to kill Snoke whose praise he drank in during TFA. I've watched Kylo Ren tear apart things in a childish temper-tantrum. I've watched him promise to destroy everything just to achieve his own Destiny. Furthermore...if he can sense his mothers death from Half a galaxy away then he knew that she was alive and likely on Crait...and he attacked anyways. It also means he likely knew Rey was onboard the Falcon when he ordered it shot out of the sky again on Crait. This is not a man I see making such a swift change.

Yes redemption worked in the Original Star Wars films, but that dosen't mean it will work here.

 

Oh, forgot to add. Inclusion of Ahsoka's voice here (while making me glad she isnt immortal) also kills my interest in her potential adventures post-RotJ. Good job.

 

Plus, who really cares about his motivations? He’s evil and wants power. That’s all we ever needed to know.

 

Yes, but he explicitly states that its speculation when its speculation, so who gives a fig? Speculation is inherently dodgy. The actual leaks are all that matters. And those are almost always spot on. He's a reliable source. Period. Why does this nonsense discussion need to happen every time?

 

I don't get Reylo it has to be one of the most toxic and outright disgusting ships I've encountered. I legit felt sick looking at some of those pictures posted on the last page I don't get the appeal. If Reylo does happen I swear that I'll never show the ST to children because that is not a good thing to show them.
''Oh but you see it's okay to date a man that's tortured you and tried to murder you and your friends. Because you see he is just a poor misunderstood man who just wants some love to change him''

 

Pretty they've been spot on

• Massive feet of Death Star Destroyers ;p (D23 confirmed)
• Threat from the Beyond....Palpatine
• Sith Troopers...Yep.
• That poster (Okay I think that was Paxis) still everything from that post has come true. "It's real...all of it"

 

I concede

this is a very good point

 

It works about the same tbh. you can't put a sympathetic approach on Vader and then act like his 20 years of terror is nothing on what Kylo did.

 

Yes, because by posting stuff so clearly gleaned from art (this is what the character looks like) and posting him literally getting story details wrong, makes me the clearly and unequivocally wrong one. Your attempt to shut down the argument while posting exactly what I said means nothing. Nor does Jason Ward losing his mind on the internet.

 

It takes the “torture makes you evil” trope and combines it by someone doing so to the grandaughter of Darth freakin’ Sidious, unlocking her previously dormant Dark side potential and risk to the galaxy.

Then he works to undo that awakening by rising as the last Skywalker alive and sacrificing himself as his grandfather did to help stop not only the original Sidious but the potential next one from embracing darkness. He really does help finish what his grandfather started when he debilitated Sidious all those years ago.

The antihero of the ST: Ben Solo.

 

The Joker and Harley Quinn are an abusive, toxic couple. The Joker doesn't care about Harley Quinn. That's the whole point. Harley Quinn still stays with The Joker anyway. I have no idea why you would want this comparison.

 

Man and I thought we already hit the floor of bad Joker takes with Leto and Monaghan.

 

This is starting to tiptoe into sordid territory.

 

Imagine comparing Rey to Harley Quinn.

 

Which is what dark siders want; its what palpatine wanted. its what Vader wanted. its what Dooku wanted. its what Maul wanted.

People try and simplify the dark side to a choice of whether you are good or bad. and honestly its always power based. ROTJ and likely episode 9 will not be about Palpatine asking Rey to join him and her being like nah! and him being like ah well darn!. no the idea is that Rey could fall to the dark side without even being given the choice! all she needs to do is allow herself to slip because of the feeling or desire to the embrace rage or anger that she feels. which means that when it comes this whole situation, its actually far complicated. its not about saying yes or not, its about recognizing the likely strong dark side seduction and pulling away from its power induced pull. but then if Rey uses force lightning we are meant to believe she tapped into it and did not pull away. thats the fear thats surrounding her.

 

One person's fantasy that Rey secretly enjoys torture and is turned on by it does not make it so. NOTHING in the movie reflects this. NOTHING in the leaks reflects this. NOTHING in either director's commentary reflects this. NOTHING in cast interviews reflects this. NOTHING in Star wars history reflects this. Thank God.

 

He's not a antihero by any means, he's a childkilling, parent killing, genocidal maniac with no redemming factors going for him. Pairing him up with the main protagonist of this trilogy would be the most insane direction for them to go storywise. Not to mention that it's toxic as well.