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ST The New Definitely Not Improved Even More Horrible Than The Last Two Rumors Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth Chiznuk , Dec 12, 2017.

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  1. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    I wasn’t aware that taking a name swallows one’s identity. That seems to negate Rey’s agency. By all accounts of the rumor, Rey chooses that name. And as a young woman with strength and agency, that name has no independent power to swallow her. She’s simply honoring her teachers (Luke and Leia). Are we at a place in society where even a hint of that kind of humility, or respect for past generations, is labeled weakness? That’s Ayn Rand/ Clockwork Orange-level scary to me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    Bor Mullet, Dec 9, 2019
    #53051
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  2. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 18, 2017
    I think it is supposed to be but with the way the story played out so far and in the leaks, they failed and she will accomplish so her taking the name feels on one level like just a meta statement because Skywalker is the more valuable brand name and meta alone means nothing to me if I feel it is unearned. Which I don`t. Instead it feels like a little condescending pat on the head for the Skywalkers. It would be like Mozart re-naming himself Salieri in honor of the composer who wasn`t a wunderkind and had a far lesser musical legacy but he can have this participation trophy, handed out from the real deal. You can probably write it down to the German POV on legacy and failure again but that kind of story is just not gonna fly with me. :p
     
    Alliyah Skywalker, Dec 9, 2019
    #53052
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  3. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    Well I think picking a name is deeply personal, for sure. It’s how Rey wants to be identified for the rest of her life. This choice should be based on Rey’s personal characterization. It shouldn’t be a meta complement to Luke to try and appease fans ticked off that his legacy was destroyed.
     
    AhsokaSolo, Dec 9, 2019
    #53053
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  4. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2015
    Because it was probably Palps in reality and he knew he had to push Kylo more and that Kylo was going to strike him down in reality. He needed both to come to the unknown regions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    lawton, Dec 9, 2019
    #53054
  5. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Which, I don`t think even will have that particular effect. Like, at all.
     
    Alliyah Skywalker, Dec 9, 2019
    #53055
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  6. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

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    Dec 23, 2015
    Right and this is the other problem with it. It’s patronizing as hell.
     
    AhsokaSolo, Dec 9, 2019
    #53056
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  7. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

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    Apr 6, 2018
    I just don’t think it can be labeled as “meta” until we see how Rey’s relationship with Luke and Leia is depicted in TROS. Including any information about that relationship over the whole year between TLJ and TROS.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    Bor Mullet, Dec 9, 2019
    #53057
  8. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    From the leaks it seems pretty clear that Luke appearing on Ahch-To is the first time she has contact with him since TLJ. That`s why only Leia is her true mentor and confidante. Luke has five minutes with her and is then one voice among many. At least Leia is the final voice of the cheering squad. Meaning Rey Organa would make sense. But Organa isn`t the valuable brand name.

    Or JJ could have done the scene where a stranger asks Rey her surname and she gets sad and at the end another stranger asks again and she says "Rey, just Rey", smiling with confidence. Showing that this question is no longer important to her. She isn`t going by Palpatine but neither does she need meta-walker or anything else. She is at peace with "Rey".

    But then you have no justification for the title of the movie.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    Alliyah Skywalker, Dec 9, 2019
    #53058
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  9. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

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    Apr 6, 2018
    But Leia is also a Skywalker by blood. So if Rey repairs her relationship with Luke, and has a great relationship with Leia, it makes in-universe sense for her to...honor them both by going with Skywalker. Though I’d be OK with Rey Organa Skywalker too. :)
     
    Bor Mullet, Dec 9, 2019
    #53059
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  10. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    I have faith that JJ & Terrio will set up the name thing better than the least favorable assumptions have this right now.

    Some bit of dialogue or flashback or scene will make that end moment feel like it was worked up to.
     
    Ender_and_Bean, Dec 9, 2019
    #53060
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  11. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    As compared to what? Kylo as a character limiting Driver’s talent because he’s 99% explainable as just “the bad guy?” Kylo’s most emotionally complex moment still being his murder of his father, where it’s clear he’s just convincing himself to do something bad against his conscience, while Anakin gets to deal with guilt, denial, wrath, a desire to pass the blame, his failure to keep to his own standards, acknowdgekement that he did something terrible, and horror at his own actions? All while his actions still make sense emotionally even as horrible as they are, while Kylo is stuck with just a “he’s crazy” mindset?

    Don’t get me wrong; I believe Driver has a greater acting range and skill, and his agent clearly knows how to get him into good movies and productions. But Christensen got more complex scenes for his character, as suits a protagonist who’s becoming a fallen hero, and got to shine a few times, even as he was shackled by other scenes. Driver is shackled with a character who the producers desperately want to be complex anti-hero, but who still only really shows his potential when used as a loathsome badguy.

    To put it another way... I have no doubt that Christensen could give a high quality performance similar to Adam Driver’s as Kylo Ren, because the role isn’t actually that strenuous. If Christensen were directed by guys like Abrams and Johnson, he could easily do it. At the same time, Driver could no doubt deliver a better performance as Anakin/Vader, at least partially because he seems to be a more intuitive actor himself, which is a skill needed to overcome Lucas’s direction when so few of his subordinates were willing to act as critical peers to him.

    There’s a limit to how much an actor can elevate a role. Driver has taken the role to its peak thus far... but let’s not pretend it’s very tall; it’s still dwarfed by Boyega as Finn and Hamill as Luke. And right now, it’s still firmly underneath Christensen’s better stuff in AOTC and ROTs, just because every now and then Lucas managed to direct Christensen the right way with a simply better character.

    In short, because it makes the name a marketing gimmick divorced from the family drama which matter more.

    I think it mostly comes down to it smelling supremely false, ignorant of the weight and baggage the name Skywalker carries, and that it *does* seem insulting to Leia or Han because of the preference it gives Luke’s last name. *And* if the leak holds true, than Rey’s parents dying trying to protect her throws another massive wrench into the equation for the Skywalker name.

    Yeah, Leia is the only one connected to the Organa name.... and it’s still a far superior better choice than Skywalker. Leia’s going to be the only constant of the OT3 in Rey’s rise as a hero, her real trainer, and her name is already an adopted one that carries less baggage than Skywalker, and thus has a greater resonance as an adopted name. And since she and Han both had more positive on-screen relationships with Rey, it quickly unspools the narrative cohesion behind Rey choosing Skywalker over them.

    (Note: It has occurred to me that Abrams could get sneaky here and have Leia referee to by Skywalker now, with her taking the name after Luke’s death because of its power. That would work marginally better, in my opinion... but it’s still depending on the idea of the Skywalker name needing to be legendary in-universe, when the name doesn’t mean as much to me as the family drama it’s attached to.)

    And let’s face it, the Skywalker name, if taken as a representative of the Force using part of the family, carries just as much baggage as the Palpatine name, and if Rey’s parents really did die protecting her, than why does she not want to redeem her own name? Is she trying to hide from the legacy of the name with another equally tainted one that just happens to have a better PR department? It’s a mess caused by the films trying to treat names as symbols: elements of fraud and deception already cloud Luke’s death in some people’s opinions, he himself was lied to about his father, and Anakin and Kylo both kind of drag the name through the mud in truth... but the trademark needs protecting, so we can’t lose it?

    Now, I think all of this could work much better... if TLJ didn’t happen the way it did.

    But it happened, and that cut off the dramatic value and integrity of story options like Rey being an adopted Skywalker.

    And there’s just a simple, nagging inquiry about how this impacts the entire ST story: if Rey was never supposed to stand alone, and she was always supposed to be festooned with Skywalker/Solo weaponry, ships, background stylings, Force power levels, and even the name...

    ...Why isn’t she just a Skywalker?

    The more complex answer that could accommodate a found family idea and her adopting the name requires more complex storytelling in tha arena than TLJ’s aftermath allows. And if all of this is being done to try and keep the Skywalker name alive... then there’s really no way to not see Rey Solo/Skywalker as just a betterment option. The *only* real advantage Rey “Skywalker” has is one of found family storytelling, and there’s a depth to that idea that just can’t be communicated using repurposed Carrie footage, and it’s *still* not going to really fit, given the context created by who the Skywalkers are.

    (Another Note: There is another cheat here that could get me aboard to an extent, but also shows how little respect I have for the idea as expressed in the leaks - Finn also get the name. A Finn “Skywalker” has just as much claim to familial tie to the name as Rey does... because he *is* her family, in a way that Han, Luke, and Leia won’t be able to match due to limited and wasted screentime. And if they want to preserve the legend of the name, why not the other character who doesn’t have a last name, and is arguably even more of a hero by himself than the family line is.

    But as you can see, this illustrates how little credence I give to the idea that the name is really that significant If the family is dead.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    godisawesome , Dec 9, 2019
    #53061
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  12. Alliyah Skywalker

    Alliyah Skywalker Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 18, 2017
    Leia very specifically never adopted the name Skywalker, despite being of the bloodline. If you name yourself after someone else in honor of them, you name yourself after them, not the name they specifically didn`t use. If I was the one being "honored" in this scenario, I would think "screw you" to the one doing the so-called honoring. And that one scene with Luke doesn`t justify a name change.

    I could have rolled with a story where Rey felt adopted into the Skywalker family and made them found family. You could even make that work with her as a Palpatine because it would be reverse Anakin. But in that case, the entire ST needed to be different and set this up, not just two or three quick scenes in movie 3. Too little, too late.
     
    Alliyah Skywalker, Dec 9, 2019
    #53062
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  13. Binary_Sunset

    Binary_Sunset Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2000
    I hope so. I remember all the coy behavior after the world premiere of TFA, and I hope we don't get a replay of that.
     
    Binary_Sunset, Dec 9, 2019
    #53063
  14. Darthur C. Clarke

    Darthur C. Clarke Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 2016
    For the record, that's more time spent together than Luke and Obi-Wan had.
     
    Darthur C. Clarke, Dec 9, 2019
    #53064
  15. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    I really doubt that considering how little legwork they've actually put into making a cohesive story.
     
    Talos of Atmora, Dec 9, 2019
    #53065
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  16. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    And Luke never called himself “Luke Lars,” let alone “Luke Kenobi.”

    An adopted, found-family story can and *does* have power... but seems highly unlikely to be executed well enough for the name-taking to escape a fraudulent and overly-convoluted patina. And without a really strong found-family story between Rey and Luke, almost all other options have stronger narrative reasoning.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    godisawesome , Dec 9, 2019
    #53066
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  17. The Regular Mustache

    The Regular Mustache Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2015
    That's one of the things that I really hate about the idea of Rey picking the Skywalker name. It sounds more like a forth wall breaking attempt to appease people like me who want Rey to be a Skywalker, more-so than a natural choice for the character to make. Might as well have Finn adopt the Skywalker name too.
     
    The Regular Mustache, Dec 9, 2019
    #53067
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  18. alwayslurking

    alwayslurking Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2019
    Saw this on reddit, but having trouble pasting the link. Here is a direct link to the image.

    From BBFC:

    [​IMG]
     
    alwayslurking, Dec 9, 2019
    #53068
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  19. Miles Lodson

    Miles Lodson Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 1998
    bloody hell now JJ is copying Raiders of the Lost Ark....
     
    Miles Lodson, Dec 9, 2019
    #53069
    RetropME, eko32eko7, All_Powerful_Jedi and 1 other person like this.
  20. lawton

    lawton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 12, 2015
    Palps in the movie is the greater evil Lucas talked about?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    lawton, Dec 9, 2019
    #53070
    Bor Mullet likes this.
  21. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    The easiest way to make it go down a little smoother — though I realize it won’t stop the sarcasm here or on saltier than — would be to borrow the Mandolorian scene with rebuilding the ship but have Luke advise her (cue the sarcasm she doesn’t need advising since she’s an expert) on repairing the X-Wing after he’s lifted it and do a montage with her working and him pointing at parts that shows them bonding more and her tired afterward and resting and then have her say some dialogue like this:

    LUKE:
    It won’t be the smoothest flight of your life but it will fly.

    REY:
    My dad taught me about ships. His dream was to fly an X-Wing someday.

    Did you ever consider having a—

    LUKE:
    Family? Sure. Everyone considers it. But those students were like my kids. Which is why it took me years to, well, you know.

    REY:
    Oh boy... Was my father a fan of you though. You should have seen his face when he told me what your dad did to the Emperor. Now I know why.

    LUKE:
    For years Leia and I vowed never to explain our past. One of several regrets. Only by facing the past can we learn from it.

    REY:
    A child...asked me my family name the other day. I didn’t even know what to say. My father told me our name was taken from us and that he’d never speak it. Why should the Skywalker name end but my grandfather’s name live on?

    LUKE:
    It’s only a name, Rey. Does a lightsaber change if we call it a laser sword?

    REY:
    Easy for you to say. Your name is revered.

    LUKE:
    Take it.

    REY:
    Pardon me?

    LUKE:
    My name. If you like it. It’s yours. Besides... you just found out your ancestor was a Sith Lord. That’s about as Skywalker as it gets.

    (They both smile)

    a 30 second montage of fixing the X-Wing that implies Luke and Rey working together for hours on it and maybe 45 seconds of dialogue and they could help themselves out a lot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    Ender_and_Bean, Dec 9, 2019
    #53071
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  22. Fin McCool

    Fin McCool Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Fin McCool, Dec 9, 2019
    #53072
  23. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Here's the link, I couldn't find it on their twitter or on their website, so I just tacked on the year to the url, and presto there it was.

    https://bbfc.co.uk/releases/star-wars-rise-skywalker-2019
     
    MagnarTheGreat, Dec 9, 2019
    #53073
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  24. spacebaby45678

    spacebaby45678 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 14, 2016
    So Granpa Vampire Palpy wants to bite his granddaughter Rey... HOW QUAINT
     
    spacebaby45678, Dec 9, 2019
    #53074
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  25. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Palpatine didn't look like a demonic fanged vampire. :)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    MagnarTheGreat, Dec 9, 2019
    #53075
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