The Official Dark Nest I: The Joiner King Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)

Yes, exactly! These are their parents, after all. (And while I suppose it would've been difficult to see on the holo, their mother was pregnant with them during the scene in question.) Why does Mara have to intrude on absolutely everything?

And why does Luke always think of Mara before Leia, or anyone else? Heck, even in the paragraph where he thinks about R2-D2's distinctive aura, he does a mental comparison to Mara before Leia or Han!

Luke had a bond with Leia before he ever met Mara. I'm so sick of Mara being treated as though she's the center of the galaxy.

 

Luke is very codependent. He's so clingy, well, he really is like Padme.

 

it sounded like he wanted to tell both mara and leia, he didnt want mara to tell leia about it, he did.

 

I still don't get why Artoo is trying to hide this from Luke adn Leia. He does have no reason to. Unless, he thinks Luke and Leia might end up blaming themselvesfor their father turning.

 

I agree. Luke and Leia already believe he killed ALL of the Jedi, including children. They now of Vader's actions, and probably think he might could have killed her from earlier references so it's not that he's killed Jedi or Padme, but all I can think of is that Artoo thinks that if they find out he went to the dark side to save them, they may blame themselves in an abstract way.

 

Thanks for posting the excerpt, Matt!

I almost expect his next line to be, "It isn't fair!" You can take the farmboy off the farm but.....

 

Luke has to be able to use force powers and kick some arse. I'm tired of him having to depend on others, or having him half injured, or too tired so that he can never show his potential. It's one thing to allege and another to do.

 

I agree, vong333. I've not read the book, but it seems that all manifestations of the Force should be accessible to a Jedi without being inherently ?light? or ?dark."

Just my opinion, of course.

 

Hey, all. Your friendly neighborhood Joiner King Summarizer here. I was the one who wrote the summary of Joiner King over at NJOE.com (who knew Comic Con was selling early copies? OH YEAH!), and I thought it was probably about time to get off my lazy ass and register here (seeing as how someone was kind enough to put a link to NJOE.com on the Books page). I was actually a member here at TF.N many moons ago (around '99, when VP came out), but either due to inactivity, or when TF.N switched their forums to a larger server (I think that's what went on), my account was deleted (all those who lost their post counts when that happened know what I'm talking about...).

I just thought I'd throw in my two cents, because my summary probably made a few people panic, LoL. Regarding the Potentium and the Force's light side and dark side; I know a lot of people are tearing their hair out saying "What?! No Dark Side?! 30 **** years of Star Wars and the Force and there's no DARK SIDE?!" And that's understandable. But believe me when I say that it makes a LOT of sense when you read it (which is only a couple of days away, folks!), and it's just not something that's easily desribed. In fact, while reading about the Potentium, it seemed like such an obvious fact that I can't believe the Jedi didn't figure it out before! The Jedi teach to let go of your anger and hatred, but just because a Jedi gets angry, does that mean they instantly fall to the Dark Side of the Force? No. So, if that's the case, then why is the Force separated into Light and Dark in the first place? I mean, I shouldn't even try to explain it, because I just can't. But it makes a lot of sense when I read it, and I think that has a LOT to do with Denning's grace with the pen. Kudos to him.

JOINER KING SPOILERS:

The only sore spot I had was regarding Jaina; she's been my very favorite Star Wars EU character since I read the YJK series, and being about the same age as her I spend my teen years going through the same things she was going through (except her life was on a much GRANDER scale), and I have developed a passion for the girl. I stuck with her through the good and the bad writings; her turning to the Dark Side and flirting with Kyp made me lose a little faith in her, but I stuck with it and was overjoyed to see her prevail and be named Sword of the Jedi. I had a lot of hope for her (and her relationship with Jag Fel) at the start of this series, but by the end of the book, Jaina had lost a good bit of her independence that I so greatly admired. She was also, so to speak--*tosses a wink to Dingo*--joined at the hip to Zekk (actually, they were joined at the mind, but they seemed so attached it was as if they were joined at the hip), which thwarts the possibility of Jag Fel entering the fray (and yes, Jaina and Jag's relationship is VERY important to me--call me shallow, I don't care). Now that I've had a week to sit back and reflect on the situation, I see (actually, I'm PRAYING) that Mr. Denning is probably just milking the Jaina/Jag/Zekk love triangle for all it's worth before Jaina settles down with someone, be it Jag or Zekk (I'm REALLY rooting for Jag, though). But that still doesn't address her dual-mindedness now, and it seemed rather permanent by the end of the book. I'm sure it's too early to say that anything is permament, but if that were YOUR favorite character being controlled by a bunch of bugs and ripping your relationship with your father apart, wouldn't YOU fear the worst?

Anyway, for those who have not read the book yet, my best advice to you is to not read too much into a summary of the book that you've read; heck, don't even read too much into the book once you have it, because there's still 2 books to go and a LOT can change in that kind of time span. The Joiner King certainly piqued my interest, and I thoroughly enjoyed it (if only Denning had not toss my heart around so much...). I hope you all enjoy it too! Upon reading the last few pages, I hope no one killed themselved based on my cheap summary!

~

 

To those arguing about who Luke wanted to tell, to give you the context, less than a page earlier Mara happened to be in the room talking to Luke there on Ossuss, while Leia on the other hand is still half-way across the galaxy in the Unknown regions. Thus, this is why he wanted to tell Mara, and share his feelings with Leia since that is how he'd be able to contact the two of them.


In regards to why Artoo is hiding it, I didn't fully finish the scene since I wanted to get only the important stuff while not writing too much and getting it removed. But a little bit further on Luke internalises that the blocks were put in place years ago (Artoo couldn't because the trips are the circuit-frying type which Artoo isn't going to do to himself) for security reasons that no longer matter 50 years later.

 

In regards to why Artoo is hiding it, I didn't fully finish the scene since I wanted to get only the important stuff while not writing too much and getting it removed. But a little bit further on Luke internalises that the blocks were put in place years ago (Artoo couldn't because the trips are the circuit-frying type which Artoo isn't going to do to himself) for security reasons that no longer matter 50 years later.

I'm thinking it's Anakin that put these security measures in place (duh) after what we've read in the ROTS vis dic, etc. But sometimes, you never can tell. Do you get the feeling Luke will figure out it was his father that put them there, or that it will turn out to be Bail or Obi-Wan?

 

What does this book tell us in regards to the Vong?

 

Could it be that Artoo was a pawn of Sidious? We don't know how he came to serve on Padme's ship in TPM. Perhaps...

It just strikes me odd, as you say, that Artoo got his circuits fried. From what I've read it doesn't appear that he was keeping the truth from Luke as much as some extraneous programming was keeping the truth from Luke. I don't see Anakin being that ruthless to his favorite droid. Perhaps Artoo is the reason Sidious knew about Anakin's dream in ROTS?

 

I had thought about that. Maybe that he was programmed to spy on Anakin, against his wishes. I don't know that Anakin couldn't have found that, though. Although, it does answer how Palpatine would know of Anakin's dream and then how to get him over to the dark side. Man, is Luke going to be mad if that's the case...

On the other hand, it could be that that sector is where all of the holos from Anakin to Padme and all of the security tapes of his wife's apt. go and Anakin himself closed that section off to protect his wife and himself from ever being found out.

 

Welcome here Jaina, I am Jobaly from Njoe.. forum poster and governments section author.. ;-)

but aside from that.. R2 as Sidious spy? nice.. R2 played both sides. I doubt it but it sounds possible. Though, I tink C3PO would be a better candidate to betray anakin and padme than R2. he talks too much!

 

I don't think anyone was spying on Anakin and Padme. Anakin is the mechanical genius. I think he wanted to record as much of Padme as he could, so he could replay it when he got lonely. R2 was insulted at the insinuation of syping.

The novel also says that Anakin made tons of program changes to R2, that no one else could get around. No one knows how special R2 is.
It's a testamet to Anakin's unparalled mech skills that even the best of hackers, 50 years later and with tons of technological advancements, cannot crack his encrpytion codes.

 

right! they just don´t know the password

Luke: R2 give me a hint

R2: toootpeeofieep (your mothers maiden name)

Luke: Mommy?

R2: tooooot (wrong! only 2 tries left)

Luke: Hey.. I meant... wait... this wasn´t...

R2: tooooot (wrong again, last try)

Luke: Skywalker?

R2: Tooooot (NO WAY!)

 

Welcome and I'm Majster there

 

It doesn't matter how far away Leia is. She is his sister, those are her parents too. And as I pointed out in a previous post, Mara has repeatedly demonstrated that she has no respect for Luke's father (although she still uses his lightsaber for such important tasks as hacking at the vines of a planet when it dared wrap them around her latest eponymous vanity ship -- very Jedi master-like behavior, there), and this holo is none of her business anyway. Yet he still thinks of her first, before his own sister.

I wish he would rip himself away from Mara for even two seconds. As the change in his personality and beliefs (both for the worse) shows, being mind-melded to the likes of her is very unhealthy.

I think you're right.

 

It doesn't matter how far away Leia is. She is his sister, those are her parents too. And as I pointed out in a previous post, Mara has repeatedly demonstrated that she has no respect for Luke's father (although she still uses his lightsaber for such important tasks as hacking at the vines of a planet when it dared wrap them around her latest eponymous vanity ship -- very Jedi master-like behavior, there), and this holo is none of her business anyway. Yet he still thinks of her first, before his own sister.

I wish he would rip himself away from Mara for even two seconds. As the change in his personality and beliefs (both for the worse) shows, being mind-melded to the likes of her is very unhealthy.


I know what you are saying, but to be fair, I know that the first person I talk to is my husband, even about my family business. And I know that if my husband was sharing things with his sister before me, I'd be mad and upset enough to question our relationship! His sister comes behind me, just as her husband comes ahead of my husband. You are partners, friends, whatever... When you get married, like it or not, the person you are married to becomes more important than other family. That does not mean you shut them out or forget about them or stop loving them, but the person you share things with first is hubby/wife--whichever the case may be. I don't think it is any big shocker that Luke goes to his wife first. I don't think that makes him co-dependent...that is just the nature of a marriage.

 

You have to admit Luke is pretty henpecked.

If they didn't have the force, I am thoroughly convinced that they wouldn't like to be in the same room together. I hate their phony force bond. It seems even now, to be fake. Nothing will ever make it real to me. They seem to be playing house.

Han and Leia don't need a force crutch, their relationship, I can relate to. It was grown not "instabonded". Han and Leia are too smart to need the force anyway. They escape just using their heads. Common sense. This is a couple I'd like to have at the BBQ. They'd bring the beer and a pie, and make you laugh.
Luke and Mara are the types that no one really likes because they are entirely humorless, and can't wait til they leave. They'd never invite anyone over to their house, but don't mind mooching off others. Has anyone ever read ANYONE being over Luke's house? Nope, it's always the two flakes mooching at Leia's. Always.

Luke is a twin. That isn't like other siblings. Him and Leia were very close for years. Now, all ALuke does is use her. Luke and Mara just seem like users to me. I really find them distasteful somehow.
They will ruin Ben by making him a sad loner and ruin his chances of having a normal life. He was better off Tionne..

Leia was COS, married, and had three children basically the same age, and she always made room for her ingrate brother. She always included him, even though I'm sure she'd rather have had that time for herself. Because she wanted him to feel part of a family. It's just that Luke can't be bothered. And he has one kid and the mouthiest wife in the galaxy. It's not like he couldn't find the time. But with Luke and Mara it's a one way street, all taking, NO giving. Leia cringing everytime she sees him. Yeah, what a great brother.......



(As for marriage, I think too many people write their siblings off. Most marriages nowadays don't last. Like 60%. You siblings will be your siblings for life. Like it or not. Most of the people out there will go through 2 or 3 spouses, so they should keep famly important. I hate people that get a brainfart when they get married and ignore you, and then when it's over, you're supposed to be available to hear their weepy complaining 24/7. Yeah, like where were you when I needed you? Fairweather friends are fairweather friends, whether related or not. It has to do with consideration.
Anyhoo.... There's things I have gone through with my siblings that we cannot discuss with others, because we have had this unique experience. It's our thing.)

 

You have to admit Luke is pretty henpecked.


Well you got me on that...he is probably more than a little henpecked. I have never really cared for Mara since she went off on Leia in the NJO. I always thought Leia should have beat on her or Luke should have told his wife to shut up. Before that I was always pretty ambivalent about her. I dunno, I just assume that because she was near by and he saw her, he probably felt the need to tell her. I don't know if we can villify him on this one for picking her first. I am sure that if Leia got information about their parents and Han happened to be in the vicinity he'd know before Luke did. I think he might have actually in Tatooine Ghost. She did make a call to Luke, however, to mention what she was finding out. I think he told her he had already known but had not told her because he knew how she felt about their father and did not think she would want to know.

 

hmm. quite simply, i liked mara before she married luke.

on a different topic...i have a question: is there supposed to be a baby born in the dark nest trilogy, the legacy of the force series, or both??

 

I've heard in the Dark Nest trilogy? Tenel Ka, maybe?

 

Please God of Troy, NOT Jaina and Zekk.