The Official Dark Nest I: The Joiner King Discussion Thread (spoilers allowed)

Well, despite cancelling my pre-order...I'll still got two copies of JK in the mail today. (I had ordered one for me and a friend a while back and cancelled). So I have two copies to send to anyone that wants one. Just give me a PM.

 

I just finished TJK.


Don't want to spoil anyone.



I'll start off with the good points. Han and Leia were done well. Leia has really gotten a mouth on her. Ben was adorable. He cracked me up. I thought the description of the Jedi training was neat. R2's thing was cool too. I thought the tidbit about the Fel "shadow child" was interesting. I had alway wondered about that.

Now for the bad, and there is a lot. The new Jedi/Force I don't like. I can see it falling. The thing was Jaina really irritated me. I am a huge Jaina fan. I cannot believe she wasn't strong enough to resist the brainwashing. Zekk was just... yuck. There was too little Jag Fel. I hope that the next two are better.

Oh yeah, and the whole thing with Jacen and Tenel Ka... go Jacen!

By the way, did anyone think it was just weird when Jaina was thinking about Jag and Zekk was like we're over him?

 

Well when the initial J/TK spoilers came out we were like yayz! Then um, after reading it...? Yeah um Jacen? Sleeping with the Hapans for some shiny new spaceships? DUDE. Your sister's supposed to be Yun Harlot, not you!!!

I think it's kind of cool that Octa is a master. It means that ten years after Miko Reglia's death, she has moved on to become something powerful and wise. ^_^ Good to see that even if the Myrkr kids haven't healed, at least somebody has.

Alema and flowers and sex. Is this the first time the word sex has been explicited stated in Star Wars?

I don't think the Jaina and Jag fans have any cause for worry. The Jaina and Zekk fans should bawl though--there's no way the current arrangement is going to last (if it did, then their relationship is SERIOUSLY messed up)--and once it ends the odds are Jaina will land in Jag's arms.

Dammitz I like Zekk. What's with all the character assassination? As a man of strict principles there's no way he would want a threesome. >_< Agh poor Zekk. If Denning kills him off I will be really really really really really really really sad. You hear that, Mr. Denning?!?!?!? I will not allow Zekk to become a casualty in the shipping war!

Anyhow, at this rate it looks like the most likely threesome Zekk is going to get is with Jag and Jaina. >_<

 

Your sister's supposed to be Yun Harlot, not you!!!

Don't worry. If Zekk survives and loses Jaina to Jag again, we'll just give him Tahiri. Now that she's off Zonoma Sekot she'll be the perfect choice to console him.

 

Shipping Wars? LMFAO.

Anywho, glad to hear that there's still hope for Jaina and Jag. I was tearing my hair out there for awhile...

Speaking of Jag, and bringing back a topic of a few pages back, yes, Jag is the nephew of Wedge Antilles (Wedge and Jag's mother Syal are siblings), and yes, I believe Jag does think of Wedge as an uncle. Obviously, they may not have quite the uncle-nephew relationship that Luke has with his niece and nephew, but that's because Jag had no contact with Wedge until he was 18 years old. On top of that, instead of being able to establish a nice comfy uncle-nephew relationship, Jag was under the command of Wedge Antilles, and both being the professionals that they are, maintained their relationship as a strictly-professional one. I believe Jag has a LOT of respect for Wedge, especially after flying under his command, and I believe Wedge thinks of Jag as a talented young man and certainly part of the family. You have to understand that the Antilles family and the Fel family have only recently been back on speaking terms, so it's to be expected that some ample time is necessary to warm up to each other.

 

I think it was the first time, now that I think about it.

I was kind of surprised that Jacen did what he did, but it was kind of out of his character. I found it kind of interesting.

There we go! Tahiri's not with anyone. Plus, now they both have had beings messing with their brains.

 

Can someone please post the Padme/Anakin prequel spoilers in relation to this book.

Thanks.

 

What's wrong with that?

While on that note...

I think this is the frist time not only the word sex was used in the Star Wars Universe, but also the concept of homosexuality was too (well, more bisexuality in this case, but still).

Poor Zekk, him sharing emotions with Jaina caused him to develop an attraction to Jag, who doesn't know what to make of it (giggle snort). I'm wondering how this will play out. I'm hope Denning does something with it, it would make the story seem, I dunno, a little more real I guess.

Denning likes to take risks, he killed off Anakin in Star by Star, and this book alone he has made Ben, a Skywalker, be afraid of the Force and be normal (I like this a lot), had Alema using the word sex (and being more sexual than most characters) Jacen becoming darker, having Zekk sharing an affection with Jaina for Jag. Very interesting.

 

Is this the first time the word sex has been explicited stated in Star Wars?


"Ever had sex in hyperspace?"

 

Look back a couple of pages.

 

Hey guys

I was thinking along the same lines as that 'Has Denning even read the NJO novels that he didn't write' comment. The other NJO authors worked at developing a relationship between Jaina and Jag, and Denning basically took a sharp turn in the other direction. That was the only problem I had with the book, that whole Jaina/Zekk thing just didn't sit right...

 

oh right. Akanah. And now she's back too, hitting on Jacen.

Oh, stop crying about how Jaina isn't with Jag. We all know how it's going to work out. ^_^

 

They broke up in the Unifying Force guys.

They haven't even SPOKEN in five years.

With all due respect, in the words of Syndrome from the Incredibles regarding this relationship...

"That ship has SAILED."

 

You're probably right. I just didn't like the build-up to nothing, that's all.

 

If it's any consolation I'm reminded of OTHER shipping. Jaina/Zekk is not a romantic subplot. It's them being brain grafted to one another. Star Wars isn't particularly subtle in its depiction of the opposite sex and neither is Troy Denning. How does he show the attraction between Jacen/Tenel Ka...I dunno, they have SEX. How does he show Jaina/Zekk? He doesn't.

Jag might be being alluded to, however Zekk certainly isn't. Neither is Kyp in the book.

There was a serious romantic triangle (with Jag the clear favorite) in NJO but Zekk hasn't been an object de'crush in over a decade for Jaina now.

 

"That ship has SAILED."

So it is ok to kill off Jag now?

 

Hopefully, the answer to that is yes.

 

FORCEBlLADE posted:
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I still don't get why Artoo is trying to hide this from Luke adn Leia. He does have no reason to. Unless, he thinks Luke and Leia might end up blaming themselvesfor their father turning.
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Rhonderoo posted:
...but all I can think of is that Artoo thinks that if they find out he went to the dark side to save them, they may blame themselves in an abstract way.

Me:

Maybe that's how this "new" concept of the Force ties in with the OJO. There's a mention made of how it's the intentions of a Jedi in regards to a particular action that make that action light or dark. And this may be the clincher: Luke, Leia, Mara, and the other Masters may realize that the traditional view of the Force was indeed correct: Anakin Skywalker's intention was to save his wife. An honorable intention, as I'm sure most of us would agree. So if Anakin went to the Dark Side with this honorable intention, what did killing Jedi and innocent children have anything, really, to do with saving Padme's life? Sure, we can argue that he had to serve Palpatine to that Anakin would have the power---or whatever---to save her...but his fall was so hard, that even his good intentions did not save him. And why was that fall hard? A pure, noble goal like saving the one you love shouldn't make you fall, correct? Vergere had it right when she said that Darkness comes from within, but she didn't make allowances for the darkness that exists all around, not necessarily of a creature's making. Anakin Skywalker is a good example of a Jedi having a---"Light-sided" goal, if you will---and with the mantra of "the ends justify the means," destroys the foundations of everything he's ever been taught. The NJO are heading down this path, which raises the thought again, "maybe the Yuuzhan Vong did win after all."

It is not always what we intend to do, but what we actually do that marks us apart from the Light or Dark. There's an old saying..."The road to hell is paved with good intentions...."

I, for one, am glad that the wonderful Troy Denning put some doubt in Luke's mind. In his heart, he knows that the Jedi are on dangerous ground and the decisions such as




****SPOILER*****




ceasing the use of Force-lightning on Welk prove just that. I think the Jedi as a whole are skirting the Dark Side, but Luke still has more Light than most.

The "moral relativity" issue in the books, plot device or conversation stimulator aside, I find quite intriguing. It disturbs me to see how neatly this "new" view fits in with our own world....and while I like some meaty thoughts to chew on, I am a bit sad that Luke's Jedi have come to this point. I always liked the simpleness of Light vs. Dark....it feels like yearning for a simpler time, really.

And now I just want to say a couple of things about The Joiner King.
I am a very happy, contented reader to just see Troy Denning at the helm. Luke, Mara, Leia, Han and various others feel more like real, living people instead of "faithful" (ahem) caricatures. I have a favorite habit of marking the bottom corners of pages that contain at least one hysterical line or thought-provoking query/sentence....and I've marked quite a few already. The higher the number of dog-ears, the better the writer....

Ben does sound a lot like Anakin at that age, which I find fascinating, mostly because there have been soooo many authors and sooo many character inconsistencies that it's nice to see someone tale the time to know the characters before setting off into uncharted territory with them.

And Jacen....well, all I can say is wait and see, but Jacen put himself in a nutshell for me in Traitor when he called himself "an intellectual bleeding-heart." Thinking and meditating are all very fine, and appropriate, but going back and forth between the front lines is just plain annoying

 

Remember to rate the book in the Lit Review Thread once you've read it!

 

Maybe that's how this "new" concept of the Force ties in with the OJO. There's a mention made of how it's the intentions of a Jedi in regards to a particular action that make that action light or dark. And this may be the clincher: Luke, Leia, Mara, and the other Masters may realize that the traditional view of the Force was indeed correct: Anakin Skywalker's intention was to save his wife. An honorable intention, as I'm sure most of us would agree. So if Anakin went to the Dark Side with this honorable intention, what did killing Jedi and innocent children have anything, really, to do with saving Padme's life? Sure, we can argue that he had to serve Palpatine to that Anakin would have the power---or whatever---to save her...but his fall was so hard, that even his good intentions did not save him. And why was that fall hard? A pure, noble goal like saving the one you love shouldn't make you fall, correct? Vergere had it right when she said that Darkness comes from within, but she didn't make allowances for the darkness that exists all around, not necessarily of a creature's making. Anakin Skywalker is a good example of a Jedi having a---"Light-sided" goal, if you will---and with the mantra of "the ends justify the means," destroys the foundations of everything he's ever been taught.

That's what I'm thinking. There is a reason Luke is going to find out about his mother, IMO. With Anakin's fall coming to light and the revelation that it wasn't for power in the general sense may have a real impact on Luke, who seems to be unsure at times. I'm thinking that maybe they see he was good and did this for a reason that started out good, then the dark side took over. One of the things I'm having trouble with on the new view of the Force is there was a supernatural effect to Anakin's fall once he knelt before Palptine from his eyes rolling to the difference in his demeanor. Not only that, yellow eyes. Yellow eyes! (Not to mention strangling the wife that he was trying to save in the first place, which he would have never done if he hadn't been insane with the dark side at that point. That is not necessarily an entity on it's on, but it's something different than the person just "using their anger" and letting go to me. Maybe Luke sees that it does consume you if you take the first step, which is something that they don't seem to be looking at in the new view. Or maye their strength is supposed to be in being able to hold back, unlike Anakin did.

Don't get me wrong though, this Luke in TJK is much better than the Luke that wrung his hands over the Dark Side in half of the books out there.

 

I did, but I wan't specific spoilers... not a little, i want the specifics!

Thanks

 

If you're referring to Jaina and Jag I don't think that is true. I believe when she recalls her feelings for him in TJK she specifically references their memorable encounters. That I believe was after the end of TUF. That was his promise to her after all.

I'll try to find the passage I'm referring to you but I believe its right after Jaina finds herself sleeping next to Zekk with his leg over her.

 

She thought about it during the dinner I think...

 

Please disregard this post if you've already read it. I referenced an author's interview and now it seems I might have had the wrong author, making my point moot.

However, once I find the actual interview, which I know I have somewhere, I might be back to repost.

 

I don't remember anything like this Are you sure it was Mr. Denning?