Lit The Official Fate of the Jedi: Ascension Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Luke brought up the election in his interview with Perre Needmo and implied that he thought Dorvan would be elected HOS. That was in fact a deliberate action to give his endorsement. In later POV it's obvious Luke wanted and expected Dorvan to be elected.

 

I'm told there is a quote in this book that pretty much puts Vol on par with Luke in power. If anyone could find the quote and page number I would appreciate it.

 

Pg 47: This is Abeloth thinking: "Vol had much the power of Skywalker, combined with experience, and it had been a devastating encounter."

 

... what. The. Kriff?

I haven't read the book yet, but this Ben and Vestara business is very disturbing.

Ben should NOT be turning into an abusive scumbag, nor should Vestara's arc turn her into a wilting flower. Both of them have been victims of abuse (desensitization, betrayal and torture in Ben's case, and desensitization, cultural expectations and Taalon's psychosis in Vestara's), but "let's turn our young hero into an abusive boyfriend" is NOT a way to explore and deal with past traumas.

EDIT: OK, I read some more details in another thread ... and it still sounds kriffed up. Here's hoping a good psychotherapist is a character in Apocalypse. And no, that's NOT meant as a joke, because both Ben and Vestara seem to need one.

 

Dpn't worry from Vestara's last lines in the book she is well on her way to becoming a Yandere

 

The 'Ben abuses Vestara' business is vastly overblown, and stems largely from taking a scene rather broadly out of its very tortured context. Golden was trying to make a rather complex point about trust and love and the unconditional and rather overwhelming nature of both, that a few blows were exchanged in the process is perhaps not ideal, but not really surprising for two teenagers with extensive military training. Especially considering how Vestara pretty much utterly betrays Ben and everything he stands for at the end of the book. That's actually a huge plot development and it casts significant doubt of Vestara's potential to even survive this series much less continue on as Ben's love interest which is actually one of the finer advancements we've seen in a long time.

As a whole, I have mixed feelings about Ascension. It is written in a very fast paced frame, which helps to gloss over the head scratching, and at least it moves to resolve a lot of the complex messes that had emerged earlier in the series, sometimes in unexpected ways, though also by occasionally simply ignoring certain elements, such as the hypothetical Lost Tribe fleet. For the most part the Lost tribe does quite well in this book, being portrayed with surprising cunning, though perhaps too much understanding of a society that they only entered, very, very recently, but their attempt to manipulate the government, somewhat absurd though it is, it actually a believable use of their powers.

Ascension at least tries to resolve many of the problems regarding the Jedi and the government that had arisen previously, though it's conclusion is very unsatisfying ways and with at least one astonishingly pathetic moment: when Luke announces in one sentence that the Jedi will be completely leaving the government and then in the next says he wants Dorvan to be chief of state. That was real smooth, there, yeah. The practical problems of the change over are also largely ignored. Needmo openly asks how the Jedi will function without government backing, won't they be vigilantes, and Luke proceeds to offer a smooth talking-points style non-answer. So questions of say, what happens when the Jedi break the law in the performance of their missions, or some sovereign state hangs a 'no Jedi allowed' sign over their planet are ignored. Also, apparently no one in the GA military has the stones to demand the Jedi give back all those shiny top-secret stealth fighters they were given for use...

Still, it was generally a positive move, though Luke did have to come in and lay down the law by fiat and was far too forgiving of everyone's transgressions, especially in calling the entirely unnecessary coup necessary.

The Daala versus Jag stuff is interesting, if kind of vague at times, and exactly why Daala decided she must take control of the Empire as her personal vengeance makes limited sense, but she is insane, so I suppose that can be forgiven. Not sure what to think of the whole 'eternal life serum' thing that's used as something of a macguffin here. That's a big can of worms to open, even if Getelles promises to shut things down. Probably should have smeone go exterminate the drochs for good in order to tie up that particular loose end.

I found that, somewhat bucking the trend of previous FotJ novels, the exploration parts of this one were actually quite weak. Tramping about on a bunch of Sith worlds we've pretty much all seen before, and are just as ruined and evil as ever isn't interesting, and raises the perpetual question of why no one has base delta zeroed such things ever.

All in all Ascension does a lot of cleaning up in preparation for the grand finale, oftentimes in a very hurried and rather bloody way (culminating in the nigh-unbelievable impatience of a being that's been trapped in one place for 100,000 years, Abeloth might be impulsive, but to her a few days is a blink), but considering the alternative was to let things devolve further, I'll take it. However, I'm not sure where the climax will take us even now.

 

I had to look up your reference, and I could see one last fight between them.

On rereading the actual excerpt from Ascension, it does start off somewhat equal in terms of violence. But it rapidly degenerates into a very condescending scene. I don't think Ms. Golden intended for it to come across as such. But how it plays out, combined with the ending and how Ben acts within it, makes the entire thing come off terribly.

 

Disappointed by the lack of appearance by the One Sith. It could be that the hounds, like many of the dead Sith Lords, don't consider the One Sith true Sith, or that they refuse to reveal the existence of the One Sith to someone like Vestara. Though I would like to see a confrontation between One Sith and someone from the Lost Tribe. I feel that the One Sith would wipe the floor with the Lost Tribe.

 

He is my theory: a group of Lost Tribe Sith did go to Korriban as part of Abeloth's plan, and got their butts kicked by the One Sith. They were tortured into revealing why they were there, and the One Sith used the advance warning to go into hiding and prepare for Luke's arrival, and instructed the hounds to hide their presence if they were somehow questioned.

 

So... I basically found the Jag plotline to be the only really interesting one here.

LOVED the ambush scene with all the Moffs, Daala, Jag, Empire of the Hand (woot!), and (possibly) Pellaeon's illegitimate son... oh, and who do we think Jag was referring to when he thought about 'him and Daala playing the same game' or something, wondering if those they had called to their aid would come- the Chiss?

Also... Jag and Ashik's sneaky conversation in front of Tahiri about what 'no one will expect'... going to declare HIMSELF emperor? Perhaps...?

Otherwise- a lot of plot that hasn't moved since book 2.

 

Fantastic book (audiobook form), as has all the FOTJ books been so far. There are some scenes in this series that really get to you.

I only HATE having to wait clear until April of 2012 to finish the series off. That's a ridiculous wait.

 

Finished the book and I have to say, very enjoyable. As always the Luke, Ben, and Vestara always proves to be the most interesting. In fact. any characters that join their story line become much more enjoyable. Seeing Luke and Jaina interact and banter was very much welcome. More skywalker-solo extended family scenes, please!

Vestara's action at the end. Bleh, no which way around it, unforgivable from Ben's perspective. Makes me wonder if they are going to use it for immediate pay off in the next book or make it far more reaching. If they are intending to use Vestara for a tragic end foil, they set up another love interest before they axe the Ben/Ves angle. On a side note, I remember what they did to Anakin/Tahiri, Jacen/Tenel Ka, Jaina/Zekk and first love relationships don't seem to end well for the skywalker-solo family.

Allana's scenes are always fun, but I wish they connected a bit more to the series itself. Too bad, she isn't older else she could get her own book series with kids her age a-la young jedi knights.

All the politics in this book are so very... skippable. Just because real life politics is such a wasteland, doesn't mean it has to be reflected in the books or even be a focus. I'd very much rather read a EU novel where the characters are reacting to the political climate than to actually be immersed in politics (and having the politics mind numbingly described, ugh).

Thankfully, I avoided the spoilers on the board this time around. Very much helped going into the book unbiased with out of context spoilers.

EDIT: just read parts of the topic calling Ben an abusive boyfriend. I haven't read something so amusing in awhile. I think the two hardly fit stereotypical gender roles. He's Jedi, she's sith. They slice people ad-nausem for pages at a time, and people get all up in arms about that scene? Also did you "abuse" folks not read the end of the book where she comes into her little revelation? How does that abuse angle work there? I think normal relationship rules are thrown out the window when Vestara has the mind set as shown in the FOTJ novels.

 

So is Lahka Kai killed when abeloth unleashes her powers on kesh and if so how does Gavar take it?

 

The important question though, was there another way to make her point about trust and love? Absolutely there was.

 

Yes

And Gavar's reaction is Eh, I'll get a new Wife.(He has been influenced by Abeloth)

 

so ves is redeemed the way mara was. figures it seems like we have three redeemers revan, luke and ben shall i add the exile she redeemed visas

 

my only negative thing about Ascension is the test that Ves had to go through on Upekzar, why couldn't she face the Dream Singer with Natua instead of letting it kill Natua.
PS i hope she and Ben stay together and work past this

 

I enjoyed this - quite a few twists and turns. However, I groaned at the preview of Apocalypse when the Killicks reappeared. I hope they don't play a huge part in the next book.

 

vestara was not really redeemed. i have to say that i am very sad at the last page or so of this novel. I was surpised at myself at how dishearted i was by the ending. To my shock i found at that moment that i really really care about Vestara, and i was so ready to see her as a jedi besides Ben. Now she is going to be sacrificed probably and it will be the greatest character tragedy by far since Mara. To some degree, worse than Mara , because we had years of Mara and very little time with Ves.

 

Other excellent moment:
'Little Boy Blue'- Jag has a Napoleon complex!!!

 

Definitely not redeemed. Vestara failed the all the important choices test. She had a choice of what do, but when given the consequence of Ben dying, she made the "easy" and "odds-safe" choice of saving his life and her life by sacrificing another. Ben passed his test with ship in LOTF (which was not written as well, in my opinion, weirdo cannibalism scene). Jacen failed his test in the beginning of LOTF, in a different way perhaps because he felt killing Nelani was his ONLY choice. However, Vestara was oddly pragmatic. She would not sacrifice herself, would not sacrifice Ben, do she went for option 3 of sacrificing the other. Ho, boy, only thing I can think of to redeem Vestara in Ben's eyes is if she chooses to... well I don't even know.

 

This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the situation. (And Mechalich's earlier comment refuting the "abuse" silliness was well said, too.) I really hope that this situation can be turned around in Apocalypse in a way that no one anticipates, because otherwise I'll be very sad.

 

When it comes to Sith women and Skywalker men, "yan" sums it up. Lumiya, even if she's swimming in a river on Tatooine the whole time. Talon, pretty much.

By contrast, Zekk was pretty levelheaded with Jaina.

 

Not on par with Luke. What she thought was that he had much of Luke's power. I'd say that around 70% would be an ideal measure. Of course, even then she is not quite correct. She has not really faced a fully unleashed Luke, and made the same mistake that many other villains did - underestimate Luke until it was too late for them.

 

I'm well into the book and finding it my favorite of the current series by far.

I don't get the "official review" nailing it with a 1.5. For me, the politics were very well done, the planet-hopping was greatly appreciated, as was the overall "Star Wars" feel.

The characterizations are great, the POVs done well- I really have no complaints.

So far, I'd give it an "A" rating.