The *Official* OT changes/SEs/ Archival discussion thread.

Great posts, DarthToeJam.

Keep it up.

-Otis

 

For me, replacing Sebastian Shaw in ROTJ would be the one change that would really disturb me.

I just can't see them doing it.

 

I am really shocked we finely are about to get the ot on dvd and all you people do is complain. I for one am extremly excited to be able to walk into a store on the morning of sept 21 and walk out with the three movies I have wanted most on dvd since I made the decision to switch from vhs.

lucas has been pretty clear since 1997 that the o-ot no longer exists. I don't belevit it for a second but I am not going to bad mouth a man who has givin to his fans so much. people who complain about the money machine of star wars should just stop buying. the market will only be flooded with things while the demand is there. well it's there.

this is not going to be the only relese of star wars on dvd. there will be more there may even be an ultimate edition in a few years. butr for people to say how upset they are because the special editions are the version we are getting in september is sad.

these movies are the heart of why we are on this board. what ever version. we should be celibrating that we will actually have them now.

 

this is not going to be the only relese of star wars on dvd. there will be more there may even be an ultimate edition in a few years. butr for people to say how upset they are because the special editions are the version we are getting in september is sad.

It's not sad. It would be sad if we knew the pre-SE versions of the films were going to hit DVD eventually, but we don't. Lucas has said that will never happen. And for many of us, we can't understand why. Directors have recut and jazzed up their films for years. They never deleted their original efforts from history before.

L8r

 

I think it really sucks that the original versions aren't going to be on DVD, but I guess the Special Editions are better than not having SW on DVD at all. I just want everyone to remember as they watch their SW DVD's that GREEDO DID NOT SHOOT FIRST!

 

this is not going to be the only relese of star wars on dvd. there will be more there may even be an ultimate edition in a few years. butr for people to say how upset they are because the special editions are the version we are getting in september is sad.

Then you must lack the proper respect for the integrity and work of the original versions which have been the official versions for well over 20 years if you don't see why people are disappointed. According to Lucas, the versions we poured millions of our devoted dollars into were just a dream. That money went a long way in helping him hold himself up (although he did have his various projects too) over the late 80s and the 90s. Now, having gotten fatter in the wallet, he runs away and says that version we bought was but a "work-in-progress". C'mon here Lucas.

Disney, Universal, Warner Bros. and Fox have released quite a few DVDs that include *both* versions of a certain movie on the same disc! This is a great gesture to consumers. I'm not expecting this for the Star Wars OT because it would take up too much space on the disc (or maybe not) but in this age of DVD I don't feel Lucas is using its possibilities to its fullest.

As for why I don't like some of the SEs additions, imagine being familiar with something for a decade or two, and then to have it "tweaked" and "modernized".
How about we suddenly change some lines and erase some of the original audio of the classic Beatles records? Bring in some sound-alikes singers to redub it, and then repackage and resell it. Forget releasing those old scratchy records on CD, no one cares about that. The "Beatles Special Edition" would make a great buck or two.

 

Wonder why the Episode 1 and 2 DVDs were recently discontinued? I called Fox Home Entertaiment's consumer hotline asking them when will Episode 1 and 2 be re-released on DVD now that they are currently Discontinued, I was told that they would become available again once Episode 3 is released on DVD.
After hearing this I've come to this conclusion.

DVD box set of the Original Trilogy in late 2004 to promote Episode 3 release in theaters.

DVD box set of the Prequel Trilogy in late 2005 to promote the DVD release of Episode 3.

What do you think?

 

Directors have recut and jazzed up their films for years. They never deleted their original efforts from history before.

Not true. First, Lucas hasn't "deleted" anything. I still have the original versions on laser and VHS. No armed Lucasfilm soldier has come to my door demanding I destroy it. Not releasing an old work on the current new format is not the same as deleting it.

Second, Directors HAVE refused to release their original versions -- namely Steven Spielberg. You cannot get the 1977 release version of Close Encounters on DVD. For more than a decade all you could get was the 1980 Special Edition. The DVD version that is on store shelves now is a combination of the original version and the SE. Where's the outrage about Spielberg destroying CE3K? I can't get the theatrical release of Bladerunner on DVD either - just the Director's Cut. All you purists should be demanding all those versions too.

According to Lucas, the versions we poured millions of our devoted dollars into were just a dream.

He has never said any such thing. He said he thinks of the SEs as the new official version -- and they are.

That money went a long way in helping him hold himself up (although he did have his various projects too) over the late 80s and the 90s. Now, having gotten fatter in the wallet, he runs away and says that version we bought was but a "work-in-progress". C'mon here Lucas.

Ah, the "Lucas owes us" arguement again. You and every other fan poured your millions into Star Wars of your own free will. Lucas supplies a product and you chose to buy it. If you don't like his new product, don't give him your money. Lucas never "ran away" at all. His rational about the originals being a work in progress is a completely valid artistic point of view. You don't have to like it, and you don't have to support it with your dollars.

In this age of DVD I don't feel Lucas is using its possibilities to its fullest.

Perhaps we should wait to find out what he's actually releasing before we condemn him.

As for why I don't like some of the SEs additions, imagine being familiar with something for a decade or two, and then to have it "tweaked" and "modernized".

By that logic, he shouldn't release of the OT on DVD at all. He should re-release VHS tapes - because THAT'S what we're all familiar with. Bad audio, crappy resolution, faded colors - but hey, that's what we know.

The "Beatles Special Edition" would make a great buck or two.

If the original members (assuming they were all alive) wanted to do it, then that's cool. And if they can make a buck from it, rock on. No one's taking away my earlier Beatles records. The new versions would simply be that - new versions that reflect the artist's new sensibilities. There is nothing wrong with that. They aren't destroying anything, so why bother getting so upset about it?

 

How about we suddenly change some lines and erase some of the original audio of the classic Beatles records? Bring in some sound-alikes singers to redub it, and then repackage and resell it. Forget releasing those old scratchy records on CD, no one cares about that. The "Beatles Special Edition" would make a great buck or two.

Something similar is happening and has already happened. The Yellow Submarine songtrack features remixed and remastered Beatles songs with changes to the existing mixes. New stereo mixes with vocals in the center and a more natural soundstage... DIFFERENT than the original releases. Let It Be...Naked. Remixed and remastered with production elements REMOVED. Different takes of classic songs like LET IT BE.

The issue here is not which version do *I* like better. I have both versions. No one came in and took my original CD of Let It Be. I can still listen to those all I want. Or I can listen to Let It Be... Naked. The choice is mine alone. Just because a new version is out does not make the old one irrelevant.

Same for me with the SEs or possible future changes. I still have the originals. I can watch them all I want.

As for future SE/AE treatment of TPM or AOTC... go for it. I will embrace those exactly as I have the SEs of the older films. There is no double standard here so don't assume one.

 

"Second, Directors HAVE refused to release their original versions -- namely Steven Spielberg. You cannot get the 1977 release version of Close Encounters on DVD. For more than a decade all you could get was the 1980 Special Edition. The DVD version that is on store shelves now is a combination of the original version and the SE. Where's the outrage about Spielberg destroying CE3K? I can't get the theatrical release of Bladerunner on DVD either - just the Director's Cut. All you purists should be demanding all those versions too. "



I agree that the original versions of such movies should also be on DVD.
Naturally I care more if STAR WARS is on DVD, because I actually give a crap about it.

 

I do want to clearify one thing. I am first and foremost a fan of the o-ot. I have been a star wars nut since I was three years old and saw it in the theater in 1977. those are the movies I grew up with and love. I have several copies purchased over the years of yhe o-ot on vhs. I would be thrilled if they were put out on dvd. but as of now that is not going to happen. but since dvd has become accepted by the masses and star wars is noticibly missing form the titles on my shelf. I embrace any version that will be released. would prefer the originals. but accept the se. and if it should be some crazy ut then fine. just give me star wars on dvd.

what I was saying is that it is sad that people can be angry with lucas.

 

If the SEs had come out first, and then Lucas came out with what we now know as the "originals" 20 years later, would anyone think the originals were so great? I'll trade matte paintings and transparent snowspeeders for Greedo shooting first any day.

 

Special effects are not what makes a movie great. It is story, plot, and dialogue. It's great characters who seem to be real.

I will take a plot that agrees with the characters over great special effects any day.

 

Right, but I don't see any plot change in the SEs. The .002 seconds of Greedo shooting first don't change my perception of anything that happens in the saga.

 

The .002 seconds of Greedo shooting first don't change my perception of anything that happens in the saga.

Exactly. Over obsessive fanboys have blown this way out of proportion. That split second doesn't make a difference in Han's character at all. It's not like they added a CGI puppy sitting on Han's lap. My only complaint is technical -- that Han's "Yeah..." was missing and that the shot itself is a little dodgy. If they fix it, cool. If they don't, cool.

 

Directors have recut and jazzed up their films for years. They never deleted their original efforts from history before.

Funny I still have my copys of the O-OT it's not deleted.

The OT is comign to DVD. I'm happy and there are others that are happy. I can live with this.

 

I will take a plot that agrees with the characters over great special effects any day.


I'd rather have both. I watched the OT yesterday, since my car is in the shop due to a recall and I've gotta say the ships and space scenes really do look like they were made in the 70's and 80's. The ships look like the toys in my office. They are so outdated and needed to be fixed. The Rancor scene almost makes me want to vomit. The ANH Jabba is pathetic and to be honest they really needed to cg Yoda in the OT. I'm not saying add scenes, although the Emperor would be nice in ANH, but they really needed to re-do the space scenes to make the movies blend.

I doubt this is the final version of these films on DVD. I think everyone is just tied up in E3 to make any of these changes right now.

 

"The Rancor scene almost makes me want to vomit."

Oh just cut it out, really. Physically sick because of some choppy bluescreen? Bah! A bit much, I'd say.

I prefer the original versions of the Original Trilogy. I'd like them as crisp as possible, sound and video, but I don't care if Ben's saber isn't its best in the duel or I can see outlines around the ships in fights. I don't care about the bluescreen problems with the rancor or any of the dozens of other things tweaked or "fixed" in the Special Editions.

Personally, I think Lucas is being a jackaninny about this. People didn't like the Special Editions as much as the Original Trilogy. It's plastic, overproduced entertainment, like Britney Spears. The Original Trilogy shows its age, and in that, its quality. Because you don't need the shiny effects of the new trilogy in the old, the photorealistic computer images; why?

The story holds up on its own without them. Lucas has lost sight of the original story, though I don't think he has with the new trilogy. It's different, bigger, less personal, but that is part of the trick, people. Anyway, the old trilogy was mroe character driven and based - character creates action creates story. That is why we love the old trilogy so much, the classic trilogy. Why mess with the classics?

I don't like Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I think it shows its age in bad ways and that its director's cut is weak. The movie is weak, in my mind, a literary attempt at a sci-fi story that really doesn't come through. I do not care if both versions are released because of that.

Nor do I think every version of every film needs to be released. Some movies are released in the theatres in truncated versions because of studio head idiots making bad running time or pop-editing decisions, and those movies should be restored and the old, lesser version forgotten. But, the original trilogy was not a lesser version. It should not be forgotten, and it will be, in its original form, if Lucas pushes these damned special editions and archival editions more and more.

I for one will find a copy of the widescreen THX polished Original Trilogy pre-Special Edition release, used probably. I will watch those and you know what? I'll even rip them to my computer, encode them and burn them onto DVDs of my own making so I can have the OT how I wish to see it. I don't care for Lucas' decision in this case, and if he will spit on the fans by not giving them the movies they grew up with - that millions cared about* - then I will not respect his decision and go my own way.


*Close Encounters of the Third Kind really didn't capture the hearts of millions like Star Wars did and it is not a travesty if its released in a special edition. People don't care. People care about Star Wars, that is what sets it apart and that is why Lucas is just being an ass.

 

Episode IV, V and VI are coming to DVD.

It's a good day indeed.

-Otis

 

Special effects have no bearing on the story? Okay, well let's take the original King Kong and replace the stop motion monkey with cool new cgi, recall the original version and only release this new version to the public. There's nothing wrong with that. The story will be the same.

Jason and the Argonauts has those clunky stop motion skeletons. How tacky! It makes me sick whenever I see that. They could look so much better. So let's just replace them all with cgi skeletons and monsters, really go all out to make everything look modern. Oh, and recall the original version and only release this new version to the public. There's nothing wrong with that. The story will be the same.

Oooh, you know what else? The effects in The Ten Commandments look a bit sketchy, too. We should replace everything with cgi and really show the wrath of God with state of the art technology! Oh, and recall the original version and only release this new version to the public. There's nothing wrong with that. The story will be the same.

Star Wars won an Oscar for Visual Effects, as did the other two films (Empire: Special Achievement Oscar, Jedi: SA VE Editing). You know what? I don't need to see those visual effects replaced. They don't need to be replaced for me to enjoy the films. I love Star Wars, warts and all. I'm not going to complain that it looks like the films were made in '70s and '80s when the films were made in the '70s and '80s!

So now when film historians want to research the growth of visual effects throughout Hollywood's tenure, what will they think when the effects in the OT suddenly outclass everything that was released for the next 20 years? Where are they going to get their hands on the original prints? Blackmarket video? As a matter of historical preservation, a cleaned up negative for the pre-1997 OT needs to be archived for future generations. Honestly, if I knew such a thing has happened, I'd feel okay. I'd know somewhere out there Lucas is simply sitting on the real version of the OT. I can work around the fact that he'll never release it on DVD. I can't work around the fact that he deleted the films in favor of these "Special Editions".

This issue is bigger than me wanting my own personal favorite version on DVD. Future generations should know what the real Star Wars is. I loathe revisionist history.

L8r

 

Right, but I don't see any plot change in the SEs. The .002 seconds of Greedo shooting first don't change my perception of anything that happens in the saga.

It's a subtle change. Is Han a ruthless cutthroat or just a sleazy smuggler on the run?

 

Well based on everything else he does in the trilogy, he's just a smuggler on the run.

 

Does it actually say that the films are the Special Editions? For all we know they could be the Directors Cuts and have even more changes, or they could be the Originals. However if I am wrong please inform me. I'd like to know if I missed something.

 

All reports I've seen (and I think someone quoted a CNN article) say that it will be SE. If it's different, it'll be "updated" SE, not original, from what I can tell.

 

Thanx

Ya know, I am actually hopeing it's an updated special edition, like a directers cut or whatnot. I have a homemade DVD of the originals...it's not the best quality but it will satisfy my O-OT needs when im in the mood for em.