Saga The Original Sequel Trilogy (original story ideas, treatments, interviews, concepts, etc. by Lucas)

Pablo Hidalgo has never said anything about things outside his knowledge or involvement. And what he’s said has been truthful but afaik nothing that wasn’t already known

 

As far as I know, Pablo Hidalgo has read the Lucas' story treatments. So I assume that whenever he specifically talks about George's treatments (not to be confused with what Disney chose to twist, turn and change), it's true.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. His sometimes abrasive personality can be a bit off putting in terms of source reliability to me, but it’s good to know that he is at least credible.

 

This is purely speculation, but I was looking at this concept piece of Darth Talon by Iain McCaig from the early stages of development of Episode 7, and I finally realized what it reminded me of.



Specifically I’m referring to the figure behind Darth Talon, who in the TFA art book is simply referred to as the dark side of the Force. The quote attached to this art piece in the book, by McCaig, says that the figure is “the dark thing manipulating her.” Now, last year we learned that in Lucas’s ST, the villain mastermind behind Darth Talon would’ve been Darth Maul. So what if that figure is meant to be Maul, only he’s wearing armor and a helmet of some sort?

What this reminds me of is the concept pieces McCaig worked on while he was designing Darth Maul for Episode I. There are various pieces featuring Sith Knights who wear flowing robes and organic-looking armor, all of which remind me of the figure behind Talon.







And there’s no reason why a similar look could not have been recycled for Maul’s new look in the ST, especially if they wanted to keep his identity secret during most the first movie, as it’s been implied in interviews. It also reminds me a bit of the villain Marchion Ro who is currently featured in the High Republic publishing project, which we know also used some of McCaig’s unused artwork as part of their foundational design. So that could be where that idea ended up being recycled.



Like I said, this is purely speculation, and it’s just as likely the common link is simply McCaig’s being the artist. But there’s some logic to it, and it would’ve been cool to see Maul with a slightly more elaborate look.

 

Interesting! On the other hand, the idea of a big bad in SW literally being an incarnation of the dark side of the Force goes back all the way to the Splinter of the Mind's Eye story conferences in 1976, where George Lucas suggested to Alan Dean Foster an idea he said he'd wanted to do in SW 1977: "We also wanted to have [in Star Wars] a scene where Vader goes and bows before the Force…But it’s not the Force personified; it’s on the verge…Maybe it’s a shadow or something…the ultimate evil."

 

Reading between the lines of what GL has said about the ST, I think he intended the Force itself to be the villain. Which is actually a pretty interesting idea.

 

I do agree that's a possibility. And honestly I think that's the "feel" that Abrams was going for with Snoke's introduction in TFA. It's like the scene with the Emperor in TESTB but taken to another level, where you really wonder if this is some kind of evil entity rather than an alien like we've seen before. They went a very different route with that, of course.

McCaig may also have just been doing artistic explorations of what the dark side could "look like" if it were personified or illustrated in any way. This is very early-stage conceptual art, so there's no need for it to be literal by any means.

 

The idea of a dark figure of the Force that Vader bows down to ended up being merged into the character of the Emperor himself.

By 1977, Lucas was already describing the Emperor in this fashion: "The Emperor is even more powerful than Vader. He is also an agent of the Force and he’s the classic devil character. Hooded, dark figure - you don’t even see who he is."

And it was materialized in TESB:

 

I wonder if GL meant for TCW to be building up to something with the Nightsisters and Mortis.

 

Probably or at least when he decided to make his sequels he would draw a lot from that.

 

I wonder if Lucas' sequels would have been influenced by LotR. There was some of that influence in TCW. The first of those Darth Maul concept arts look like Sauron/Nazgul. Perhaps Lucas was going for something like Sauron with Maul as an ultimate manifestation of evil, so he dug out those old concept arts like he often did. It's kind of challenging to accept Maul as being the ultimate bad guy even above Palpatine, but then again, even Sauron had a master. Lucas was really able to tap into something subconscious with the look of Maul that, even though he was just a weapon of Palpatine, made him appear like a true entity of evil. Lucas described Palpatine as being like the Devil, and Maul as being all evil, and he even looks like the Devil. So it would be interesting to see how Maul would be portrayed in the Lucas sequels.

 

Keep in mind that this is TPM concept art, so it precedes the Jackson LOTR movies.

 

Does anyone have any info regarding any idea Lucas may have had as far as force ghosts and their appearance in the ST?

 

Lucas wanted to have Darth Talon as Darth Maul's apprentice in his trilogy, so does that mean he would have ignored the EU and she would have basically been a new character with the same name and look? He did acknowledge that she came from the comic books, but Lucas' ideas are hard to reconcile with her story from the comics. Previously when he had taken elements from the EU comics, like Aayla Secura, it meshed. So I wonder if they would have tried to keep the EU canon, or if they would have made it completely non-canon like Disney did.

Lucas' ST ideas seem like a composite of ideas he had for other projects during that era. The gangster element from TCW and Underworld, midi-chlorian and Force exploration from TCW, Darth Maul from TCW and Darth Talon from the Maul game. It's interesting that he wanted Talon in the Maul game. Maybe that would have tied to his ST.

 

Nothing has been revealed so far.

Yes.

You only need to look at Lucas's own movies and TCW to understand that he didn't care for what the EU established. As he explained many times, the world of Licensing is separate from his works. He may have taken elements from Licensing here and there that catch his eye but it is invariably presented differently from what the EU established. Ventress is a great example of that (even though visually she was originally conceived for the movies), but there are others.

 

So Maul was supposed to be the big big bad like he corrupted palpatine and Plauegis or he was just supposed to look like the devil?

 

No, Maul wasn't the Big Bad of the Saga. Just of the Sequel Trilogy. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Maul himself was being manipulated in some way by a cosmic-like entity (such as Son from the Mortis trilogy in The Clone Wars).

That second point is of course complete speculation, but we know Lucas was in the creative process for the ST at the same time he was working on The Clone Wars, so I think it makes sense he might lay the groundwork for a big bad there.

Darth Plagueis would I think have been another candidate, since the audience would know who he is based off of the scene in Revenge of the Sith - he wouldn't be coming out of nowhere.

 

Kinda interesting that this would've meant that there was no one single villain behind all nine movies, because of the fact that you'd have Palpatine for I-VI, and Maul for VII-IX.

 

If so, this is the biggest missed opportunity in Star Wars history.

 

An interesting interview with the writer and editor of the Marvel Star Wars line in 1983 has me curious about what concepts were off-limits in the post-Return of the Jedi universe. Louise Jones and Mary Jo Duffy dedicated a portion to the interview for how Lucasfilm would not reveal upcoming plans directly, but would veto certain plots if they came too close to things that were in the works. The specific examples given were Lahsbees in hang-gliders (diminutive furry aliens that resembled Ewoks too much), and the Empire building a second Death Star. While I'm unaware of further interviews, I think the writers and editors for the Star Wars line at the time would have a keen insight into the plans for the sequels. Another interview has Jo Duffy mention that Lucasfilm became a lot more directly involved by the end of the run and imposing more limitations. Lucasfilm communicated to Marvel that the stories were canon (at the time) and wanted to do everything in their power to avoid conflicts in the story.

Though by the time this was published, the word was already out that the prequels would be the focus of the next batch of movies, and Lucas would take at least a two year hiatus, pushing the release date of Episode I to 1987 at the earliest.

 

What source is this quote from?

 

So it would've been Maul, had they stuck with Lucas's ideas. I just read this and it justifies my feelings that it should've been him. Feelings I've had back when "Solo" came out and learned that Kasdan had liked that idea. It would've tied things together and allow for a more satisfying story.

This is why a solid plan was needed.

 

The Star Wars Archives 1977-1983

 

There's some good stuff on the Marvel comics in Starlog's 10th anniversary tribute to SW issue from 1987.

 

My question is, according to Pablo and the tfa art book iirc, Lucas stayed on board a bit AFTER they rejected his 7-9? So what stuff came from that…would be a compromise? So who knows what stuff said (between the rejection and him leaving the project) is him compromising and thus not part of his story? Didn’t Pablo lie about the grandkids ages or something? Maybe this is where that confusion lies?