ST THE RISE OF SKYWALKER mirroring and symbolism

The Goonies got slagged back in the day for ripping off Indy.

 

Forrestal, Satipo, Chester Copperpot. Who was Ochi?

 

Welcome back Hevy!

Poking my head in here from time to time (rare I know, but I've got things not in my control at the moment).

You remind me of when Padme (gave her self up believing Anakin had good in him), yet Anakin finally became cemented as Vader, as Padme expels her last breath, the Vader mask envelopes Anakin he becomes the Darth Vader we all know), we see in the funeral it is Anakin's gift in Padme's hands. Leia meanwhile holds Han's medallion;, (and as @HevyDevy said eloquently-Leia's TFA words on their parental role in a possible redemption for Kylo ("... you, me...") come true), her last breathe redeems Ben (grandson of Vader). Leia made the decision to give her self up, in a manner like her Mother. Han the father (in "no one's ever really gone fashion), spirit so to speak lives in the medallion. Leia holds Han spirit in a way. A dead Padme holds Anakin's spirit so to speak, a reversal in the narrative perhaps.

MJ

 

I do like how they incorporated all of the voices in this sequence. I'm split on whether or not we should have seen them, since I don't think all filmgoers could identify all the voices. I'm sure most Star Wars fans know who Ahsoka is, but I'm not sure if they know who Kanan, for example, is. I do like how it's easy to distinguish the voices of Liam Neeson, Frank Oz, Samuel L. Jackson, Hayden Christensen, and Mark Hamill.

 

Luke's/Ben's last line in TESB/TROS: "Ow."

 

The last Skywalker transferring his life energy to save a Palpatine, makes me wonder if the same was done by Emperor Palpatine to save Anakin (with Padme’s life energy).

 

OMG, I never noticed that!! Hilarious, hahaha!

 

I didn’t connect that with Luke (I like that though) but with Han’s “Owww!” in TESB no less.

Ben Solo now being more Han than ever. It was funny that after all that Kylo persona he finally sees he’s had to (without any force powers) get physically hurt .

 

I only noticed this on rewatch but are we to think that Leia transferred her spirit into Ben when he communicated with him, thus why she died, allowing him to communicate with the memory of Han. (So when Han says he’s “your memory” he’s partly talking about Leia, thus the “I know”, something Ben wouldn’t remember)

(Also why she sensed her son’s death at the end of her Jedi path. She had a vision of her future, which was also his future)

This of course being paralleled with Palpatine wanting to transfer his spirit into Rey, but perhaps with a different intention where he’s the one in the driver’s seat?

 

Ben Solo’s evil side Kylo Ren promises Anakin Skywalker’s evil side Darth Vader that he will finish what he started and Ben ironically finishes what Anakin started, which is to save his love interest from death.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Well said, and a very good take.

 

"In my point of view (Anakin [Darth Vader] and Ben [Kylo Ren]; the Jedi [Ben Kenobi] and [Luke Skywalker] are evil."





Cheers!

MJ

 

Forgive me if these have been mentioned.

The start of TROS is like a combination of the start of TFA/TLJ
-
-Poe getting the map and Rey going to see Luke alone mirrors Kylo getting the wayfinder and going to meet Palps.
-The routes to Skywalker and Palpatine are both complicated to navigate.
-Rey seeks help as well as answers about her origins and gets neither, while Kylo goes to Exegol to stop a threat but receives help, as well the answer of Rey’s origins.

“The dead speak”, refers to Palpatine, but also Han and the voices of the Jedi who came before, encapsulating one of the main themes of TROS of keeping the past “alive” by honouring it selflessly. (“Your mother’s gone, but what she fought for isn’t.”)

Despite the victory of the rebels blowing up the Death Star in the first film, the third film begins with another Death Star out of the blue, a copy, albeit in an unfinished state. This mirrors the defeat of the Emperor in the first trilogy and the third film in the third trilogy beginning with another Palpatine out of the blue, a copy, albeit in an unfinished state.

The cracks in Kylo’s mask are like his giant face scar. Reminders that he’s vulnerable and fallible despite his efforts to hide it.

(On a side note it’s interesting that he repairs his helmet after meeting Palpatine, as if he’s trying to hide his vulnerability from those around him, and he only removes his helmet when he talks to Rey, someone who he perhaps subconsciously wants to see the real him.)

The two suns, the two sabers, Luke/Leia, and the dyad.

The two suns symbolizing the dawn of a new era (or setting on the old one).

 

The cracks in Kylo’s mask suggest a Kylo who’s barely holding himself together, with his anger and/or his light side threatening to break through.

Rey healing Ben’s wound removed his scar, symbolizing the shattering of Ben’s mask, his dark side, allowing his true self or light side to surface.

The water splashing on Ben as Rey heals him evokes baptism, that his sins are washing away.

Hearing the voices of the Jedi who came before, Ben’s memory of Han, and Rey seeing the ghosts/memory of Luke/Leia, suggest that they’re essentially the same thing, as they symbolise that the past will live on in how it shapes the future, in how it affects us as people now, and we ought to adopt the lessons and examples of the past in order to create a bright future, like Rey adopting the Skywalker name. (They’re gone, but what they stood for, what they fought for lives on.)

 

Maybe there's a thematic link to ROTS in the TFA bridge that also involves TROS.

Padme said to Anakin 'you are breaking my heart. You are going down a path I can't follow' That path was Vader. Then she died. Meaning, she followed Anakin to the grave. Execution apart, 'science' apart, but thematically at least, that's what 'she's losing the will to live' meant. She was not losing the will to love Anakin, but Anakin meant death, that is Vader. So loving him and dying were not different from each other. Ophelia stuff. 'Incapable of her own distress' that's how she's described in the play.

Kylo's 'thank you' to Han were supposed to be Ben's last words: 'thank you for following me to my grave'. Han had said, innocently: 'yes, anything'. Anything. That meant, for Kylo: this is it. The 'test'. For Ben was only painful, and a goodbye to himself, but that was the point.

After those words, after Han's death, there would only be Kylo. 'Torn apart' would be the equivalent of Padme's broken heart, only evil.

In a strange way, killing Han was a metaphorical or spiritual suicide by a real proxy, hoping that the realness of it would made his heart whole again (that is 100% evil: but it was too late for any other thing and 'Kylo' wouldn't care about that in the slightest. Evil was good)

Twisted, satanic stuff, because only a deranged person would kill his father for a metaphor or a spiritual transformation. But not so different, as a metaphor, from Anakin following Luke in ROTJ and jumping out of his own grave, called Vader. The father was not 'truly dead'. It had not been murdered by Vader, as Obi-Wan said.

Then in TROS, 'Kylo Ren is dead'. Han's words. Suddenly, both out of that grave. Kylo's true self. As if Leia had stabbed Kylo from behind.

Then we see Han touching Ben's face, just like Shmi had done to Ani once...and Leia under a blanket. That's Shmi in AOTC. The shroud. And then mother and son go together, but Ben doesn't reappear. Where's he? Was Anakin involved? 'Rise of Skywalker' can also mean 'resurrection', and a part of Jesus' story, a fatherless person like Anakin.

 

Great write-ups both of you!! Star Wars really is a big ol' space-opera and a "greek tragedy" as one might call it.

 

Very, very nice comment. I like when people put some effort in their posts about the ST. Because there is content, there are parallels.

I also want to mention some points:
· Mustafar has trees but also the wayfinder give the vibes that even though there grow plants on this hellish lava planet meanwhile the past is not done with Vader's legacy, Kylo etc.
· Anakin wanted to avenge the murderer of his mom (Epi II); Rey wanted to avenge the murderer of her parents (Epi IX)
· In TPM Anakin landed in the control ship of the droids where he wasn't supposed to be and neither expected by the enemy; in TROS the orbaks landed on the steadfast where they weren't supposed to be and neither expected by the enemy
· In ROTS Mace Windu wants to kill weakened Sidious with a heavy strike; in TROS weakened Sidious wants to be killed by Rey with a heavy strike

 

True. Mustafar’s inclusion in the film in general is ripe with symbolism.

Brings to me the image of a near completed Death Star in Return of the Jedi.

Yup good call.

Interesting. Plus both bookends are inverted by ROTS and ROTJ in which the Emperor is expecting a young Skywalker for their duels with Dooku / Darth Vader.

And Rey deflecting Palpatine’s lightning back at him with the spirits of the past Jedi to do what Mace once could not.


Also; in eps 3-6-9...

Mace swings at Palpatine, Anakin stops the death blow.
Luke swings at Palpatine, Vader stops the death blow.
Palpatine (like in ep6) welcomes Rey’s strike, for real this time, Ben Solo’s arrival helps her resist killing him.

 

Two blue lightsabers crossing. In ROTS, Obi-Wan’s and Anakin’s cross in opposition. In TROS, Anakin’s and Leia’s cross in alliance.

 

ROTS: "I have waited a looong time for this moment, my little green friend."

TROS: "Looong have a waited... for my grandchild to come home."


Now that I think about it, the way he screams when Rey finally defeats him reminds me of his reaction to Yoda resisting his lightning attack at the end of their duel.
In truth, Yoda was with Rey in the end!

 

Not related to TROS, but Snoke dies like Greedo (killed under the table and stumbling over after being distracted by a Solo) and Kylo -'I've been waiting for this day for a long time'- speaks like Greedo.
But he failed and, as he was told, there was too much Han in him; so he channeled the Greedo-killing Solo (Han) as a revenge. Maybe he had heard the story (not a story your father would tell you)

By the way, in TROS there's a Jabba barge situation: Ben being thrown the saber after a nod (Luke in the skiff against the others) and then killing those KOR; and Rey/Leia killing Jabba/Palpatine.

 

Palpatine: Welcome home....Lord Tyrannus (trained as a Jedi Master but became a Sith [planning by Palpatine]

(Within the Republic regions point blank in the Central System) - hidden from the auspicious of the Jedi.)


Long have I waited for my grandchild to come home (Grandchild of a Sith [planned by Palpatine] but was trained to become a Jedi Master )
(In the Unknown Regions the hidden redoubt world of the Sith)


Cheers!

MJ

 

This is a virtual mirroring. The real reflection of a merely possible object:

Spoiler

The object is, evidently, Father Skywalker. Here, we see him through a series of filters: that of the cave, that of Luke's knowledge (or ignorance), etc. Later, we see how the cave, or the cave+Luke, were right in a way. 'Search your feelings, you will know it to be true'. It was true.

At the same time, Dark Luke -Luke almost turning to the dark side in ROTJ- is also prefigured. It almost became true. But in the cave we have just an unresolved reflection. An hypothetical reflection that turned out to be both true and almost true. Things that are true at some non-literal level; things that might happen.

With this is in mind, let's compare:

Spoiler

This Rey is not Empress Palpatine. She seems to belong to a post-TROS future. She has a double-bladed lightsaber and that ring.

So, what virtuality is being reflected or mirrored? Unlike Dagobah Vader, Dark Rey is not wearing a mask. As if Luke had never seen how Vader looked like before entering the cave. He would have been faced by Dark Luke, which of course would have been Vader in a way. Darth Skywalker.

This seems to be Dark Rey's mask:

Dark Rey, unlike Vader in the cave, speaks. And she speaks like Leia. That is to say, like mother. Rey Skywalker is to Leia what Leia Organa was once to Breha Organa. A daughter.

[Palpatine] killed my mother...and my father, Rey says. That is, my mother...and then my father. But the son/clone father is killed first, and we don't even see the mother being killed. What mother was killed first, and before the 'father"?

Luke's father was dead in ANH, wasn't he?TROS opening scroll:

The dead is maybe a plural.

 

In other languages of the opening scrawl, it is.

 

It hit me that unlike it's counterparts ROTS and ROTJ, TROS doesn't begin with a daring rescue operation (furthermore, there's no spectacular execution scene like in the Geonosis arena or at the Pit of Carkoon anywhere in this trilogy).
There is the rescue of Chewbacca later on, of course - and it does remind me a bit of Palpatine's rescue. A tad more so than Leia's, actually. But all three really function as mixtures of each other in the end, with their own unique touches.

EDIT: Add the rescue of Rey in TFA to that group, too