ST The Rise of Skywalker - Reviews/Reactions Thread (See Warning On Page 98)

That sounds more like waking than healing to me

 

Would have made the exact same reply with a longer quote. I tend to trim when not on a smartphone.

Now that is a point - about an ability which existed already in universe prior to a theoretically untrained character using it. You don't have the same chronological logic with regards to Force Rez.

 

yeah I thought JJ did great with rey, kylo, and Poe but finn did get the shaft. If we spent more time with Janna than that could have been a decent storyline.

 

rather chronological or not luke using it is still a huge issue, if we want to get to the nuts and bolts of it. But this is one area of the lore that I think it is wise to turn off your brain. George lucas set up the force aka the ultimate plot device and never gave it real rules on how it works or even what it is. Since he did that its up to writers and directors to use the force how they see fit. It is not ideal but it is what it is.

 

I might accept that if the makers of the ST hadn’t tossed out GL’s treatments for the ST.

 

Finn AND Rose. But at least Finn got to BE in the movie.

Phasma was clearly intended to be the new Boba Fett, and they suceeded in making her that (just not in the way they intended!). Hux and Holdo served their purpose, though. Although i do think their direction with the former in the film was bizzare. He's going to undermine the first order just to spite Ren? What? The man's is a true beliver to the point of Fanatasim, betraying them in any way to help the Resistance should be totally forgin to his mentality. And the emperor's return should be like the Second Coming to him.

The concept behind using the force to constrict someones windpipe seems pretty strightforward, he could have just figured that one out on his own. If you've figured out how to grab something with the force then sqeezing something with the force should'nt be that far of a leap.

As for Anakin/Vader he has always been a very pysical fighter. Perhaps he just did'nt want to use lightning on Obi-Wan.

 

they didnt they used parts of it, and after what george did to indiana jones 4, I was and still am for tossing a lot of his ideas into the trash.

 

I'm starting to notice in some sites' articles that people are beginning to conclude and interpret the Sith Rule of Two as a lie. That Palpatine = Plagueis = Bane with all Palpatine's talk about being All-Sith.

And that when he tells Anakin about himself killing Plagueis in his sleep, it's Plagueis-as-Sidious explaining how he did it - they want their apprentices to come go and murder them so they can go transfer themselves into the younger better body or whatever.

That would explain how it always irked me when Palpatine bragged about Anakin becoming more powerful than "either of us" almost prideful.

This would also recontextualize the RotJ Throne scene with Luke. Whatever this Sith immortality by suicide requires ritual not unlike when the light siders decide to become one with the Force as Force Ghosts. That's why later on it didn't work when Rey reflected the lightning back at Palpatine. I think the strike has to come from the "other" plus the transferer focusing the Force towards whatever ritual needs.

Not a terrible theory. Made me consider that Vader might have known and learned of this already but because he was all Frankakin, he knew Palpatine wasn't interested in ever taking over his body. It would also explain why Vader blocked Luke's strike on the Emperor. The Emperor laughed about it all but not just from a "Powaah!" way, more like a "man these Skywalkers are easy to predict. Okay let's dance some more."

 

First, they clearly didn’t use the parts where it went deep into the Force, to explore many of these questions we all have now about Force powers.

Second, have you read Rinzler’s Making of Indiana Jones book? It puts to the lie this belief that Lucas was 100% at fault for the story ideas in Indy 4. Spielberg and Koepp were just as much to blame for many of the elements that fans didn’t like. You really should read that before continuing to make statements like that.

 

My theory is similar - but that usually, the apprentice's ego wins the fight - but retains everything the master knows.

So, in this context, Newcanon Zannah (or whatever the newcanon calls Bane's apprentice) is Zannah's ego dominant, but all of Bane's knowledge and all of Zannah's knowledge within the same body.

Each Sith battle, whether Master or Apprentice wins, resulting in a more powerful entity.

And Palpatine being the latest inheritor of 1000 years of Sith knowledge and power.

 

100% agree with all the above!

It’s just JJ and another ‘magic blood’-like moment, but now he’s done the equivalent in Star Wars too without thinking through the future story-telling consequences, and why this wasn’t used in previous films.
He comes across as intelligent and thoughtful in interviews, and yet makes story telling blunders like this and many other plot holes and specialises in convenient hand-waving away (or plain just ignoring) necessary explanations i.e. Palpatine’s return, more detail about Snoke, Rey’s parents, about Ben’s turn, about Luke’s exile (whilst leaving a map?!), forgetting Rian had shown an X-wing’s Wing being used as a door in for Luke’s hut, yet all wings clearly shown when Luke raises his X-wing etc etc.
Obviously a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is necessary in many genre films, but there’s usually a ‘foundation’ of believability laid in the first film. JJ just completely tramples over the notion and turns it into full-on comic book!

 

Just re-watched the scene with Yoda and Luke from TJL on youtube. It's never implied that Luke found the text there but it IS implied that luke did'nt read them - though he never actually says he did'nt and honestly, if it turns out that he HAS had the books this whole time is pretty silly to think he has'nt at least studied SOME of whats in them.

That really bugged me too, but i think its less he forgot and more he just did'nt care.

Also, minor nitpick but why did Rey use "Red Five" and not "Rogue Leader." That's the better known callsign both in-universe and out

 

Using the Force is, normally, not like using magic spells. When you're in tune with it, it becomes an extension of you. Using it to choke someone doesn't require special training because it's such a basic act.

 

She's...not the leader of Rogue Squadron, maybe?

 

I think hux worked great in the movie. it is told visually that hux had no power left in the new movie. He was snoke's right hand man in tfa and tlj and now he is barely on a council led by ren. It is also told and shown to us just how much hux hates kylo, he was going to murder him in tlj when he was passed out. The man is very petty and self absorbed. As far as phasma she was a weak character but by god I love her deleted scene in tlj why rian didnt use that one is a big mystery.

I will say this about finn at least he became a general and might be rey's first student if he is force sensitive.

as far as all that about luke and anakin. My point remains training does not correlate to what force powers someone uses.

 

Maybe Luke foresaw Rey returning to Ach-To and repaired the door before he Force Projected to Crait.

 

no I didnt read the book but aliens was george's idea, here is a direct quote from steven, GEORGE AND I HAD BIG ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE MACGUFFIN. I DIDN’T WANT THESE THINGS TO BE EITHER ALIENS OR INTER-DIMENSIONAL BEINGS. BUT I AM LOYAL TO MY BEST FRIEND, and to me aliens did not belong in a jones movie. I hate the prequels and that was all george. His other idea for a movie aka redtails (yes I know he didnt direct it) was also very underwhelming in the way it was presented and it was a story that needed to be told. Im sorry I dont fall at the feet of George like some do, could his vision of the ST have been better. maybe but I dont believe so, judging by what he has contributed to cinema over the past 2 to 3 decades from a story stand point.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong becuse it's been a while but dos'nt the novelization for Phantom Menence refer to Bane's apprentice as a "him?"

Well, she's not technically Red Five either.

Rey Five

Fair enough, it just seemed strange given how he's been presented beforehand. His fued with Ren aside Palpatine is back, and he did'nt really seem to care when the way the FO has been set up seems bizzare. Like what was up with the one officer who likened Palpatine's group to a cult? That's excatly what the First Order is...a cult of New Order extremists. It's like if the ANP suddently found out Hitler had come back to life but Rocky Suhayda was like "I dunno, i think this guy is too extreme for us."

 

I read it as not everyone knew in the FO that palp was pulling the strings, maybe hux didnt like being lied to all these yrs, and said F it lol. Im at least taking down the man I hate.

 

One of my best freinds has the same sentiment, but honestly this is a universe were the literal power of the Christan god cuased a bunch of guys faces to melt off in the very first movie, so that was one thing i was fine with in that movie and never understood the reasoning agianst it.

Probobly the ONLY thing i was fine with in it, to be honest...

 

But if not Hux and Ren then who would have been in on the secret? Sloane and Hux senior did'nt seem to have any idea Palps was still around. Pryde, perhaps?

 

lol ok explain it away when it fits a narrative you like I got it. luke using force choke is ok bc of ummmmmmmmmmm reasons, but rey using a force power beacuse of ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm reasons is not ok. What?

 

perhaps ps I loved pryde he was everything I was hoping krennic would have been in rogue one. Either way after snoke died I got the impression that hux thought they were doomed with kylo in charge.

Also I love that scene in the last jedi aka luke's force projection and it now explains why kylo was so bent on destroying luke and not taking out the rest of the rebels. He prob had palp in his head screaming kill him, seeking revenge against the skywalkers who defeated him.

 

I feel like what they did with Finn was tease that he is force sensitive so they could leave the door open for more sequels 10 years from now. My issue with that is why didn’t they just make these films all about Rey, Finn, Poe, and Kylo’s story completely? The OT characters didn’t have to be in these movies. Their story was over in ROTJ. They were only in these movies for fan service because Disney tried to do two things at once. Introduce the saga to new fans while trying too hard to please old fans in the process thoroughly not succeeding at both. Rey, Finn, and Poe didn’t stand on there own until TROS which shows they didn’t have a clear plan for this trilogy. Rey and Kylo work the best out of anything in this trilogy but everything around them was mostly there to remind us of the OT. Rey is weighed down as character by the mystery box because nobody knew where they wanted to go with her. Rian Johnson said fine, Rey is nobody and the force could be used by anyone. JJ said no let’s continue the mystery box and when it opens all it said I am your father again like ESB ha ha ha! Palpatine doesn’t look like a guy who was seeking sexual pleasures. Come on son! He is more of an I will create life to destroy life type a guy. I just feel that the biggest flaw of this trilogy is it wanted to be the OT so bad that it failed to continue the saga story. Anakin was not seen in this movie because of the PT backlash. That final shot should have been the WHOLE SKYWALKER FAMILY! They say this was wrapping up the whole saga? Nah they were like Luke and Leia everyone loves them but the two redeemed souls Anakin and Kylo wasn’t there! Just because we want to avoid the PT at all cost. We want to remake the OT because the fans will love that for sure. I hope Disney really takes it’s time with whatever comes next. I usually don’t call for people’s jobs but I agree with those who say Kathleen Kennedy must go. I don’t care if it takes more than ten years to develop a completely new story I will prefer that. Even if I don’t like it I rather the new fans get an opportunity to get something new. They deserve it. A lot of us was fortunate enough to grow up in the late 70’s and 80’s. I don’t hate this trilogy but the pandering to the OT and mystery boxes that lead to more OT pandering hurt this trilogy. I am glad we are moving on and I hope that whatever comes next is really handled and crafted with fleshed out ideas focused on creative artistic drive of originality.

 

As an ST...hater isn't the right word. Disliker? I thought I'd put my thoughts down. I saw the film Thursday night and spent some time organizing my thoughts. I'll start with characters:

The Magnificent Seven:

Leia: It was wonderful to see her again. They did the best they could with what they had to work with. While sad and disappointing to never see what was meant to be, I feel that she was appropriately honored.

Luke: I didn't like that he only appeared as a force ghost, although no one ever thought he would never appear as one. I liked his Obi-Wan moment, and lifting the x-wing from the water was, admittedly fan-servicy, wonderful to me.

Lando: Billy Dee looked like he was having the best time ever. I appreciated seeing him again, and it made me happy. I didn't get any impression whatsoever that he was related to anyone, more that it was all "Hey, I'm Lando, and I'm bored and rich as hell. Let's go find your family, kid."

C3P0: I think this was 3P0's best film. He had great lines, and I never thought I'd cry for a droid.

Chewbacca: Chewie gave me feels. First when we thought we'd lost him, then again when he broke down when Leia passed. Him getting a medal, while again fan-servicey, made me smile.

R2D2: after his suspicious absence from most previews, I thought he'd have a more important part, especially when we were told never to underestimate a droid. Kind of neutral on him this time.

Han: Han Solo, arriving at the dramatically appropriate moment, to say what needed said and turn the tide? Memory or not, hallucination or not, Force ghost or not, I'll effing take it.


The New Kids:

Finn: I felt he had the most growth. We went from a panicky ex-stormtrooper who only wanted to run, to a calmer ex-stormtrooper who only wanted to find Rey, to a Rebel Soldier who found his calling and people who felt like he did. He was no longer alone, whether it be from the people he found on Endor to becoming (Assumedly) Force Sensitive. Nits: we never got to hear what he was going to tell Rey.

Poe: Poe got a backstory, and it wasn't mysterious, and it fit him. I like him more now. I might have liked him more earlier had we seen any of this before. I liked the Babies Ever After with Zorri Bliss trope being averted when she shot him down.

Rey: If the Jedi of the past accept her as a Jedi, so must I. I liked her arc, but I do feel it was a mistake to make her related to anyone, given their adamant statements about "you don't have to be related to someone to have power." PS: I want the Jedi of Before and their "get up you son of a bitch, coz Mickey Loves You" moment as an MP3, and I want it as my alarm. Like, Now.

Kylo Ren/Ben Solo. I once felt that since he killed Han Solo, he had to pay. I disliked him, and won't echo the feelings that others do about his motivation and background. I giggled at the fact that he was generally a punk who never won a real fight. But...alright, look. As a martial artist, I tend to read body language, and Adam Driver effing crushed it. Ben Solo moved differently than Kylo Ren, and was a completely different character. I may not like it, but I believed it, and it was conflicted moment for me.

Story:

There was a lot of damage control. I enjoyed seeing the Emperor, but I wasn't happy to, if that makes sense. I get that they were trying to clean up a mess, but it did feel "out of nowhere" to me. I feel like the movie was a series of emotional scenes that gave me whiplash: Oh no, Chewie! Oh, thank god. Oh no, 3P0! Oh, thank god. Oh no, Leia. Oh, right. Damn. Oh no, Ben! Oh, thank god. OH NO BEN! Though these individual scenes were good and hit their emotional mark, they didn't really flow as a story for me as well as they might have. It was once a moment of monumental becoming, surrendering to the Force to become a ghost. Now...you can die from using the Force too hard? Did not like. Also...look, Avenger's Endgame RUINED big finishes to movies for the next five years, easy. Anyone who didn't think the words "Iron Man" after Rey said "And I am..." is fooling themselves. If they were gonna pull that trigger, they needed to either hold the film and polish it up, or put it out before Endgame, because that landing didn't stick the way they wanted it to, even if it was Marvel's fault.

I began this trilogy hating The Force Awakens. Now, except for a certain scene on a bridge, it's "okay." I'll watch it as part of a marathon, but not as a standalone, and it doesn't have much rewatchability to me. I liked The Last Jedi a lot, except for a certain scene of a guy sitting on a rock, which put me at odds with a large part of the GFFA. As for the Rise of Skywalker, here is the TLDR version: I liked it a lot more than I thought I would, and a lot more than I intended to, and look forward to seeing it again.

I am generally left wondering why the sequel trilogy as a whole was made though. Too bad the answer is money.