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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT The Rule of Two is a Stupid Idea.

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Purple Peace, Oct 14, 2023.

  1. Purple Peace

    Purple Peace Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2017
    The Sith could grow their numbers significantly and root out corruption and paranoia, and all around be way more powerful and efficient if they would just get rid of the rule of two.

    First of all, the Sith aren't inherently corrupt, nor should they be, at least in organization. The Rule of Two creates an atmosphere of paranoia, scheming, suspiciousness; the master is always paranoid of his apprentice and the apprentice is always anxious of being replaced, which usually also means death. (Ex., Maul, Dooku, and Anakin) Maul is replaced by Dooku, then Dooku by Anakin. Then it was Sidious's plan to take Luke as his apprentice and kill Vader. As was it Vader's plan to take Luke as an apprentice and kill Sidious.

    However, other Sith existed, and there were loopholes. The inquisitors are Sith, but not apprentices. But they answer to either Vader or Sidious.

    Why not just have all Sith band together to form another Sith Empire? Why instead backstab and scheme and ultimately rely mostly on non-force sensitives to build your empire as Sidious did? Surely, it's better to have all Sith work together and be friendly with each other? The Sith code doesn't say that Sith have to be rivals with one another.

    Also, why didn't Sidious recruit Sith as extensively as the Jedi did? I mean the kids are kidnapped and indoctrinated by the Jedi as is, so swaying young Jedi or at least doing the same thing doesn't seem hard. You might bring up secrecy, but the Jedi were oblivious to Sidious and the true nature of the clone army, so it's not impossible.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2023
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  2. Jedi Bluth

    Jedi Bluth Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 4, 2021
  3. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    I don't agree. I think the sith are what they are by the nature of what they strive for, which is power through selfishness and ego. By the very nature of what they use to gain their self delusion of power, they're not capable of all working together in a mass amount of numbers, because they would always feel threatened and/or want more/try to take more/have other goals. Individuals within the sith may seek other means to do something, but not all of them will agree with that, so even then it's a clash of perceptions of selfish egotistical people with powers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2023
  4. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Palpatine barely allows this info to the people he does use for his own ends in a more personal way. He's not going to get more people in on his secret, especially considering he's a very public figure at some point.
     
  5. Purple Peace

    Purple Peace Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2017
    But in the old republic era and before, didn't the sith do just that? They had an empire and the rule of two didn't exist yet.

    Also, I'd like to add that the Doctrine of Dyad is better in almost every way compared to the Rule of Two. Even Sidious thought so. (Even though he didn't seem to actually utilize it)
     
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  6. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 9, 2015
    I think that's dumb ST stuff.
     
  7. Purple Peace

    Purple Peace Jedi Knight

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    Dec 29, 2017
    Almost 100% sure it was around before the Sequel Trilogy. Even if it isn't I don't think it's dumb, it's a cool idea.
     
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  8. Tia

    Tia Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2022
    Rule of 2 is stupid for the simple idea both Sith could get blown up at any given time, or eat a dodgy steak at dinner
    or you know, get blasted to smithereens on a ship.

    When Sidious built the death star I bet he said "alright Vader at no point can we be on the same planet at any given time...ever"
     
  9. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 9, 2015
    That's only an issue with the idea that sith would think about something personally beyond themselves, which I think they're not exactly known for.
     
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  10. darthvader88

    darthvader88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2005
    I believe the idea, in Legends, was that Darth Bane saw that there being multiple Sith weakened themselves, and that if there were only 2, there would be a far greater chance of them accomplishing their goals in the long run...

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
     
  11. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    The Sith are established to be inherently corrupt in The Clone Wars. That atmosphere of paranoia is there regardless of how many Sith there are. The RoT just ensures that if a schemer is successful, they are not weaker than their master - the master may die, but the order is now stronger in the long run.
    The Inquisitors are definitely not Sith. There is more to being a Sith (or a Jedi) than running around with a lightsaber.
    Darth Bane's apparition tells us in The Clone Wars: the Sith killed each other because they were all greedy in their pursuit of power. They tried to work together, but couldn't. Yes, the Code doesn't forbid it, but it just doesn't work.
    The more Sith there are, the greater the risk of discovery. Heck, look at Tyranus - he is very competent, but still sloppy, and the Jedi almost discover the Sith plot through their Sifo-Dyas investigation. Someone like Asajj Ventress would have been even sloppier and less capable of cleaning up any similar messes she may have made.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2023
  12. Tia

    Tia Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2022
    they would want to keep their order alive,

    otherwise this Darth Bane chap wouldn't have bothered with this rule of two stuff, so I'm afraid I don't understand your position on this,


    the less of something there is the greater the risk of extinction, this is basic math and science
     
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  13. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    Ya well, they tried the other way and it didn't work.
     
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  14. Tia

    Tia Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 11, 2022
    but it's a bit extreme to go to the exact opposite too :p

    As I have said, what if both Sith lords died in the exact same location at the same time? no more Sith.

    Why have Vader and Palps on the death star together when rebels (who had succeeded before) were actively trying to blow it up?
    and had Luke failed in redeeming Vader, they would have been blown up anyway, so no more Sith regardless
     
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  15. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 9, 2017
    Having less Sith does run a greater risk of extinction. But they are supremely confident.

    The Sith Order is intended to put the fewest possible elite beings on top. They aren’t interested in growing ranks for its own sake
     
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  16. Tia

    Tia Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 11, 2022
    it would have been hilarious if Palps had been killed minutes after Dooku while trying to escape on the invisible hand,
    I mean there wouldn't be a movie....but still

    one for the How It Should Have Ended :p
     
  17. Jedi Bluth

    Jedi Bluth Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2021
    Hmmm....

    You are starting to sound like a Jedi...

    Hate for you master to hear about this...
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    "Your overconfidence is your weakness."
     
  19. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 9, 2015
    I think they put themselves over that.
     
  20. Tia

    Tia Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 11, 2022
    but the TRUE SITH EMPIRE aren't dumb enough to adhere to the rule of two, ain't that right

    @Sinrebirth @Lady_Belligerent @HanSolo29 ? :p


    yup, and it led to their downfall.

    It's almost as if Lucas is saying "the rule of two is technically a dumb idea, but the Sith can't see past their arrogance to see it"

    yet we have people defending it

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    I don't think that's what he was saying. It would have worked if Sidious wasn't a fool.
     
  22. Tia

    Tia Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 11, 2022
    was still too risky,
    all it took was a well thrown detanator when the two sith lords were together and bye bye Sith.

    But I'm repeating myself here and you don't see that as a possibility for some reason. I would be stressed beyond belief every time I was in the same room as my apprentice, but that's probably because I have OCD. But eh, I see it as frickin lucky they survived as long as they did, or more likely "because plot said so" you don't so... nice chatting :p
     
  23. Lady_Belligerent

    Lady_Belligerent Queen of the RPF, SWC, C&P, and Pancakes & Waffles star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2008
    Correct, the rule of two doesn’t work.
     
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  24. Jedi Bluth

    Jedi Bluth Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2021
    I don't adhere to the rule of two myself. I was referring to, you wanting Palps dead.

    I mean any Sith is greater than any jedi.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2023
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  25. Tia

    Tia Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 11, 2022
    haha, nah I didn't say I wanted Palps dead, was just saying it would have been funny if Palps died not long after the other sith dude did :p
    I mean, Palps at least could have waited until he was sure Anakin was turned to the dark side before offing his current apprentice :p

    besides I wouldn't be much of a Sith if I wasn't calling other Sith dumb would I? ;)
     
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