Discussion The Scribble Pad (Fanfic Writing Discussions)

You know what the hardest part of writing is for me? Writing. My Mushroom World fanfic is plotted clear through the fourth story, but I'm barely into the second. I know where I want the story to go, it's just getting there, and writing everything that happens between the major events.

 

Personally, super looking forward to this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Master_&_Apprentice

 

I'm definitely living in their heads while I'm writing, which can make things both fun and difficult. Right now, one of my characters is crushing on someone totally unsuitable, and the next chapter I have to write is from her POV squee-ing that he finally asked her out. Meanwhile, I just want to smack her for crushing on this jerk and for hurting her best friend, who's secretly in love with her, which is pretty ridiculous since I'm the one who decided she should act this way in the first place But no, I'm totally irked at her and not wanting to take up headspace with her just listen to her go on about how great this gigantic jerkface is. Makes complete sense.

Yep. This. So many ideas. So many stories. So hard to sit down and get them all written!

 

AAAAAAAAH! Qui-Gon not as a Blue Ghostie!!! The Temple in all her glory!!! Thank you for the info.
EAD: changed smilie to Qui-Gon after using Kanan, herpderp. I need new glasses.

 

So, I was going to post this over in the NANO thread, but I figured it could be a broader discussion (and mostly just me getting my thoughts in order... because that's part of the problem).

I have concentration issues (nothing new there, my brain has always just has liked to go off in 4 different directions) and it has only gotten worse since I'm studying online (but that is just a whole different personal issue). Now a days, I just can't write a story over like 2000 words. I mean, there's nothing wrong with short stories and going with the flow wherever the muse takes you; which is what I've been doing for the past year and having a lot of fun, but I do want to get back into writing a bit longer pieces. So, thankfully, the idea I've gotten for the newest MMM challenge has really developed into into something I could expand to about 8000-12000 words (knock on wood) and something I'm really excited to take on. It's holiday and family mush, but also about adopting to life with a disability, and healing, and confusion around religion and sexuality. And while it is based on The West Wing, I think it will be one of those fics that could really be read as "original" fiction (AKA I could totally "50 Shades" it) so I think it will be one of those that non-fans (and even those totally unfamiliar with my OC) will be able to enjoy.

But, I guess my problem is, I don't know if it will be boring? I know, I know, "fanfic is a hobby and you should write for fun and for yourself" (that's a quote from someone really cool and I should really listen to her). But I can't tell if I think it's boring because a ~10,000 word fic covering topics I've written plenty of times before is boring, or if it's boring because I'm used to writing 2000 words and then being onto the next thing.

Edit: so, I guess my question/topic is, how do you write long stories? How do you take an idea and turn it into a plot and an arc that will sustain your and your reader's attention for many chapters?

 

whoops. double post.

 

Good for you to begin a longer story and stretch those muscles! As for the general length of 2000 words, might it be that you've honed your skills through much practice and pruned deadwood out of a fic to arrive at a good length for your usual story's maximum effect?

It seems to me that the first big step for a longer story is done: you've decided on a length. That gives control over the next step, the outline, which needs to have the usual beginning, middle and end plotted out in broad strokes. The fun lies in surprising yourself with just how you get from I.A.1.a.(1.)(a.) to I.B.1.a.(1.)(a.) and so forth.

The "many chapters" idea works well for a 10k+ fic. Don't want to give readers or yourself intellectual indigestion!

Happy writing,

pronker

EAD:: All I can think of to answer 'what if I bore myself/readers' is to step out in faith.

 

Thanks. And yeah, I think I've just been so "used to" writing short, 1 post stories over the past like 18 months that my brain has just been "trained" to come up with short, focused stories. I have written longer 50,000 words stories in the past, and while I don't want to go back to doing stories quite that long, I do miss the focus (I miss my focused brain).

And thanks. I usually run the gambit on how much I outline a story (I've done everything from super detailed plans to complete pantsing), but I think, in order to get back in to multi-chapter fics (because, yeah, no way would write - or post - something over 3000 words without some sort of mental breaks) outlining is going to be key.

 

I had a difficult time with this, many years ago.

My advice to you: keep writing and keep reading. Those are the two things that keep me improving. Longer/shorter really shouldn't matter. And mastering the nonchalance of caring not a whit whether your fic is long or short, THAT, grasshopper, is when you can start writing fics as long as you choose.

My writing process goes like this:
1 The idea pops into my head and I go "Ooo, me likey."
2 I outline the idea (often in my head, but sometimes on a device) in a single paragraph.
3 Then, I brainstorm. Sometimes this takes weeks or months. Sometimes, the idea fizzles out and I never see it again.
4 If it survives part 3, then I begin outlining the character who I will write through (pov characters)
5 I write large paragraph 'summaries' for each section (usually a chapter) each character will be in. I don't necessarily get detailed, but I try to put in as much information (as much 'stuff' for the character to do and talk about) as seems appropriate. (This requires practice to get good at and takes time).
Usually, a character will have 10-20 sections and I'll have anywhere from 3-6 characters in each story. The more you do in part 3, the Brainstorm section, the more characters and more 'stuff' they will be responsible for in telling the story, and the longer the story will become.

I've written well over 100,000 word stories, and series' of stories with the same characters that stretch toward 4-500,000 words. Not like a Stephen King story, but not short either.

 

The longest I've written was about 13,000 words, and that was agonising over about 3 months (or more?).

I expect alot of it would be spending a thousand words setting a scene that I'd normally get by in a paragraph or two, and letting conversations take a more natural, meandering path.

In general being in less of a rush getting to the destination.

 

Exactly. The more you can make it the journey that's the important part, the longer it will be.

Now, there's something to be said for short, too. It won't make a novel, but for fanfic, cutting out a lot of the BS can make a story instantly tense and very interesting in a short amount of words.

 

This is something I have learned.
In fanfics, you are just one guy writing in a crowd. People understandibly only have a certain amount of attention to give you, so keep it short and entertaining. Give them one little cool thing. And it also increases the chances of you finishing the damn thing.

 

Lol. I can't count how many fics and novels I've NOT finished. At least as many as I have, to be sure. That evil Darth Plot Bunny can be a terrible master sometimes. Just when you think you have her, she darts away and says

 

That's fantastic, inspiring, and veeeeeery interesting.

 

All right, Arte, you silly German fellow, you.

 

Looking at p.1 of this thread, a topic 'unreliable narrator' is mentioned and I wonder if its opposite, reliable narrator, suits as a discussion topic. For instance, upon reading huge amounts of Edna Ferber some years back, a pattern appeared: she wrote characters as at from a distance of time and not as unfolding in a story. For instance, a novel such as her Show Boat might include a passage "As the long-estranged couple embraced after decades apart, Gaylord Ravenal envisioned Magnolia as he first saw her, bustled and crinolined with cascading lovelocks. When he breathed his last in the great Influenza Epidemic of 1933, he carried this sight with him to the tomb." NEXT PARA: "Gaylord drew apart from Magnolia's embrace and remarked on the weather."

Well, shoot. Now I know how and when Gaylord died, so why ought I to invest more time in this story? It made me realize how spoiler-phobic a reader can be, and how much reading and writing fanfic is like satisfying curiosity or mystery-solving and not genuinely learning about Gaylord's overblown romantic personality. Is there validity in this notion?

 

Interesting. Personally, for me, it depends on the type of story and the type of reveal. I'm not really a 'spoiler phobic' person so I don't mind knowing character's ultimate fates, within reason - I mean, if say a movie death is more emotionally impactful coming suddenly out of no where, I don't want to see it in the trailer. I wouldn't want the opening crawl of ESB to reveal the "I am your father" moment. I personally think the journey is sometimes more important than the ending (but I am a sucker for a good ending). For example, my last long SW fan fic was the "canon" (at the time I was writing it) love story of Bail and Breha Organa - from the outset the reader knew Breha was going to marry him and become queen (I even had a prologue saying so), but that wasn't the point of the story. My current "project" is basically a series of stories surrounding both ECs and OCs, but mainly OCs, told out of order. My audience knows in 2037 L/M and E/R marry; in 2038 Josh dies, in 2054 L and E are elected president and VP, but I'm still writing stories about Christmas in 2033 because it's the development that is fun (also because my muse is just obsessed).

And knowing a character's fate can set the tone and be "fun" to play around with, like using foreshadowing that you know the reader will understand.

 

Each person, I think, finds validity in different things. I wouldn't be put off by finding out how a character died too early, because it's more about the journey, for me. To me, we all die, so knowing the character died at some point is a given, but how he lived is more important.

That being said, I can't imagine the need to put something like the character's death into it when the focus of the story isn't that. Unless it's to convey a sense of urgency in his feelings toward the woman, but then he'd have to have some inkling of when he was going to die, which doesn't seem to fit the passage you shared.

Anyway, those are my two cents; spend them how you wish.

 

It sure can. That's true, foreshadowing can involve the reader more than a completely unknown 'final destination' ... as an author, inserting the technique strains the brain a little.

I am fond of the journey, too, yet admit to a brief jolt of 'awwwwwwww, nuts' when discovering a character dies in the 'universe' of the piece of fiction. Too much identifying/empathizing with fictional characters? Maayyybeeee ...

 

Yeah, I don't really have a problem with knowing what's going to happen so long as the author intended you to know.
I think of the TV show This is Us. We see all sorts of things happen before they happen in the present narrative (from a certain time period) and we learned a huge thing within the first few episodes, but it's still a really great show that they manage to still work in a lot of surprises. It really is about the journey and discovering other little things a long the way.

I could see a narrative telling you someone died right off the bat because they don't want that to be the ending which would probably be sad. Maybe they want a happier ending and by telling you someone is going to die, it gives you the chance to digest it and once the end comes, you are open to the happier part rather than taken by the sadness.

 

It's a re-weighting of what is important in the story.

Instead of you wondering how the story will end, the author is saying "here's the destination, and so now watch how the journey gets us there."

It sets the attitude of the reader.

 

It sounds like a an interesting idea for a challenge. Either a group progression (Round Robin) or and individual challenge. Provide the the writer a desitination and have them get there in 5000 words or less.

 

Kinda like an "opening sentence challenge", but instead a "closing sentence challenge". Sounds like fun!

 

This sounds quite like LOST, and I enjoyed that show a lot, yeah ...

Oh that's very good thinking, must ponder ...

Okay, I see this point. In a sense, all characters are 'dead' and I shall endeavor to enjoy the quality of writing to a higher degree than I decry the final ... sad ... irrevocable ... except if you turn into a Blue Ghostie end ...

 

I was wondering if anyone here has "fixed the truncation" on one of their affected stories the hard way--by rewriting the lost parts. While it's often said that the truncated posts are gone (daddy gone) that isn't really strictly true--there are still pieces left of them, and that gives you a lot more to work with than just vague memories of prose long gone. So far, I have successfully done this with three 2000ish word, or somewhat less, one post stories. I have tricks for doing this sort of thing that have stood me well--basically, I retype the existing 10,000 character portion, which helps jog my memory for the part I must now rewrite. It might not be the same as it was before, but considering that I wrote these particular stories over ten years ago, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

But now I'm working on fixing a truncated story with multiple posts, and that has been somewhat trickier. I have the beginning part of each post, followed then by empty gaps, so I have to rewrite each to an end that will lead into the existing opening of the next section. And the thing is--and given that I wrote this story in 2005, this isn't too surprising--I don't remember at all, even after going back through the prose that led up to it, what happened in much of the lost parts. And some of the last posts were pretty long too.

But then: I'm also now at a part where I'm going to begin heavily revising/changing the story at a structural level, so perhaps this isn't going to matter too much.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm the only person who has gone to this much effort to reclaim one of their old stories. And it probably is for the best to move forward. So I don't know if this post serves as advice, or a warning, or both. You decide.