ST The ST: What Would You Change/Revise?

Why does he need to disapprove it, moral reasons?

You can disapprove of it

 

Oh he does not need to disapprove it.
How could he after all, when he clearly approves it?

Just don't call people's criticism of him "foul motives".

 

I don’t think Reylo is sexist, I was saying critics were attributing foul motives to Rian, not that the critics had foul motives

 

Then what is it?

Healthy? Romantic? Equal?

Rian has literally said:
OK, I need to get these two talking. But if I put them face to face they’re going to either fight, or one of them has to be tied up.' So I knew I wanted them to talk, and to talk enough to where we could go from 'I hate you,' to her being forced to actually engage with him.
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Why is it that Rey needs to be tied up?
Why is it that the woman has to change her feelings for a man, against her will?
Why is it that the gods demand her to engage with Kylo?
Why doesn't Rey have a choice in the matter?
Why does Kylo take his shirt off?
Why is that as soon as he does, Rey is written to magically forget everything else, as if Kylo's body is all that matters?
Why is it that it's Rey has to change her feelings at all? That has to go from "I hate you" (which is perfectly fair, since Kylo abused her, tortured her, tied her up, paralyzed and kidnapped her, lied to her, tried to murder her ... just yesterday) to her being forced (against her will, by the Force) to engage with him, and feel romantic feelings for him?c

Rian wrote this on purpose. Why?

We know that in other interviews he has said that he supports Reylo, and intended this to be a romance. He's also told stories of how he had to correct John Williams that the audience needed to believe Rey's belief in this romance.

How is this not sexist?
How is this a romance for Rey? (And not just further abuse)
If Rey has to be tied up, and forced to feel these things, how is this an equal relationship?
How is Ben's manipulation (which Rian has described as honesty) of Rey not sexist?

It's only a romance for Kylo since Kylo still has free will. Kylo wants to engage with Rey. He makes her uncomfortable but does not care. Rian only cares about Kylo's feelings. Rey is being forced to feel these things against her will, despite being uncomfortable.

Why doesn't Rian write that Kylo has to change his feelings as well?
Why doesn't he write that Kylo try to engage with Rey?
Why doesn't he write Kylo as treating Rey nicely?
Why doesn't he write Kylo apologizing to Rey for his behavior, in order to get her to like him? Or to make amends?

In his "one of them has to be tied up" why does Rian immediately assume it's Rey - the woman - who needs to be tied up against her will, because if he doesn't she will just fight him? Why is that his solution?

Where in any of the story does Rian pull back and say 'this is sooooo wrong"? "this isn't healthy", "you're not supposed to root for this"."this isn't a romance this is abusive" "rey is in deep danger". "Rey needs to escape this'

No where. Because Rian doesn't see it that way. Rian only cares for Kylo's health and well-being. Kylo needs to be saved. That's all that matters.

And that, is sexist.

If you disagree, then you have a major task here. You're gonna have to explain how this isn't sexist. How all of this is healthy. How Reylo is based on an equal partnership/relationship between two equal people. Not just in universe, but for the audience.

 

Spoiler

 

I would name the bad guy “Starkiller”, not the base. He would be the character that became Kylo Ren, the fallen Jedi son of Leia and Han. I also like the dark siders controlling the criminal underworld and a femme fatale Sith from Lucas drafts, but I might change the design.

 

TFA is…OK?
TLJ is…I’d rather not say.
And TROS is…dross.

 

Is there a nothing option? I genuinely like these movies. Maybe they made some decisions most people didn't like, but I do. That said, if I HAD to make a change, I would change the IX title to Duel of the Fates, 'cause it sounds cool.

 

The problem with Duel of the Fates as a title (although it sounds cool) is that we know it refers specifically to Anakin... and Anakin is as removed from the ST as Gandalf...

 

Well it refers to Anakin, but its not Anakin's theme, its basically an underlining message. Which could mean anything

 

I would have made Rey the biological daughter of Luke Skywalker i dont know what JJ plan was in making her a Palpatine if he could make her a Palpatine why not a real Skywalker? the franchise is the Skywalker story is not about Palpatine a Skywalker should have been the protagonist i dont care if Luke failed to rebuild the Jedi Order if Rey was the one in doing that fine i wouldnt have had a problem but she should have been Luke daughter

 

Duel of the Fates IS a cue that is specifically designed to reference Anakin's fate. I don't like the casual misuse of themes and narrative anyways... and I'm certainly glad they didn't have it as a film title, unless explicitly referencing Anakin Skywalker of course... and if that were the case, then yes.

 

Considering the discourse I saw about how Han/Leia was bad and wrong but Rey/Kylo wasn't, yeah, I think you'll be waiting awhile. I well remember the week of "Reylo is hot" posts across the entertainment online media. Including freakin' Jezebel saying it was great. At least there were later posts with people upset that they'd done so.

 

I don’t have to explain how it’s healthy. I think it’s a toxic relationship, I just don’t think anything is sexist about having a toxic relationship in a movie

 

I think that Kathleen Kennedy would have been better off if she had told both Rian and J.J. that she planned to bring Palpatine back. That way, they could have made this trilogy make more sense. But if I had my way, I would have had Karen Traviss, James Luceno, and Matt Stover basically write a three-part screenplay and have someone interpret it as a trilogy. I think something like that would have been a better method.

Now, just to be clear, Sequel-bashing is not the same as Prequel-bashing. The reason people got all upset about the prequels in the 2000s was due to the fact that George Lucas did not think through some things in TPM and especially AOTC. He did learn from his mistake and he put considerable thought and direction into ROTS, and that was good for Hayden, Ian, and Ewan.

The issue here is that TFA was quite good, and the inconsistencies of TLJ and TROS make TFA less good. It's not a trilogy. It's a mess.

So, if I had to rate the ST, I'd give TFA an 86, TLJ a 27.5, and TROS a 46. You see, that's not passing. In contrast, I'd give TPM an 83, AOTC a 75.5, and I'd give ROTS a 92.8. So, that's passing.

I mainly give TLJ a 27.5 due to the fact that the film looks good, and I wondered what I did like about it. I guess the visuals and the way Andy Serkis performs Snoke. Otherwise, Daisy Ridley's talent makes Rey believable, but she regresses in terms of the strength she had in TFA. She is redacted into tragic figure. Honestly, as much as I praise R1 and I'm fond of Solo, it's due to the mess of the Sequel Trilogy. R1 is probably behind Frozen II, Dark Phoenix, and Django Unchained as far as my favorite movies of the 2010s are concerned. TLJ is a film I detest as much as X-Men: The Last Stand and 1997's Batman and Robin. I think there are a few things I can actually be fond of in TROS, so that's why it doesn't go below 40. I would have rated TFA higher, like, 89 or 90, if the rest of the trilogy didn't weigh it down.

My avatar is about Ahsoka Tano gaining muscles caring Star Wars. And Ahsoka is not the most complex or even most mesmerizing character in all of time and space. The reason people love her is because she had to grow up fast, she cared about Anakin, and despite being an alien, she behaves in a very human and believable way. She's pretty much a Grey Jedi Knight, even though she doesn't consider herself a Jedi. It's like she took the good stuff from Anakin and Obi-Wan and managed to make it work for herself.

The irony is that Rey was supposed to go in a similar direction. After reading Duel of the Fates, I would have liked to have seen her found a Jedi Order that was very Grey. Whether it was a C+ thing, a B or A, or whatever, it would have been great to see Daisy Ridley pull that off. Plus, it would have been good to see Finn and Poe being the more secular heroes....with Finn rallying former stormtroopers and Poe gradually succeeding Leia. By that I mean the real Leia: the guerrilla fighter who was quick on her feet. Not this dumbed down version of her we got in the ST. I think Carrie Fisher only put up with it because she had a good sense of humor. Carrie could handle those things. Mark Hamill was hurt by Luke's characterization, and I think Harrison Ford only relished playing Han because he finally had some more nuance to him and he was going to be a martyr. The irony is that even though Han is out of character in TFA, it's one of Ford's best performances.

 

I'd suggest that some may consider it sexist to, for no reason that I can see, out of nowhere, go out of the way of the story and character structure, to burn time in developing a toxic romance, with the first female Star Wars movie main character.

 

There isn’t “only one correct way Rey should react to any scenario” that is “like a human being”, even if you don’t like Rey’s actions in The Last Jedi as released.

 

Humans are flawed. We are not ideal.

The desire for perfectionism is only what we wish we could achieve. While we constantly and consistantly mess up.

 

And that doesn't justify a character being written as stupid for, what some may see as, for the sake of it and/or inconsistent with the characters prior developed structure and character goals.

 

You are wrong. Since there are TLJ fans who can “access Rey’s POV”