JCC Arena The Theist/Atheist Thunderdome™

Thanks for reminding me. It should be called the Blunderdome, that's what it was coming here.

 

But now you get to to crawling back to your pastor and tell him “I tried to convert those dirty heathens, but they closed their hearts and rejected what I said. Just like the Bible predicted they would. God is good!”

 

1. You could convince if you could provide robust evidence. You can't, even though you've been given the opportunity to do so.
2. As already covered, in many areas including the United States, there are repeated efforts by Christians to shape legislation based on their religion. When Christians stop doing that entirely, then there would be much less concern with the belief structure. But so long as they are using it as a foundation for legislative decisions it is then going to be very relevant as to if it can be substantiated or not.

So your stance is that people who draw conclusions based on available evidence are not credible sources. Which reflects the more fundamental problem with your approach but is also consistent with your general objection to evidence that contradicts what you'd rather believe.

 

It’s like the spirit of Anakin Solo Revanchist has possessed a new body, eager to haunt the JCC once again.

 

If only it was something as interesting as reincarnation

 

This is the winning attitude. Until this post, timmo won at every turn without a lot of effort. Now you suddenly posted something he's unable to.

This is a glowing example for everyone who comes in here and wants to post something controversial.

Some of us knew this even before this thread was even created but you can't have it all.

 

On a totally different note, today I found multiple antisemitic flyers scattered around the neighborhood I was working in. These contained messages that said, paraphrasing “We failed to kick them out before, now we have to try harder. Antisemitism will end if the Jews would just leave!”

This is at least the fourth time similar flyers have been distributed in that neighborhood in the last couple years. I understand it’s been happening elsewhere in the country too. These flyers are put in Zip-loc bags with tiny rocks or wood pellets so that they can be flung from a moving vehicle. The cowards making these things can’t even bother to confront people face-to-face.

 

I saw the new anti-antisemitism psa on tv yesterday.

 

My beliefs are a bit complex, however I still want to try to expose them.

I believe in the existence of God. My God is all-powerful, transcendent, eternal, omniscient, ubiquitous, and he created this and other Universes. Moreover, I believe in the existence of the soul and its immortality, as well as in the existence of Heaven, Hell, Angels and Demons. However, I don't consider myself a Christian, because I believe in these concepts as standalone concepts, therefore I don't link them to the Bible or to Jesus.

Hell exists, but it's not God who sends you to Hell, it's you who sends you there with your own hands. My God is a God of love, he loves all his creatures indiscriminately and could never think of sending someone to Hell with his own hands. This is why he gave us free will and gave us the task of self-evaluating ourselves. Hee gave our souls the task of judging themselves and to understand for themselves what their place is. I believe that when a person dies, his soul knows what its place is. Depending on how that person feels at the moment of death, his soul will either go to Heaven or Hell. It all depends on our level of self-realization.

We all know deep down what’s right and what's wrong. Therefore, it’s up to us where we end up. If when you die you feel at peace with yourself, you have no regrets and you know that you have been a good person, then your soul will automatically end up in Heaven, because it's you who brings you there. On the contrary, if when you die you have huge regrets and you know that you have not been a good person, then your soul already knows that its place is Hell, where you will torture yourself with your guilt until you can get rid of it. Hell is not meant to be an eternal punishment, of course. Your soul can come out of Hell and go to Heaven, but only when it feels at peace with itself and thinks it deserves to go out of Hell. Therefore, the permanence of souls in Hell depends on every single soul and its guilt.

My view of Heaven and Hell has nothing to do with traditional Christianity, especially medieval Christianity. In my vision, Heaven is simply another dimension, a dimension superimposed to our own Universe, in which there's no suffering and pain, and in which everything is beautiful. On the contrary, Hell is another dimension, but in which there's only suffering and pain, and in which there's nothing pleasant. It's not a lake of fire as described in the Bible, but it's another dimension superimposed to our own universe. It's something similar to what's described in some theories of modern physics, according to which there are other dimensions superimposed to our own, that resemble our reality but are at the same time different.

I don’t believe in the concept of "worshipping God". From my point of view, God is an infinitely loving being who doesn't need worshipping, but who does everything in a disinterested way. Contrary to the God of the Old Testament, who asked for worshipping in exchange for favors, my God does everything in a disinterested way and doesn't need to be prayed or worshipped. For this reason I don't worship him, nor I pray to him, but I simply surrender totally to his wisdom, his omnipotence and the benevolence of his plan.

As for the Angels, they're spiritual creatures who deal with minor tasks. Their major function is to stand beside mortal beings, to guide them and helping them, but without them directly realizing it. Angels are created directly by God and have free will like mortal beings, so they can question God’s orders. In fact, In my vision Demons are precisely that: they are Dark Angels who abandoned the path of Light, questioned God and his plans and rebelled against God. However, there isn't a main Dark Angel who leads the Demons in my vision, so there's no Satan. There are only individual Dark/Fallen Angels (Demons, indeed) who wander endlessly and try to create chaos in God’s creation.

The number of Universes created by God is infinite in space and time, and our Universe is only one of the infinite created Universes. So, the number of Angels created is infinite in space and time, too, therefore there's also an infinite number of Demons, because there's always an infinite number of Angels who continually rebel against God and turn to the side of Darkness. Furthermore, there are no angelic and demonic hierarchies like in traditional Christianity, all Angels and Demons are equal and have the same powers. The only difference between them is how they use these powers and who they obey, whether to God and the Light, or to themselves.

I also believe in the existence of alien life forms and technologically advanced extraterrestrial civilizations, living in our Universe and in the other Universes created by God. So we are not the only intelligent species with a soul, we're not the only ones who are subject to the law of self-realization, etc.

As a footnote, I’m obviously not a hard creationist and I believe in the evolution of species.

And that's... Pretty much what I believe in.

 

I always had a problem with the whole worshipping thing too.

 

I think our ideas of heaven or hell are entirely too ... human-based. Get rewarded if you're good. Get punishment if you're bad. Blah. Sounds like a tale you'd tell children at bedtime. If I were to believe in anything, it would simply be that our energy, our presence, scatters amongst the stars, the heavens, and that's it. We get absorbed into the universe and nothing more.

When I was a Christian I didn't believe in a hell. If life after death is only possible through a belief and adherence Jesus, then Heaven was the only possibility for continued 'life' after death. After all, Hell is a form of life after death, so I don't think that's a real after life place, or even a possibility. I believed that you simply did not exist anymore. Poof. Gone. Forever and ever. No coming back. There's no punishment. No torture. No lake of fire and burning flesh and torment.

As an agnostic atheist I have a problem with an eternal punishment system for a finite number of living years of "badness'. I also have a problem with eternal reward system for an finite number of years of goodness.

That all said, I've been having some very interesting conversations with my 4 year old. He told me that he doesn't want to be a giant like mom and dad, because once you become a giant you have to visit the stars and go to a new planet one day. There's really nice trees on this other planet. But after a while you have leave and come back. And he doesn't want that to happen because he likes his new body, and his name, and doesn't want a new one. He also mentions that he used to be a girl a long time ago. He also mentions that he used to save people but doesn't do that anymore. And he hates boats and the ocean even though he's never been on one.

 

So, quite the imagination!

 

At the very least. Yup.

 

My concept of Hell doesn't revolve entirely around Human morality. That is, I don't extrapolate Human morality and extend it to the whole Universe.
Let’s take an absurd example: if there's an alien species that needs cannibalism to survive, then obviously the act of cannibalism wouldn't be considered bad in the eyes of God, for the simple fact that they have evolved that way and can't do anything about it. So obviously they wouldn’t go to Hell for this.
Good and evil depend on how each species in the Universe is structured and what it needs to survive. Since we don’t need to kill other human beings to survive, we don’t need to enslave other human beings to survive, we don’t need to rape to survive, then all these things are considered bad in the eyes of God and in the eyes of our own soul. But in the case that there's a species that needs all these things to survive, obviously their rules would be different, and the reasons why their souls could end up in Hell are also different.
I hope you get what I mean...

In fact, my Hell isn't eternal.

 

I think a lot of people who profess to follow Christ give Christianity a bad rap. They try to prove their brand of religion right, which is not how to go about witnessing. There are plenty of books with the evidence that anyone can read. No unbeliever is going to want to read them because to him or her they are just claims that are not third party verified. So professors of Christ's religion go around trying to push their beliefs on atheists and agnostics and try to shove their religion down their throats, and I used to be the same way. So my policy is I'm here to talk to you a friendly chat, not to prove I'm right, nor to debate religion with you. But if you have a question you'd like to ask me, I will try to give my best answer. Please don't ask me to prove God to you, for I am of the belief that evidence only follows belief, and not the other way around, and again that is only my belief, and I'm not here to try to convince anyone of it.

So how was everyone's day? What good things happened to you today? I just got my theforce.net privileges back, my cat appears to be in good health, and I got a kiss on the head from my girlfriend. She's amazing. My apartment is clean, I reconciled with my boss, and my cat is not just healthy but happy. I have many friends on discord and in the community. I myself am in good health and pretty good shape.
Although I no longer work at McDonald's I like to stream, and I may be able to partnership one of my discord servers with my boss's server.
All-in-all, I have a good life right now and can't complain about anything.

 

Arnold the atheist

The action movie legend told “Twins” co-star Danny DeVito that heaven is a “fantasy” and that anyone who says otherwise “is a ******* liar.”

 

I love the Terminator Movies. I especially liked The Sarah Connor Chronicles, yet I don't think Arnie was in them.

On topic, interesting that Arnie was the governor of California, I think, and he was a Republican. I'm sorry to hear that he lost his faith. But then again maybe he was one of those 'fiscal conservatives' some of which aren't Believers in a god. Actually, I have no idea if he ever was a Believer. Not all Republicans are.

I'm watching a Worship service right now.


I'm at the library. I've been having a good day so far. It was really hot on the walk walking here. Good thing it's air conditioned here and I had plenty of water. My smartphone is off now because it only had a little charge left.

I liked Arnold in a lot of his movies. He's in good shape for his age. He sets a good example for physical fitness.

To us all.

I hope he still makes some more movies. He's a likeable fellow.

In my fantasies, I have dreamed about having a bodyguard like an Arnie-type T-800 Droid.
That would be awesome!

 

Every Austrian catholic I know under the age of 80 is also an atheist.

 

Religion in Austria

Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Religion_in_Austria

Among Christians, 80.9% were Catholics, 7.2% were Orthodox Christians (mostly belonging to the Eastern Orthodox Church), 5.6% were Protestants, while the ...
People also ask

What percent of Austria is atheist?
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Section I.

According to religious groups and December 2019 figures from the government's Austrian Integration Fund, Roman Catholics constitute 56 percent of the population, and Muslims – predominantly Sunni – 8 percent, while approximately 25 percent is unaffiliated with any religion. According to estimates from the fund and religious groups, Eastern Orthodox churches (Russian, Greek, Serbian, Romanian, Antiochian, and Bulgarian) constitute 5 percent of the population, and Protestants (Augsburg and Helvetic confessions) 3.2 percent. Groups that together constitute less than 5 percent of the population include Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jews, and other Christian and non-Christian religious groupMay 12, 2021

2020 Report on International Religious Freedom: Austria

State Department (.gov)
https://www.state.gov › reports › austria

So what you said is probably true, but Google doesn't know it.

More proof that Google can't tell you everything, and there are many things you could never get Google to tell you, because only men and women know them.

 

being catholic in Austria is almost as simple as paying the state church tax. It doesn't include a formal belief test so no one is checking to find out how serious Austrians really are about their catholicism. It's part of the national identity at least as far as right wing nationalists are concerned.

 

I’ve certainly never met an Austrian who was like “oh man, the church tax, love paying that” but I have met several who pay it to keep up appearances. Therefore, because this is the Thunderdome, I feel comfortable concluding that religion in Austria is a massive and increasingly sweaty social farce not unlike a British sitcom scenario. It’s pronounced Poh-pay.

 

Just a note that not believing in the afterlife, or a bodily resurrection as Arnold says, does not make you an atheist. That would for instance mean the Sadducees were atheists when they weren't.

 

The local priest in the town my wife grew up in was renowned far and wide for the number of mistresses he had accumulated across the province over many decades which would be more or less definitionally a sweaty social farce.

 

Arnold just straight up admitting that death is bull**** and it pisses him off might just be the most relatable any celeb has ever been to me.