Senate The US Politics discussion

I've never understood this idea that WWII vets would be utterly shocked at how the country is under Trump. Like guys.......America was even more like Nazi Germany when Hitler rose to power than Trump's America is. Or do we need a reminder that Hitler got a LOT of inspiration and legal justification for his actions based on America perfecting the art of genocide and generally being awful.

We are talking about a generation that went to fight Hitler, not cause he put Jews in cages and gas chambers, but cause Japan bombed us to secure our oil so we finally threw in against Germany. Even those that did hate Hitler, still had no qualms about throwing Japanese-Americans in cages. Had no qualms about having black men fight with them but not be allow to even vote or protect themselves from being lynched back home. Trump stinks, but let's not act like WWII was ideological on the American side of things, or really the Western Allies that hadn't been invaded or annexed early.

I went to find sources and found an article that perfect states my mentallity better than I could. I highly recommend it https://time.com/4703586/nazis-america-race-law/
key quotes

I don't exactly wanna dunk on people who shot Nazis, that is a good thing to do. But the "greatest generation" hated Nazis cause they where their enemy, not because they represented a horrible ideology that they wholesale disagreed with. Only when American interests became affected did they care, and ideologically examining the Nazis was not commonplace. I mean the US more or less stopped the Denazification very quickly and then brought them to America via operation paperclip.

The "greatest generation" is our version of what the "taming of the wild west" was for Boomers. A lie made to wash away the crimes of the past, so we don't actually examine them enough to realize we never change. We are not becoming LIKE Nazi Germany, cause that would imply we have been less like them then we always have been. Sure Jim Crow is over, but the point is that happened at the peak of America's supposed "greatness" and it took fighting the "greatest generation" tooth and nail to actually get any change to happen.

WWII and shortly post WWII America is what Nazi Germany idolized. I mean we freaking ceased critiques of Hitler, and labeled his detractors who actually examined why he was evil, like Charlie Chaplin, "un-american". We made fascism a joke cause we refused to admit that we are fascist. The Red-Scare was more akin to Nazi Germany's earliest acts than anything since in America or the UK.

Cause Hoover and the people of the 40s understood that THIS, was antithetical to the america they fought in WWII for


Oh and don't take it from me, take it from Captain America

 

That's why we need to keep fighting. I know there are many reasons for all of us, including you @appleseed , to be pessimistic. But even if there's a very small chance to get out of this maelstrom we are getting into, we have to take it. If our grandparents didn't do so during WW2, we would be living in a much much worse world today than currently.

And while this impeachment trial is still on, keep calling and contacting your senators and representatives. The Republican senators are afraid that, if they turn against Trump, they will kill their political career since Trump will lash out against them like a bully. We, the people, have to make those senators understand that, if they keep obstructing justice, they will still lose and kick them out in the states were they are the most likely to be beaten.

Even some conservatives and Republicans supporters, who don't like Trump and clearly see Mitch McConnel moves to exonerate Trump, are starting to target those weak Republican senators, like Susan Collins, and ask people in ads to kick them out of office, like The Lincoln Project

 

@vncredleader There's a difference between what the american political leaders thought of back before, and during WWII, and what the vets had to experience.

Even if America back in the 1930's and 1940's was not as shiny as one would like to think, those vets still deserve respect for their sacrifice. And what is currently happening, not just in the U.S., but around the world with rising authoritarianism in Brazil, India, Russia, Philippines, China, Bolivia, etc. isn't paying respect to their memory and everything that has been fought for ever since 1945.

Democracy itself is on trial. And Alexander Hamilton might have already predicted what is currently happening at the impeachment trial in the senate:

 

Steve Englehart and Sal Buscema on Cap. Great run.

And unfortunately, Jim Crow is back and it's why Trump is President, why Ron Desantis is Governor in Florida, why Rick "Skelator" Scott of the Medicare fraud is a Senator, and why Brian Kemp is Governor of Georgia.

The only era America was even remotely a Democracy where self determination existed was from 1966 to 2012.

 

I'm not saying the people are the same as their leaders, but the people supported internment camps, they supported isolation, they supported Hitler for a time, they supported anti-miscegenation laws, they supported Jim Crow, they supported and carried out firebombings of Japan and the dropping of the atom bomb, they supported the empire, they fought for their race's freedom with little regard for the races they didn't belong to.

I am gonna freely condemn them for that, the vets chose to experience a country that was an apartheid state. I am glad they killed Nazis, but I don't care about their thoughts on democracy or freedom or fascism inherently more than I care about anyone else's. It is not a matter of the past not being shiny, it is that we obfuscate our country's intrinsic sins by putting them on a pedestal. The attitude that they would be disappointing in how similar to fascism we are is so utterly hollow cause they fought to preserve an america that was the actual basis for Nazi Germany and that was far more fascist than modern america. Things can suck, and still not be closer to Nazism than when we literally didn't let black people vote.

I just find those kinds of sentiments to be in the end, disrespectful to the people who actively suffered as a result of the America that fought fascism, being fascist itself. It is not unfair to put that blame upon them, Smedley Butler already told us all how America is inherently authoritarian.

Those very nations you listen as having startling turns towards fascism, guess who caused most of them to end up that way and propped up fascist regimes there? It was the US, the US is not becoming more like Nazi Germany along with countries like Bolivia, Brazil, The Philippines, etc; America was always this much like Nazi Germany and actively put those nations on this track.

I don't respect what has been done since 1945 being harmed by the current America, cause this fate is what 1945 America continuously fought for from then till now. I pity Castro, Allende, Sankara, the Sandinistas, Patrice Lumumba, Malcolm X, etc cause they are the ones who fought against fascism, not just against people who are fascists. I am glad the Allies won, I am grateful, but we cannot pretend that what they fought for was not an inherently fascistic america.

Like the heroes of WWII like Lemay carried out all the horrors of bombing Japan and went on to keep doing the same thing in Vietnam and Cambodia. There is no skip, there is no "now america has thrown that away" this world that you rightly point out is terrifying is exactly in continuity with 1945 America and "everything that has been fought for ever since 1945".

This is just america with the mask a bit more off, but is exactly the same to the rest of the world as it has always been. American controlled Cuba and the Philippines (which we had still taken possession of in WWII and had nearly totally skipped liberating cause Roosevelt cared that little about them) don't see Trump's america as anything particularly different than the America that has tried to murder them for decades, that has paid for death squads to prop up dictators ever since the US finally left them alone, only by force in Cuba's case.

The same bombs, the same flag, the same BS justifications, the same rhetoric, the same white supremacist state, the same police state, the same death squads, the same state sponsored terrorists, the same deadly sanctions, the same America. We have to fully accept that this is no aberration, no sickness, but the actual nature of this country as it has always been and is only getting worse in overt ways to the american public in the middle class.

Our victims see no difference, We can be happy the Allies killed Nazis, and be resolute in the understanding that the America of WWII was a fascist state and went on to continue as an empire and has since spread fascism far and wide. We haven't changed, it is just not as easy to hide what this country is anymore.

I wouldn't go that far. Though I guess I am more talking about abroad than at home. At home we had the facade of self determination, but of course not really and just acted as tools through manufactured consent. We have never been free cause once the rich, white, male, landowners got what they wanted they decreed from on high "we are liberated and free now" and we are all told to buy it. This is why the revolution has to keep going. The dictatorship of the proletariat is necessary for class to end and for all people to be free.

As always there is an anecdote by my boy Paine

 

Obama and Clinton both inform us, in the last three decades, that Centrist candidates were the only ones who recently won a Presidential election in the USA - and that's not taking into account just how much farther aligned to the right the USA are compared with the rest of the western democracies. Democrats aren't going to beat Trump just by fielding a left-wing candidate and appealing to left-wing electors: in the USA, the numbers don't exist to win an election from the Left alone.

It's preferable for the USA that a candidate like Sanders gets the nomination, but in order to win, he will have to reassure and rally the Centre. And so will you - regardless of how much you disagree with them, and regardless of how bitter the losers are. Because if you don't manage, Trump wins. It's as simple as that.

 

Listen, I don’t totally disagree. Generation Z is now able to vote and they are, on the whole, more civicly engaged. But the thing is that for many of them, their top priority is global warming. So right away, the candidate who doesn’t believe in global warming is going to be a problem for them. Which is why, while many of the environmentalists that Times talked to want Bernie or Warren, when asked if Biden were the nominee instead, they ALL said they relunctantly would vote for him because he is still an improvement for the environment over Trump.

The depressed turnout, if we are to believe they are serious, comes from the older union workers who flat out said they will vote to protect their jobs- and that means they will vote Trump if the nominee is Bernie or Warren because those two flat out said they would ban fracking immediately while Biden indicated a gradual transition to avoid putting people out of work.

It’s simple math. While more young voters will turn out, if Bernie loses traditional voters for his stance on fracking, as Hillary did for her coal comments, and those people cross over to Trump or stay home, and Trump’s base stays with him, then Bernie could be in trouble. Couple this with additional interviews the times did in California speaking with young and old Latino voters and it points to a concerning pattern- the older voters will be very hard to persuade to get behind Bernie. The good news there however is that in the case or Latino voters, they seem intent to vote out Trump thanks to his racist policies. But if the Midwest and blue collar states stick with Trump, this gets very close.

The point here is that we should not underestimate Biden. He appeals to the older voters and is tolerated by the new voters should he be the nominee. That strongly indicates that his electability argument has merit still.

 

If we were to go for maximum entertainment, re-elect Trump but have the Senate go blue. It would be 24/7 Trump asking, time after time, why do "these people" think they can run the country when he was elected, because they would go against everything he tries to do.

 

The best part of the above scenario would be halting the stacking of the federal judiciary and ultimately, the Supreme Court. While I sadly don’t see RBG lasting until 2024, the optics of a Leader Schumer standing on the Senate floor and telling Trump that he is going to follow the “McConnell rule” and allow the American people to decide who the next nominee is going to be after the 2024 elections might just make ol’ Donnie stroke out.

Alternatively, he could offer Trump the renomination of Merrill Garland as a compromise tech. Either way, the Twitter tirades would be fodder for probably a decade’s worth of Saturday night live episodes

 

I feel terrible for the kids. I'm glad AOC is questions these people to get to the truth.

 

That is why Biden @Yodaminch would be incredibly smart to give a one term pledge and pick a younger and a bit more progressive candidate as his VP. That younger voters can see it for what it is. Joe is going in to just bring back stability and normalcy for a few years while the path to a more progressive platform is finalized.

 

Oops, looks like some autocorrect mischief in my previous post. Probably shouldn’t be on the boards while watching my 3-year old and 13-month old.

Keeping an anxious eye on the coronavirus situation. And no, sucking on limes will not protect you (saw that one on Instagram).

 

Aww thanks dude.

 

Check out this tweet from my son's 6th grade teacher from earlier this week:



I'm really proud of this 6th grade class. Can't wait until they can vote!

 

In fairness, your parents are not in an industry that the Democratic candidate promised to end correct? If they are, it appears they may be in the minority willing to lose their job.

Lest we forget “We’re going to put a lot of coal miners out of business”, that is what the danger is with fracking unions and workers.

If these people vote their job, and the nominee is not Biden, then they vote Trump. That is what they have said- they hate many things about Trump personally, but they can’t vote to be unemployed. And that is what Bernie and Liz have made them fear by saying they’d immediately ban fracking by executive order.

So as this continues, it is imperative that Bernie and Warren find ways to assuage their fears else it seems they will be handing these voters - who do not want to vote for Trump - directly to their opponent because these voters are voting for their livelihoods.

 

It appears that more than we thought. But more than that, it’s about the impact on the community as a whole. If the community depends on that income and the whole industry is shut down without a proper transition, then we have a repeat of Detroit when the auto industry was impacted.

Let’s be clear: I hate fracking. Biden is not my first or second choice and varies as my third. But the point remains that Trump will get these votes if he keeps their jobs safe. And apparently Trump is planning to campaign a lot in Pennsylvania and it will be about the fracking industry. If Trump can keep the unions for blue collar work like this, we are screwed.

 

"Oh, Lev Parnas can't be trusted" "I don't know this guy" Now there are pictures, audio, and a video too.

What will Republican senators and Trump supporters say now? My guess: "It's a double of Trump, and not really him."

 

Impeachment: Trump's Totalitarianism Vs The Founding Fathers!

 

The mainstream media is now paying a lot of attention towards Bernie Sanders. The impeachment trial is certainly helping him a lot as he keeps rising in the national polls for the nomination:

 

Michael Moore rallies for Bernie Sanders, urging voters to 'take a risk' in election

Filmmaker Michael Moore introduced Sen. Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez during a campaign town hall event in Iowa City, IA.

 

There's only one problem with this (may be the point, though): the Republicans aren't even trying to clean up after Trump.