The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan

If anyone's interested, there's a new interview with Robert Jordan. First one I've seen in a while. Only bits of interest:

1) He's now alternating: one WoT novel, then one WoT prequel novel, and so forth.
2) He hopes hopes hopes that the WoT sequence will only go two more books.

Other than that, nothing has changed since I pretty much stopped caring a few years ago.

 

Thanks for the link, Mas. Im going to check it out now.


Alternating ? Are you serious ? Why doesnt this guy just focus on the series at hand rather than go back and do prequels in the middle of the series ?!.


Its stuff like that that makes me understand why so many of you have been so frustrated with Jordan and this series.

 

Robert Jordan should have tried to keep it short, simple, stupid from the beginning and stayed that way, so it wouldn't read on like one of those seventy volume medieval romances.

 

The next book, Knife of Dreams, should be out in October 2005. Jordan says it should have enough incident to satisfy everyone. Another plus: whereas for years Wheel of Time books have been going to print six weeks after he's finished them, he's decided to change that and let more time in for editing between him finishing and publication. Yay!

 

its so far away

 

Doesn't anyone feel cheated that they've been milking the cow with this for so long? Why are dozens and dozens of reviews saying books from halfway into the misbegotten series are repeats of past events, just with different names?

Do you really think the main hero's battle with the big boss is going to be titanic as everyone hopes?

 

Do you really think the main hero's battle with the big boss is going to be titanic as everyone hopes?



Yessir. Yes I do.

 

It's funny because I don't hope for it to be titanic.

It's funny because all your info on the books was here say.

It?s also funny because not a one of the books after Lord?s of Chaos was a recap at all. Very very ungodly slow, yes. But not a recap at all.

-P!-

 

I advise anyone who hasn't already been sucked into buying Jordan's bloated epic to go and pick up George R.R. Martin's fantasy series... unlike the Wheel of Time, it lives up to all the hype.

Tyrion Lannister = Greatest Fantasy Character Ever.

 

A Song of Ice and Fire by George RR Martin is certainly better than Wheel of Time right now, but Martin may go too dark for darkness' sake and not the story and if he does so, he will lose me. I think he needs to balance the reality of his FANTASY world and his military-esque fiction.

Robert Jordan, on the other hand, can still salave things with two more killer volumes that bring things back to how they were in the first few volumes. Recently, while not a rehash, he has been decompressing the storyline to hideous extremes. The day-to-day minutae his is including is unnecessary, as are the myriad of storylines that really can be condensed. Were he to cut out, say, half his subplots, he'd have readers clamouring more than ever for his books, but as such, he is bogging down people in needless sidetrips that really do little for the overall.

 

I wouldn't say the problem is that they do nothing for the plot, but rather that he's very slow to develop them. So slow that it's very easy, and understandable, if one were to lose interest, or to stop caring for one particulier group of people. God knows at this point I'm about ready for a big meteor or something to just land on Perrins head to end that side quest.

Also, while Martins stuff may be great, as far as I know it's an incomplete series, with no end in site. Maybe not in volume number, but with author turn out. Jordan on the other hand has been pretty consistant, so I consider it to be a safer series to get involved with while lacking a conclusion.

-P!-

 

Lord Bane, hopefully those problems will be addressed when an editor gets its hands on the ms. Of course, then we stand the risk of Jordan taking until Q305 to finish the book, and the editor whittling it down to 200 pages or so. . .

 

Tyrion Lannister; Song of Ice and Fire was alive only for the first 2 books, his page presence died in the next. And lets not forget Dany did practically nothing in book 2, and that for a whopping 1200 pages of book 3, Bran did nothing but walk around and talk and talk. Nobody does anything but dream, dream, dream, and Martin's repetitious wordage is shocking.

No. Song of Ice and Fire is not exceptionally. It has only been hyped up.

Unless you get horny over seeing the conept of an undead army yet again in fantasy. Thrilled at Tyrion's repulsive filth scenes. Or delighted in Sansa cowering for 1900 pages.

Thank you, but no.

 

Wow, havent seen this thread in a while.

Anyway, I read The Shadow Rising a few months back and really liked it. Its easily the best of the series of far (I just hope Jordan hasnt peaked with this one), but I can already see myriad plot threads developing even at this early stage. I really enjoyed it, though, especially Rand's journey into the Waste (which totally reminded me of Paul Atreides spiritual journey to become a Fremen in Dune, but anyway...) and the Forsaken taking over Tar Valon. Perrin's parts were easily the best of the whole book, though.

 

I read that about a year ago, and I don't remember anything about the Forsaken in Tar Valon. So um... what?

Turth told the myriad of plot threads aren't that hard to follow once you're into them. Going months without reading one of them can make you lose track of where everybody is though. Yet once you're reminded, it's not a problem.

I personally think that you have about two or three more books to go in the series before things start to slow down to a snails crawl. They're still good books, but they wander with no goal in mind and just go so slowelly.

-P!-

 

Perhaps Im wrong about the Forsaken taking over Tar Valon. I know that Morgase's Aes Sedai advisor led the coup, but maybe I was mistaken in thinking that she was under the influence of a Forsaken. I could very easily be wrong since its been close to seven months since Ive read it.


Speaking of which, Ive got to start reading these books more closely together or Ill never remember anything !

 

Tyrion Lannister; Song of Ice and Fire was alive only for the first 2 books, his page presence died in the next.

I thought that Tyrion was at his best in book 3; certainly he had the lines that put the biggest grins on my face.


And lets not forget Dany did practically nothing in book 2, and that for a whopping 1200 pages of book 3,

Practically nothing? Besides becoming a Queen, gathering up a rather large army, got the greatest knight of her homeland as her personal bodyguard and ditched one of her longest serving advisors? I suppose if you exclude that you?re absolutely right.


Bran did nothing but walk around and talk and talk.

I?ll give you that one. Except for escaping over the Wall and showing how smart he was several times along the way, he didn?t do a whole lot.


Nobody does anything but dream, dream, dream,

I seem to recall a couple of major characters dying or suffering from some rather major shocks, and the fight at the Wall and through the North was great.


and Martin's repetitious wordage is shocking.

I don?t find him at all repetitive in his language.


No. Song of Ice and Fire is not exceptionally. It has only been hyped up.

I think that I?ve probably read more than anyone in here other than Mastadge (and I may even have him beat), and in my experience it is exceptional ? there?s only a handful of novels in the genre that even come close. I formed this opinion based on reading the books; it was after reading them that I discovered that others felt the same way. So, to each his own.


Unless you get horny over seeing the conept of an undead army yet again in fantasy.

Please give examples of undead armies as the major threat in pseudo-medieval fantasy novels predating 1996.


Thrilled at Tyrion's repulsive filth scenes.

I?m surprised you mention Tyrion but not Jaime. In any case, I didn?t find it any filthier than I found Robert E. Howard doing Conan, Giovanni Boccaccio doing the Decameron, etc. Like violence, sex does have a place in novels provided it?s used properly, and I believe that Martin uses it properly.


Or delighted in Sansa cowering for 1900 pages.

While I?d like to wring Sansa?s neck, I do think that she plays an important and believable role. Lets face it, most people in their right minds would be scared stiff in her position.


Thank you, but no.

Suit yourself.

 

(and I may even have him beat)

Blasphemy!



You definitely have me beat when it comes to nonfic and comics. Don't know about novels and stories, but I'd guess I've got the edge there.

 

DVader, maybe you're referring to the Forsaken taking control of Caemlyn through Morgase?

Reading them together really helps too. I read from Fires of Heaven on in a single shot. Fried half my brain, but it kept things straight.

Edit: Doh doh doh, the Aes Sedai coup in Tar Valon you mean. Yes, that was cool. No, Elaida isn't under the direct control of the Forsaken, you hear internal monologues where she is clearly against them. You may have already, or if not you will fairly soon as far as screen time with her is concerned. However, that isn't to say that instability in the tower isn't something the Forsaken won't love.

Really, I think reading them in a row helps a lot. I couldn't even think of Elaida's name just now, yet while reading it I could probably name a good 30 characters.

-P!-

 

You definitely have me beat when it comes to nonfic and comics. Don't know about novels and stories, but I'd guess I've got the edge there.

That's pretty much what I suspect; towards the end of a school term I'm usually reading 2-3 non-fiction books a day to research a paper, and in the rest of the year it?s still two or three a week. For example, today I polished off The Battle of Arnhem by Christopher Hibbert, read Churchill and Hitler by John Strawson and have started The Memoirs of Field Marshall Montgomery ? I?m 200 pages in and slogging for what I?m worth. But I can?t read novels even close to that fast as I read novels in completely different ways. With nonfic I?m looking for facts and figures and ideas and I don?t linger on something unless I?m having trouble following it. With novels, I usually go much slower, as I?m always rereading passages I think were particularly well-written or interesting, and flipping back to compare how a character reacted in one scene with how the character acted in another scene. I?ll often put the book down and just imagine what could happen next or what might have happened differently, and so I do well to read an entire fictional novel in a day.

So, I think that you probably have a large edge in short stories given how rarely I read short stories, and a slight edge in novels. You certainly find more from the nooks and crannies of the fantasy genre than I do, and you?re probably a little better read than I am when it comes to classics. I?ll also confess that while I like poetry in small doses, I struggle with it in large doses. For example, Dante?s Inferno was interesting enough, but it convinced me that I don?t really want to read his books about Purgatory or Paradise. The same goes where Milton is concerned ? Paradise Lost was good, but I don?t want to read beyond that.

 

. No, Elaida isn't under the direct control of the Forsaken, you hear internal monologues where she is clearly against them.

Of course, Egwene is directly under the control of the Forsaken, though she's unaware of it so far.

 

Real spoilers now DVader, steer clear.









I don't think Egwene is directly under their control. They seem to be trying to influence her in some way obviously, but to what ends I'm not sure. Also how large an influence it is is unknown.

Yet Elaida is putting up with daily spankings, literally, thanks to them. I'd say they have a much more direct hold on Elaida than Egwene. Especially considering it's unknown how big a hold they really have over Egwene. For all we know, the headaches are a symptom of her successful countering of their control. Yet she did decide to accept the Oath Rod, which seemed against her "progressive" ideas.

Also, by direct control I was speaking like if she were a Shadow Friend, or Black Ajah.

-P!-

 

I agree with you completely about ASoIaF, Raven. GRRM has written some truly amazing books that are easily among the best fantasy Ive read to date. As far as epic fantasy goes, not many are on the level of a Martin or a Stover.

 

Stover's stuff is simply great, yet I somehow can't read his Caine stuff in one go. Both times I have stopped in the middle of them, gone on to something else, and come back. By the end I have NO idea why I'd ever put his stuff down, I really do love them.

Haven't read Jericho Moon or Iron Dawn yet. They're both just sitting on my shelf waiting. I think the cliched and... Fabio esque covers are putting me off. I get enough funny looks for what, and how much I read from people around me.

Martin's series is what, 4 books into a 7 book arc? Something like that. With his horribly slow output, I'm a bit anxious about getting involved with that series right now, yet I've heard nothing but great things, and it seems very interesting.

(I hate reading incomplete series, WoT is an exception due to constant output, and me thinking it would take me 2-3 years to get through it all. It took me two months or less, oops.)

-P!-

 

I agree with the fact that there's so much to remember, if you leave it for a while you forget where you left off...

I like this series, and I don't read much new fantasy (much more into sci-fi). Although that might make my opinion less valid according to some... I agree that it's reeeealy, reeeealy long. The plot is very convoluted and fragmented at this point. But the twists and turns make me care a lot about the characters