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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph To Boldly Trek Where Many Geeks Have Gone Before- VOY: Drive, Repression & Imperfection

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest , Jun 25, 2006.

  1. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    IIRC, what was shunned was a symbiote resuming a romantic relationship from a past host once joined to a new host. They want the symbiotes to collect new life experiences, not continue old ones as a means of immortality.
     
  2. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000

    DS9 704: Take Me Out to the Holosuite
    -Premise: When Captain Solok of the Federation starship T'Kumbra challenges former classmate Sisko and his crew to a game of baseball, Sisko refuses to lose and begins to take the game too seriously.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: An overtly a-hole Vulcan.

    "We will destroy them."

    Well, if you couldn't tell from the title that this episode would involve baseball... I'm getting the suspicion that this episode was made just so that they could film the cast and crew's weekend baseball game...

    One would think that, given the versatility of a holosuite, someone like Rom who is having difficulty with the skills of the game could be given a batting cage or throwing practice setup to develop them outside of the regular practice with his teammates.

    "Look, let's dispense with the crowd... our budget can't afford these extras for more than a couple shots."

    [​IMG]

    "Death to the opposition!"

    [​IMG]

    So, while it's difficult to not enjoy the final scene, the episode overall is still a short baseball story (probably the best way to distill the game, heh) but it ultimately doesn't have much in the way of a Star Trek story twist to it. That said, it's harmlessly enjoyable as just a random excuse to put the characters into a baseball game. Average.

    Trivia: This episode aired the same week as the 1998 World Series. Based on an episode of Fame titled "The Ol' Ball Game" and done in the tone of The Bad News Bears. Cirroc Lofton (Jake) is the nephew of MLB player Kenny Lofton who had played for the Braves the previous year and would later play for the Giants. Jake wears a Braves cap during practice while Ben wears a Giants cap.

    Though all of the Vulcan names are listed in a native Vulcan script on a scoresheet prop and their player uniforms, since no characters other than Solok were named, no translations are available.

    Rom's actor was actually the most skilled baseball player in the cast and had at one time had considered going pro before deciding to become an actor. He had to play left handed in order to look like a bad player as he was incapable of playing as badly as the character was supposed to. Armin and Aron were also talented players while Nana Vistor was considered the worst player.

    Ira felt the main shortcoming of the episode was that Solok ended up being absent for most of the episode and the shift in focus to Rom's story. this is the first time we see Rom without a Ferengi headdress on.

    This is the only on-screen use of the Anthem of the United Federation of Planets.


    Prepare for the Birth of a Miracle:


    Prepare for the Mother of All Voyagers:

    VOY 502: Drone
    -Premise: A transporter accident involving The Doctor's mobile emitter and Seven's nanoprobes results in the creation of a 29th century Borg.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: You know, this moment where Chakotay provides a solution to a difficult beaming process kinda makes me realize how often it's one of the senior staff that has to provide a seemingly simple solution to problematic transports to crew members whose duty apparently involves them doing nothing but manning a transporter for their entire shift. You'd think someone like that- who by now has at least 4 years experience (and potentially more prior to their assignment aboard Voyager)- would be aware of such solutions and tricks moreso than command crew on a day to day basis (except for maybe someone like Janeway who tends to be more mechanically inclined).

    [​IMG]

    Odd that the transport operator is leaving too. Why is there a video comm station in her bathroom in the first place?.

    Ah, it figures the transport operator is doomed- because of course when a room starts glowing Borg Green from strange technology, you get closer to it without first notifying/warning others of the situation. I will say this is an interesting situation- the setup is almost a preemptive "I, Borg" minus the personal prejudices.

    "Maybe this is the Collective's new strategy- they don’t assimilate anymore, they just show up and look helpless." That's the concern, alright.

    I know that it is done for the sake of the audience but there's really no reason why the Borg Sphere crew would verbally announce their change in course (as well as the reason) to themselves...

    [​IMG]

    It seems this Future Borg costuming overlooked the need for the actor to turn their head (unlike traditional Borg designs)- likely the result of the need to keep the back of the head cap from pulling away from the head. It's kind of unfortunate because it forces the actor into some awkward motions in order to maneuver and face people.

    The breaking free of the tractor beam is a rather dynamic shot- adds a nice amount of scale. So, that had more of a downer ending than I expected. I mean, I didn't expect One to survive but the way that it happened was a strong turn and made for a really strong epiode. Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: The original pitch for this episode involved Tom Paris crash landing the Delta Flyer and having to have his arm reattached using Borg technology. The subsequent pitch involved the 29th century drone concept but characterized the Borg as a "Terminator Drone" before the concept was reworked to be more character-oriented.

    During the scene where One is assimilating information from Voyager's computers, the LCARS schematics of various craft are cycled through- and just towards the end one of them is for the Sovereign-class. This is the only "appearance" of the class on Voyager and one of only four such "appearances" on TV. First appearance of a Borg Sphere outside of First Contact.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018
  3. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000

    DS9 705: Chrysalis
    -Premise: Jack, Lauren, Patrick, and Sarina, the genetically-engineered Humans, return to the station, asking Bashir to help rouse Sarina from her cataleptic state.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Return of the special people from the "we'll lose the war" prediction episode.

    ”Julian, I can't break the laws of physics- nobody can!" Uh, you're on Star Trek, sir.

    The "sister act" scene is certainly a unique moment- not too often there's a spontaneous musical number outside of holodeck or Ten Forward scheduled performances. Very cheerful. So naturally things will have to go tragically wrong.

    Surprisingly, they don't take the obvious "the procedure stops working" route, even though they mislead you down that path briefly. This is a pretty solid standalone. Good Episode, But Not Necessarily Essential. However, if one adds this to their viewing list, the sixth season episode "Statistical Probabilities" is recommended (on my list as "Potentially Essential" for that purpose).

    Trivia: The original concept for this episode was based on Flowers for Algernon and involved Jack being "cured" of his neurosis to help lead the group on a mission for Starfleet (with Section 31 being involved) before reverting to his his previous state (my aforementioned concerns about “the procedure stops working” cliche) and being abandoned by Starfleet.

    The actress who played Sarina had to audition for her part again to make sure she was capable of fronting the story, but alleviated any concerns within seconds. The direction for Sarina went against normal actor instincts in that she was instructed to play the character without subtext.

    The four actors had different reactions to finding out they had to sing: the actress who plays Lauren had no problems with it as she had been in a punk band in the 80's, the actor playing Patrick enjoyed it, the actor playing Jack was tone deaf and had to be dubbed over (which is kinda obvious in the finished episode) and the actress playing Sarina discovered she'd had an amazing voice and loved it.


    It’s Not About Courage:


    On Your Mark, Get Set, Go!:

    VOY 503: Extreme Risk
    -Premise: The crew races to build a new shuttle designed by Tom Paris, in order to retrieve a multispatial probe trapped inside a gas giant. Meanwhile, B'Elanna Torres's attitude worries the crew.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: I wonder if Torres is borrowing Shatner's costume from the deleted Generations opening sequence? The probe has a vague Sith Infiltrator vibe about it. The toxic dumpers return here.

    So they have the capability to build the Delta Flyer (hey, Aero-Shuttle, **** you!)- perhaps this explains their seemingly endless supply of shuttles?

    "And, in the future, if you come across anything that bares the insignia of the U.S.S. Voyager? Head in the other direction."
    "You are making a serious-"
    "End transmission."

    It does take a little bit away from the possibility of a dramatic reveal of the finished Delta Flyer once we've already seen someone pilot it in the simulator- but then I suppose that makes logical sense given the technology at hand. Interesting that this becomes a sort of epilogue to the Maquis story arc.

    Paris says he could use an extra hand- and Janeway has Chakotay go down to fulfill that role. But, really? With a time crunch the best choice is to send a command officer from the bridge down to the shuttle bay instead of grabbing someone else who might be on the same (or, at the very least, closer) deck? They've had a bunch of people working on this thing around the clock for days- surely there's someone else nearby?

    So, wait, they could use an extra set of hands- so they kick off the other Vulcan to make room for her? How the hell does that help? You're not even replacing specialties (they're both engineers- granted one is better than the other), but how would Chakotay replacing the Vulcan have been an improvement?

    There's, like, three slices of bananas on those banana pancakes. That does not qualify as banana pancakes.

    So, pretty solid episode- Torres's storyline has some greater meaning to things (though the full resolution may seem a little quick) and we have the introduction of the Delta Flyer, so, Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: The plot originated with a conversation between Dawson and the producers where she expressed interest in the idea of selfharm and depression and how it would be interesting to explore that with Torres. The suit Torres wears is the one designed for Shatner in Generations. It is speculated that it would have required some modification for it to be used by Dawson.

    Ken Biller was mixed about the episode, liking the scene between Chakotay and B'Elanna but not liking that it relied on a previous episode. IMO, The latter is actually a positive, not a negative.

    Up Next: DS9 706: Treachery, Faith and the Great River, VOY 504: In the Flesh, DS9 707: Once More Unto the Breach & VOY 505: Once Upon a Time

    Voyager Resources:

    Shuttles: (Unknown Starting Value)
    -1 destroyed by Chakotay/Kazon in Initiations, unnamed.
    -1 destroyed by Kim in Non Sequitur, Drake.
    -1 destroyed by Paris in Partuition, unnamed.
    -1 dismantled by ex-Borg Raiders in Unity, unnamed.
    -1 lost to Kes's evolution in The Gift, unnamed.
    -1 destroyed by Chakotay in Nemesis, unnamed.
    -1 destroyed by the Caatati in Day of Honor, Cochrane.
    -1 abandoned by Seven in The Raven, unnamed.
    -1 captured by Hirogen, destroyed by Janeway's actions in Hunters, unnamed (actually, Cochrane, again).
    -1 destroyed/abandoned by away team in Drone, unnamed.
    -1 created by Voyager crew in Extreme Risk, Delta Flyer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2018
  4. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I straight up love Take Me Out to the Holosuite and Drone. Drone is oddly really affecting and Holosuite is a whole lot of fun and the first time we see Ezri as a part of the crew and not having an episodic focus. And I love how the Vulcan simply dismantles Sisko so easily and every line Worf has is perfect "FIND HIM AND KILL HIM!!"

    In my head, this episode is actually something that is stretched out across multiple episodes throughout the season and we're seeing a condensed version of it. Like if it was a distinctly serialized show, it would be a season-long sub-plot or whatever. It does make it go down a bit easier than in the middle of the Dominion War the crew suddenly got real uptight about a baseball game.
     
  5. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000

    DS9 706: Treachery, Faith and the Great River
    -Premise: Odo is contacted by Weyoun, who reveals that he wants to defect to the Federation. Meanwhile, O'Brien and Nog sail down the Great Material Continuum.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Nog teasing Miles is another example of their interactions working surprisingly well- like when Nog was promoted.

    "Then let's just say I left Cardassia because my life was in danger."
    "From whom?"
    "Everyone."
    "Aren't you being a little paranoid?"
    "Of course I'm paranoid-everyone is trying to kill me."

    I find the implication that Damar killed Weyoun-5 in a transporter "accident"- and that the other Weyouns pretty much know it, fantastically amusing. He did comment about wanting to wipe the smirk off of the Vorta's face back in Sacrifice of Angels...

    "We learn about the Continuum while we still have our first set of ears." UGGGHHH! I did not need to know that was a part of Ferengi biology! You there! Mind Bleach! Stat!

    The warp battle is a bit more dynamic than most in terms of camera movement and such- though the resolution seems a bit too easy.

    [​IMG]

    "I know to Starfleet the Prophets are nothing more than Wormhole Aliens..." because they are "but to me, they're gods." but also still Wormhole Aliens "I can't prove it- but then again, I don't have to." but you can prove they're Wormhole Aliens.

    So, pretty solid episode- some good character moments, good action and some significant developments in the overall story. Plus, double Jeffrey Combs, so, bonus. Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: The original idea for this episode involved Weyoun going to Sisko to warn him about the Founders breeding a new race called the Modain to replace the Jem'Hadar with- a race more aggressive and loyal to the Founders than the Jem'Hadar. However, after destroying the breeding facility, Sisko discovers that the Modain were intended to replace the Vorta.

    The B-story with Nog was based on the novel Catch 22. The idea of an officer who just wants to sit behind the desk of famous Starfleet commanders was a joke by Ira Behr over how obsessive Trekkies can become.

    This was Combs's favorite episode due to his getting to play two different types of Weyouns- "I thought of each Weyoun as a different slice of the same pizza. One just didn't have any pepperoni on it.”. That's the type of analogy I would have expected Combs to make and it is fantastic- especially since he eats pepperoni off of a pizza in the episode.

    Cinefantastique listed this as the 10th best episode of DS9. This is the first named appearance of the Rio Grande since The Ascent in early Season 5, confirming that it was salvaged and repaired.
     
  6. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    This May Look Like Home:

    She Looks Human:

    (geez, a Species rip off?)
    VOY 504: In the Flesh
    -Premise: Voyager finds a station containing a disturbingly accurate re-creation of Starfleet Command and Starfleet Academy by Species 8472.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: The Starfleet gardner returns.

    This opening is only now making me realize that this series should have totally done the occasional entirely-flashback episode telling stories before they got lost, which would have allowed the characters to interact with different Starfleet/Maquis crews on occasion and allowed them to tell the Alpha Quadrant-like stories they tried to tell in the first couple seasons without them feeling out of place.

    Woah, also, a couple of Ferengi in Starfleet. Nog really did open the door, didn't he? But wait, is this a flashback episode or something else? Because if it's the former, Nog wouldn't have been in Starfleet yet...

    Mention of the Intrepid- unless I'm forgetting a reference from earlier in the show, it seems like a big coincidence that Chakotay would happen to serve on the Intrepid and then later get marooned aboard an Intrepid-class for the series...

    "Valerie Archer", I wonder...

    Ah, well, I guess things are not what they seem; I'm wondering if the presence of Ferengi officers wouldn't raise some questions with the crew- clearly it's possible they've been informed of Nog's Starfleet career from their Message in a bottle contact but I'd question whether or not that was a high enough of a priority for a "what you missed in the last 4 years- oh and we're at war" summary.

    "He may look human, he may sound human, he may even smell human but there's no question- we're conserving the budget."

    Ok, I may have snarked too soon.

    "Doesn't matter how they got their data" actually I'd argue it very much does....

    "And I don't need to remind you that we have no way to warn Starfleet Command" well, maybe if you found out how Species 8472 got their info...and yet in the next scene she's suddenly so concerned about how they got their info to the point where she's checking the whole crew.

    “2 down, 125 to go", woah, did we lose, like 15+ people since The Killing Game?;

    "Personally, I don't go out with girls from other galaxies" Ok, Tom, I'm calling total bullcrap on that- there's easily several examples from earlier in this series alone.

    The music during the brief hopeless-escape sequence is catchy.

    "19 standard torpedoes and three class-10's armed with high yield warheads". Wonder what those are? Of course, it doesn't matter because either way we have anywhere from 9 to 27 torpedoes that have magically appeared (more, if the implication of Janeway's commands are that they can fit more torpedoes/warheads with nanoprobes).

    Interesting that Janeway intentionally lies about not having made contact with Earth for over 4 years.

    "We're entering a stage of diplomacy where most of the problems will be cultural.” 'How DO you shake hands with an 8472?’”

    Janeway hunting for the coffee shop, heh. So, in a way, this is the "I, Borg" of Species 8472. Though we're only just over a season from having introduced them as the Next Big Bad and they're already potentially defanging them as a threat. I wonder if it's just because they fell in love with the Borg and decided to go back to them instead?

    Since this potentially wraps up much of the 8472 threat/arc while also setting up potential future state of interactions with them, I'm going to go with Definitely Essential, though the episode is a "good, not great" type deal.

    Trivia: Writen by Carl Sagan's son, Nick. The original idea for this episode involved the discovery of an image of an 8472 on ancient Earth and that they were the genesis of many demon and devil legends. The evolution of the episode was then to lead to a large-scale battle, with 8472 reinforcements arriving and Voyager having to escape, leaving it opened ended as to what may have been accomplished by Voyager's talks. Eventually they realized it shouldn't be about a big battle, however, this made the discussion between the 8472s and the crew in the briefing room one of the hardest scenes to write because, as Braga said, "You had to be satisfied that you had a climax, but it was a climax of diplomacy."

    Sagan came up with Valerie Archer's last name by combining Dave Bowman from 2001 with Ellie Arroway from Carl Sagan's Contact. "You put bow and arrow together and you get Archer”.

    Several FX-heavy sequences were cut from the episode for budget reasons- including a dream sequence of 8472 razing Janeway's hometown on Earth. Tucker Smallwood played Admiral Bullock here while suffering from Bell's Palsy which rendered part of his face unresponsive for expressions other than "stern”. This episode is the final appearance of the type 1 phaser in the franchise.



    DS9 707: Once More Unto the Breach
    -Premise: With the Dominion War raging, the old Klingon warrior Kor feels left out of the action, and looks for some way to get his share of the honor of battle. However, his efforts to play a part are stymied by Martok, who holds a grudge against Kor.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Kor returns. "She died a warrior" well, that's not exactly true…

    [​IMG]

    Nice to see the BOP's in some atmospheric action- you never think about them much in that setting despite their heavy use in ST4.

    So this wraps up Kor in this franchise- not necessarily a character who demanded a resolution but the opportunity was welcome. The episode as a whole is a little predictable but it has some good character moments. I'm going to go with Potentially Essential. You don't miss much if skip this one, but you get a small dose of closure for a broader stroke of the franchise.

    Trivia: Based upon the cited legend of Davy Crockett and the Battle of Alamo. The rivalry between Kor and Martok was based on the differences in how the actors had portrayed their characters.

    A deleted scene involves Jake trying to cheer up Quark by making him a drink- only to repeatedly get distracted by Quark and have to start over.

    This was John Colicos's final appearance as Kor in the franchise and his final acting role before his death a year and a half later. Kor is apparently the only person besides Sisko and Jake to have known Curzon, Jadzia and Ezri.


    A Force of Nature:

    Buried Alive:

    VOY 505: Once Upon a Time
    -Premise: Neelix tries to take care of young Naomi Wildman whose mother was aboard the Delta Flyer when it crashed into a planet during an ion storm.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: So it seems Voyager has its own child growing up onboard. Had forgotten about her. Gotta wonder how many random viewers changed the channel during the opening kid programming holodeck sequence. Not that it's bad for what it's trying to achieve, but rather a "oh, there's a kids thing on now, try a different channel" type deal. The kid's reaction to Seven is pretty funny, however.

    I kinda question the decision to land a ship that supposedly has taken notable damage- surely it's more of a danger to try to land a damaged vessel into an atmosphere than to keep in space and await retrieval? I get that the storm is seemingly dangerous- but more dangerous?

    Seven says she was 6 when she was assimilated and Neelix says that that was not much older than Naomi is now... but she does not look like she is 5 years old.

    "Coffee anyone? Captain?"
    "No thanks, I've had enough. One more cup and I'll jump to warp."

    I'm wondering if Tim Russ is Awesome moments are becoming obligatory by now?

    Though a logical inclusion for the story, the "finals words" scenes for Tom, Wildman and Tuvok don't really achieve the sense of helplessness needed to add the needed weight to these scenes as we know they're going to be rescued. Granted, that's to be expected, but the scenes don't manage to overcome that expectation (even if, again, the moments themselves are good).

    Mostly a Neelix episode, but not bad for one. Still, not much here that is particularly essential and, while harmless, doesn't excel into a must-see category either. So I'm going with Average.

    Trivia: The original script for this episode was told entirely from the holodeck adventure perspective, with only glimpses of a war going on outside that Voyager was a part of. This was changed as they didn't want wars happening on both Trek shows;

    Up Next: DS9 708: The Siege of AR-558, VOY 506/508: Nothing Human, DS9 709: Covenant & VOY 507/506: Timeless.

    Voyager Resources:

    Crew: (152 People, as of The 37's)
    -Death Wish: Quinn/Q2 joins the crew (153 remain), then commits suicide. (152 remain)
    -Alliances: Kurt Bandera, dead. (151 remain)
    -Meld: Darwin, dead. (150 remain)
    -Investigations: Michael Jonas, dead. (149 remain)
    -Deadlock: Wildman baby born. (150 remain)
    -Innocence: Ensign Bennet, dead. (149 remain)
    -Basics, Part I: Bridge crewmember shot, presumed dead (148 remain)
    -Basics, Part II: Hogan, Suder & blue uniform crewmember, dead (145 remain)
    -Warlord: Martin, dead. (144 remain)
    -Unity: Ensign Marie Kaplan, dead. (143 remain)
    -Distant Origin: Five unknown people potentially added to crew, as crew is stated to be 148. (143 or 148 remain)
    -(Latent Image; between Worst Case Scenario & Scorpion): Ahni Jetal, dead. (142 or 147 remain)*
    -Scorpion, part II: Seven of Nine joins the crew (143 or 148 remain)
    -Scientific Method: Ensign Roberta Luke, dead. (142 or 147 remain)
    -(Ashes to Ashes & Imperfection; between Hunters & Prey): Lyndsay Ballard, dead (141 or 146 remain)**
    -The Killing Game, Part I: Unidentified crew member, dead. (140 or 145 remain)
    -Living Witness: 3 unidentified crew members killed by the Kyrian incursion. (137 or 142 remain)
    -One: Unidentified officer, dead from nebula burns. (136 or 141 remain)
    -In the Flesh: Doctor totals 128 crew members ("2 down" + "125 to go" + the Doctor)- so either 8-13 people have died since (or offscreen during) The Killing Game or 8-13 people didn't need to be treated). (128, 136 or 141 remain)

    *Season 5 episode affecting chronologically earlier events,
    **Season 6 & 7 episodes, listed here in advance for proper tally moving forward
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
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  7. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    It is- it really was a pleasant surprise in that regard. A further plus for having a somewhat fresh Borg story at this juncture when it'd be easy for them to become tiresome.




    DS9 708: The Siege of AR-558
    -Premise: During a supply run to AR-558, Sisko finds the defending Starfleet unit with over two thirds of the troops dead and the remaining soldiers' morale to be extremely low. When the Defiant comes under attack, Sisko, Bashir, Dax, Nog, and Quark choose to remain on the planet, which is about to come under attack by a much larger contingent of Jem'Hadar soldiers.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: I kinda feel like Quark commenting on him being aboard is simply the writers acknowledging he shouldn't be but wanting to have him aboard anyways.

    Someone's name here is "Patrick Kilpatrick".

    Ooh, Bill Mumy is in this episode. Looking at the airing dates, this probably would have been filmed around the same time as Lennier’s final appearance in Season 5 of B5 (Objects at Rest). In fact, both episodes originally aired on the same day! Double Mumy!

    The shots fired during the scouting mission are quite startling. It's nice to get a ground battle for a change of pace- albeit it one that is more of a “hold your ground”-type shoot out.

    So, another solid entry into the Dominion War arc. It's not a happy episode, for sure. Though not technically essential (the injuries on Nog being followed up in a couple episodes would make it at least Potentially Essential), it's worthy of being Definitely Essential. My positive reaction to Paper Moon later on also retroactively supports this classification.

    Trivia: “558” is taken from the production number of the episode: 40510-558. Loosely based on the Battle of Guadalcanal between the Allies and Japan in WW2. Several names are borrowed from the film Hell is for Heroes. The selection of characters were chosen based on their lack of fighting experience.

    The development of this episode was controversial, with a lot of people not wanting them to do it, but Ira felt they needed to be as uncompromising as possible in regards to portraying war.

    Nicole de Boer objected to the director’s desire to have them beam down in a crouched position, pointing out that “Nobody ever beams in crouched down” which was subsequently confirmed by the production office so the shot was altered as a result. ST09 would later break that precedent by having Spock beaming down in a crouched down.

    Armin felt this episode included some of Quark’s finest moments in the series. Originally Nog was to have lost both his legs but Moore argued for a less severe loss.

    Bill Mumy isn’t the only Babylon 5 regular in this episode- Patricia Tallman also appears as a stunt double. After filming the scene where Mumy’s character is killed, Ira announced via megaphone to the cast and crew that “Star Trek just killed Will Robinson!”.



    Beware:


    To Save a Life:


    VOY 506/508: Nothing Human
    -Premise: When an injured, non-humanoid alien attaches itself to Lt. Torres, a hologram of a notorious Cardassian exobiologist is created to help The Doctor remove it from her.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: I'm wondering if I've never noticed it before or if the shot of the ship exiting warp here while the nacelles revert to their lower position is a new shot?

    They say they need to make a hologram as complex as the Doctor, and they claim Harry can do it, yet it was only last season where they couldn't achieve that goal for a replacement Doctor.

    [​IMG]

    One aspect they've played with here that I like is the hostility towards the Cardassian- it helps make use of the long-abandoned Maquis friction in a way that doesn't undo the crew's integration. I somehow doubt this will continue past this episode, unfortunately, but it's a notable element that Voyager could have exploited in more detail. Making him a mass murderer obviously changes the focus on that friction, but the earlier point is still valid.

    Good Episode But Not Necessarily Essential- but still recommended.

    Trivia: Moset is based partially on Joseph Mengele, but with a grayer "greater good" approach. Dawson hated taking part in this episode as all she had to do was lay there with a bug on her during the same week her dog died.

    This is the final Star Trek episode written by Jeri Taylor- her first episode was for TNG, titled Suddenly Human.



    DS9 709: Covenant
    -Premise: Kira is abducted by a cult that worships the Pah-wraiths and is led by their "Master" - Dukat.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments:Kira is very bubbly for the teaser- at least for the first 3 minutes or so. Moreso than usual. I suspect we're in for some juxtaposition on that front by episode's end. Teaser ends with a nice little OF COURSE YOU ARE! moment.

    Kinda interesting that the anti-Prophets cult is on effectively the anti-DS9. Though it has been over a season, surely someone could have fixed that tilting camera outside the station by now? ;) And Dukat see himself as, effectively, the anti-Emmisary.

    Given the continual comparisons of him to Hitler over the seasons, Dukat's organization wearing a red armband is a little too on-the-nose, don't'cha think?

    3 light years doesn't seem all that far of a range given likely distances between solar systems, let alone far enough to be "deep" within Dominion space.

    Although the resolution might be a little too easy (because clearly there was something to this cult before Dukat arrived and Dukat clearly brought something real to it even if his faith ended up being short), it's an interesting continuation of the Pah-Wraith subplot- and Dukat is always entertaining regardless, so we'll go with Definitely Essential.

    Trivia: Originally the baby was shot using an animatronic baby produced by the people who made the Chucky doll but it ended up looking utterly unconvincing, garnering laughter on set as they shot with it, so it was ultimately decided it be shot so that the baby not be seen by the camera for most of the scene.

    This episode was specifically inspired by the Heaven's Gate cult who committed suicide in 1997- Nichelle Nicols's brother was among their number.
     
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  8. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    A Race Against Time Itself:


    Trust Us, The First 99 Episodes Were a Prelude to What’s Next:

    (don’t trust them)
    VOY 507/506: Timeless
    -Premise: A failed attempt to return home results in Voyager crash-landing on an ice world and also in the deaths of the crew, except Chakotay and Harry Kim. Now, fifteen years later, the two men, having resigned from Starfleet, attempt to alter history to save the ship from disaster before Starfleet can stop them.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: They probably should have lingered on this opening shot more- you almost don't notice the ship under the ice.

    Why do they leave that power cell on the busted console? Wouldn't it be useful to retrieve for another terminal? It'd be less wasteful for two people who presumably have finite resources at their disposal...

    4 years, 2 months, 11 days since Voyager arrived in the Delta Quadrant. As we are about a third of the way through the 5th season now, that follows TNG’s precedent of not having every season = 1 year of time. Which makes sense (afterall, you’d otherwise be having major events at the end of every season occurring around the same time of year every year, which would be strange)- but one can’t help but enjoy the organizational efficiency of a season-per-year…

    Harry's idea pitch mentions that the Slipstream problems begin after 17 seconds. So, uh, how about this- why not only use it for 16 seconds at a time? Hell, give yourself a buffer and round that down to 15 seconds? If it is that much faster than warp drive, even using it in short bursts a few times a day (with perhaps some warp drive usage in between as a cooldown?) would result in a significant reduction to their transit time home- and perhaps give them time to work out the kinks.

    Ok, Harry points out the crystal decay rate is a factor here. Still, it seems like a valid option if the decay rate is constant independent of usage...

    "We could find another way home- we've waited this long."
    "Long enough. We've waited long enough."

    So, this alternate timeline 15 years in the future basically amounts to "Harry Kim Killed Everybody."

    Rare mention of the Beta Quadrant- interesting that they found the wreckage of a Borg cube there- the Collective would have had to travel through either Alpha or Gamma Quadrants to get there.

    "And who knows? Maybe we'll meet some day.” Nope.

    [​IMG]

    Ok, I know there could be some forced perspective here but... there's no way the Delta Flyer as presented in this shot actually fits inside Voyager. Nice fake out with the Galaxy-class shot, ha- I was all "And yet, in this shot, the Delta Flyer definitely looks like it could fit inside Voya...ohhh"

    [​IMG]

    Captain LaForge and the USS Challenger. Nice. Is it me, or does LaForge manage to do a Picard maneuver for dramatic emphasis without standing up during the "So..." line?

    [​IMG]

    The Voyager crash sequence has got to be one of the more expensive one-off FX shots they've had to do...

    "Can you eject the core?"
    "No- emergency systems are off line."
    OF COURSE THEY ARE.

    The brief use of the slipstream drive shaved 10 years off their journey- which should put them at around 24 years down from the original (75). Dismantling the drive seems like an extreme step when these crystals are supposedly decaying- again, shaving even a couple more years off in a few 15 second bursts is still an option.

    Seems strange that Janeway has to do the whole “We know it was you because we found a code in the data" bit when she could have easily said “We know it was you because you sent this video log". A shame Harry couldn't throw in a "BTW, Chakotay needs to find a gal named Tess" and at least, ya know, help a brother out.

    So, really good episode (though it does suffer from a small, but justifiable in this context, case of Alpha Quadrant syndrome) and, since it is key to a few tech details and significant reduction of Voyager’s journey, I'll go with Definitely Essential. Though I have to say, this episode seems very similar to Endgame...

    [face_thinking]

    Trivia: This was Voyager's 100th episode. The opening celebration given a real-world parallel for reaching that milestone. Their goal was to not have this be a two-parter. They wanted a standalone episode ala City on the Edge of Forever. Wang and some others had hoped it might be expanded out to a two-parter at some point (with scenes like the medal ceremony with Chakotay's speech and the stealing of the Delta Flyer being points that could be expanded upon) though those hopes never materialized.

    The story concept began with the visual idea of Voyager under ice. The original concept for the frozen Voyager was for it to be under tens of meters of ice- but this proved difficult to visualize as the ship wouldn't be visible at that depth. After Braga nixed alternate suggestions of Voyager sticking out of the glacier partway, they managed to pull off the shot by making the ice more like water.

    They aimed to avoid the typical time travel cliches by not having anyone actually travel through time. They also aimed to have no dialogue in the teaser, and came close to achieving that.

    The USS Challenger was an homage to the space shuttle of the same name and was given a similar registry number (NCC-71099 vs OV-099). It is the first appearance of a Galaxy-class on the series. This is first episode LeVar Burton directed in which he also appears since Pegasus. The idea of his cameo came up right before they were about to start shooting. Geordi's uniform is the First Contact style uniform but bears the All Good Things/Visitor combadge variant.

    Future Kim's personality was based on his portrayal in The Killing Game, which elevated his presence here in a milestone episode- much to the surprise of Jo Menosky: "If someone would have said to me, 'The hundredth episode, next season, is going to feature Garrett [Wang] and Ensign Kim,' I just would have laughed," Menosky speculated. "It was just inconceivable.”. Braga suggested Mel Gibson's character in the original Lethal Weapon as a point of reference for future Kim.

    This is the 8th chance for Voyager to return home after Caretaker, the 6th time Janeway dies and the 3rd time Harry dies.



    DS9 710: It's Only a Paper Moon
    -Premise: After being disabled on AR-558, Nog returns to Deep Space 9, but finds he cannot go on living his uncertain life and seeks shelter within the fictional world of Vic Fontaine and Las Vegas, 1962.

    [​IMG]

    -T2Q Comments: Wow, angry, sleep-deprived Jake Sisko actually sounds like Ben Sisko...

    Seems to me there has to be options between "playing stereo loud" and "use a holosuite". Surely there's some form of headphones that would work, particularly for a species with great hearing.

    One thing to take away from all of this: apparently no one likes Julian's holoprograms.

    This is another one of those episodes that there's not much to say other than it's quite good and keeps your attention the entire time. Star Trek PTSD in a way, and an effective use of the Vic Fontaine character. I feel this is an important character episode for Nog even if it is technically skippable. It would normally be "good episode But Not Necessarily Essential" but I'm going to give it the upgrade to "Definitely Essential”.

    Trivia: The earliest version of the story concept was from an earlier season and involved Quark's as the setting but was shelved until the Vic character was introduced. The original version of this story pitch involved three stories set in Vic's and did not include the Nog storyline as one of them. Once it was introduced, its dominance resulted in the other stories being removed. In the end they ended up with an episode focusing on two guest stars without setting out to do so.

    One of the characters in The Searchers (a film cited by Nog as better than the John Wayne movie he was currently watching) is portrayed by the actor who played Captain Pike in TOS: The Cage, Jeffrey Hunter.

    Though there are competing theories, Star Trek Insurrection is believed to have potentially occurred during this episode due to Worf's appearance at the beginning, the long span of time of events within this episode and Worf's lack of appearance in the next two episodes combining for a plausible span of time in which he could be away from the station to participate in the events and backstory of Insurrection.


    Alternate Universe Log:

    -TOS: The Alternative Factor (Anti-Matter Universe)
    -TOS: Mirror, Mirror (Mirror Universe)
    -TOS: The Tholian Web (Mirror Universe & "Solo-Kirk" Universe)
    -TNG: We'll Always Have Paris (Simultaneous Continuum universes, "Manheim Dimension")
    -TNG: Yesterday's Enterprise (Federation-Klingon War universe)
    -TNG: Remember Me (Beverly Crusher-created Warp Bubble Reality)
    -TNG: Cause and Effect (failed timeloop occurances)
    -TNG: Timescape (aliens from alternate timeline, alternate outcome of Enterise's destruction)
    -TNG: Parallels ("Original" universe, "Surprise Party w/Chocolate Cake" universe, "Surprise Party w/Yellow Cake" universe, "9th place Concussion" universe, "Blue Dress/Moved Battle Painting" universe, "Blue Uniform/Moved Starship Painting"; "Married w/no kids" universe, "First Officer Worf/Married with Children" universe; "Borg-Controlled" universe, "Altered Original" universe)
    -DS9: Crossover (Mirror Universe)
    -TNG: All Good Things... (alternate 3.5 Billion Years Ago, alternate 2364, alternate-2370 & alternate 2395)
    -DS9: Past Tense, Parts I & II (Alternate Federationless 2371)
    -DS9: Visionary (Alternate 2371 outcomes including the destruction of DS9; resulting from Miles' timeflashes)
    -DS9: Through the Looking Glass (Mirror Universe)
    -VOY: Emanations (Vhnori dimension)
    -ST7: Generations (alternate "Destructon of Veridian III" timeline)
    -VOY: Non Sequitur (alternate Kim Earth)
    -DS9: The Visitor (alternate death-of-Sisko timeline)
    -DS9: Shattered Mirror (Mirror Universe)
    -VOY: Future's End, Part I (Alternate 29th Century)
    -VOY: Before and After (Alternate 2369, 2370, 2371, 2374, 2378 & 2379)
    -DS9: DS9: Children of Time (alternate 2173 through 2373 for energy barrier-encased planet)
    -VOY: Year of Hell, Parts I & II (Alternate 2374s)
    -DS9: Resurrection (Mirror Universe)
    -VOY: Timeless (Alternate 2375 "original crash" & "repeat crash" timelines, Alternate 2390)



    Up Next: Star Trek IX: Insurrection (Or: Let's Kill Us a Franchise!)



    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  9. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I actually kind of love Ezri's really condescending line to Vic in the Paper Moon episode where she goes "I'm a councilor, you're a hologram!"
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
  10. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004
    I liked Ezri because she was slightly neurotic, but I was always sort of disappointed that they cast a woman. I always sort of wanted Ezra to be a man. It would hav created an interesting dynamic with Worf in the context of his relationship with Jadzia and they would have been able to subtly slide a recurring transgendered character into Star Trek.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
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  11. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Yah they definitely kinda cheated with just going with "cute brunette!" again but honestly, I love DeBoer in the role so much that I can let it slide. Which is odd cuz a lot of people just straight up hated her but I just love her line deliveries in even random moments.

    In my head if I had time travelling show-running powers, I think there should have been 3 different hosts over the course of 7 seasons. Maybe 4 (it is a war, someone bites it) just to get the full aspect of the Trill character.

    Not the biggest fan of DS9's Covenant episode. Any more Dukat is always welcome but I don't quite where it leads the character into the series finale.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018
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  12. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Well we did have both Jadzia and Ezri tell lots of stories about all the prior hosts in the Dax lineage, and there was that one episode where we learn that one of the previous Dax hosts was an extra creepy serial killer, but I like the idea that symbiotic doesn’t necessarily wait for the host to die before moving on to the next host.
     
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  13. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 9, 2007
    I'm always amazed at how far they took Nog's character, from the "Ferengi kid" who Jake befriended due to there not being many other kids on a frontier station to career Starfleet officer. And I love the idea of Nog trading for things in Starfleet, well, you'd think that's normally how things would operate in most large organizations (a favor for a favor) but his Ferengi culture/personality/values fits into that role so well. Then Nog is the shellshocked veteran. And its one of the few times Ezri acts as counselor. In some ways I like Ezri more than Jadzia, or at least on Klingon matters since she's more objective, but that's not for another few episodes.

    And I just liked seeing "nice" Weyoun, though that's an interesting idea, a clone just randomly turning out differently (especially with how advanced Dominion genetic engineering is), and how close to the line Damar and the next Weyoun were cutting it. Techncially Odo isn't a Founder, but they both know they're dead if anyone else finds out about them attacking Odo.

    Ah, Worf always gets the best lines.

    Its crazy that Voyager's 100th episode actually stars Harry Kim. Although Chakotay doesn't do much, but at least it gave Harry something to do, and he carries the episode. Even though the eventual finale is stupid, Voyager's 100th was probably one of their best. They actually get to use some of the tech they picked up along the way! Although its a bit silly that its not until they're literally about to push the ignition button that Paris finds critical problems. And even if they had to keep growing crystals from scratch, they could have gotten home in a few years, given an hour of quantum slipstream nearly put them back in the Alpha Quadrant. But then that would undermine the whole series. Or maybe they don't have the resources for that, but resources stopped mattering on Voyager 10 shuttles ago.
     
  14. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I'm enjoying Ezri's differences from Jadzia. I suspect at least part of the problem is that she only had one season to develop (same reason why I would have to disagree about having 3 or 4 hosts over the course of the series as they would all get shortchanged on development and you'd have some kind of repeating pattern of deaths and introductions, not to mention turning the character into Star Trek Kenny).

    If they had been able to plan around it, killing off Jadzia early in Season 6 and introducing Ezri around there (after the war arc and wedding) would have worked better. The building Season 6 plots could carry the Ezri intro development storylines and then leave Season 7 for her to be more fully explored as a character better integrated into the crew.

    Absolutely! The other night, a friend whom I've been (very slowly) marathoning through Trek over the past decade (we only get to hang out a couple times a year, so even though the episode viewing list has been carefully cultivated, it still has taken a very long time) commented as we were watching DS9 (we just finished The Jem'Hadar) about how annoying Nog was and I couldn't help but think to myself that it'll be interesting to see how surprised she'll be at his development over the seasons.

    His speech about his father and why he wanted to join Starfleet is one of the better moments in the series.



    There's two comments under that video that stand out as good observations: "Nog was Wesley Crusher done right." & "By time voyager made it back, Nog outranks Harry Kim."

    [face_laugh]
     
  15. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004
    I don’t know as I’d call Nog Wesley done right, as Nog and Wesley are very, very different characters, but there was certainly much consistent follow through with Nog and as well as more and better character development.
     
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  16. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Yeah, they're different characters but I think they refer to the follow-through of the "annoying kid to Starfleet cadet/officer" arc comparison.
     
  17. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Time-Traveling F&G Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Re: Jadzia: IIRC everything at the time, they were negotiating with Terry Farrell on contract renewal pretty deeply into Season 6, so by the time it was finally determined she wasn't returning, there was likely just barely enough time to do here death and hadn't been able to put out a casting call for a new Dax at that point.
     
  18. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Heads-up: This is going to be a long commentary/review of Star Trek Insurrection. I'm breaking it into four posts to make it slightly easier to navigate:
    -First the review
    -Then Deleted Scenes pt1
    -Deleted Scenes pt 2 [due to embed media limits] and Trivia
    -and, lastly, my concluding thoughts on how to fix the film/overall review

    What? Insurrection? QUEST SMASH!
    [​IMG]

    Before we even get to the movie proper, let's recap where we really are in this franchise at this point in time.

    It's 1998. 2 years after First Contact, a film that was a major mainstream hit for the series, was released. Voyager is riding high off of the introduction of Seven of Nine, the Borg and several notable action/adventure-heavy two-part episodes, effectively taking advantage of First Contact's success while its directionless final season is still off in the future. Deep Space Nine is in the middle of the acclaimed Dominion War story arc- the largest scale, and longest format, event in franchise history.

    The Star Trek franchise is at an all-time high. We're still half a year away from the return of the Star Wars Saga to cinemas with new installments. The hype for The Phantom Menace (and sci-fi in general) is building- something that this new Trek film could have easily taken advantage of.



    The first teaser trailer is extremely promising, teasing a story of consequence and conflict between the crew and the Federation (though no specific signs of connections to the Dominion War). It's honestly one of my favorite Trek trailers of all time (It even remembers that the Enterprise-E can fire quantum torpedoes! ;)). My top pick is a coin toss between this teaser and the teaser for First Contact, as both are just fantastic uses of trailer setup narration and iconography.



    Then the full trailer came out...less exciting, a little clunkier and conveying lower stakes but a closer focus on the moral debate at the (apparent) center of the film. The absence of Federation craft in the conflict is suspicious but we're not too far off the mark. Not really feeling a lot of hype for the movie now, but it could still be good...

    Domestic Poster:
    [​IMG]

    International Poster:
    [​IMG]

    Star Trek IX: Insurrection (Or: Let's Kill Us a Franchise!)

    -Premise: As the Dominion War ravages the Alpha Quadrant, an idyllic planet in the middle of an unstable region within Federation space serves as home to the peaceful Ba'ku – and a veritable fountain of youth. When the Son'a and the war-torn Federation plan to exploit the planet in order to rejuvenate themselves, Captain Jean-Luc Picard and the crew of the Starship Enterprise-E must rebel against the Federation in order to save the Ba'ku and expose the atrocities that are about to take place.

    T2Q Comments: The opening music isn't particularly compelling or memorable, but is mildly soothing- though the tranquil images of Generic Agrarian Village #1138 do start to put you to sleep. However, that does make the shift to the more ominous observation vantage point pretty effective. In general, this opening sequence is perfectly fine (though one must believe that the outpost is fortunate that a bird never flew into it or that no local ever decided to go up there or throw a rock or something...).



    And now the Enterprise-E. Gorgeous shot of a gorgeous ship. The ridges on the underside of the E feel more pronounced here than they did in First Contact.

    One of the few (dismissive) nods to the events threatening the rest of the Alpha Quadrant when Riker mentions the Diplomatic Corps is busy with "Dominion negotiations" (the Dominion don't seem particularly interested in negotiations at this point...) and that the Enterprise has been putting out "brush fires". They go on to mention that the Federation has lost a lot to the Borg and Dominion and is in more desperate need of allies so as to bring in low-tech civilizations as protectorates. It seems to me that a recently warp-capable society wouldn't be of much use in a war with Federation/Dominion-level tech in play and would be more of a liability to defend than leave alone for now but I digress...

    Picard does have a great line here, though- "Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"

    "Mr. Worf! What the hell are you doing here?"
    "We couldn't come up with a good reason so just go with it."

    (Ok, maybe that's not EXACTLY how that scene goes, but its pretty much an accurate read of how unbelievably lazy they were here)

    I do like the small touch of having even the ship violinist smirking at Picard's ceremonial headgear. A mention that Data didn't bring his emotion chip with him- but wasn't the whole point of Generations that he couldn't remove it? This seems to not only undermine the entire point of Data's development in Generations but revert the character for no other reason than to support the subplot with the boy later on.

    The entrance into the Briar Patch is a pretty cool shot, I must admit. For all it's shortcomings, the film did have a beautiful setting.

    "The Son'a have been known to produce mass quantities of the narcotic, Ketrisol White." Uh, so maybe that should be a red flag?

    [​IMG]

    And so begins the awkward Riker/Troi romance reversion. Geordi back on the bridge... in the seat he used to have in Season 1. I guess they couldn't afford another new cast member to fill Lt. Hawk's position?

    Calling for Son'a reinforcements? Not Federation?

    [​IMG]

    The Federation scoutship is an interesting design- it almost feels like a shuttle relative to the Defiant's line of designs. I don't mind the silliness of the singing sequence but the spinning camera inside the cockpit actually does feel really cheap...

    These people are special because they can hacky the hell out of many sacks. Picard introduces Crusher and Troi yet Troi acknowledges first then Crusher...

    "I've never kissed you with a beard before." False! Ok, well, it was Thomas Riker but, still, same thing. Let's not split beard hairs, afterall.

    Hearing Picard ask "What's the last thing you remember?" brings an instant flash of Xavier asking the same thing in Days of Future Past (or at least its trailer). The subtle music here actually does add a layer of mystery and ominousness to the investigation here, foreshadowing the reveal of something bad ahead- but it's an element I do like- I kinda wish they could have played that up more.

    Riker! No! Don't shave the beard! Your sub-franchise only got good when you grew it! Without it, you will lose all your power! Like Chuck Norris! Or Santa Claus! Talk about stacking the deck against yourself...

    [​IMG]

    Data's little moment with the fish is a touch I like. I know it would have been beyond their budget, but i kinda feel like a slower, more dramatic reveal of the cloaked craft as the water drains would have been much more effective. The holoship generally makes sense (Picard and crew did it via the Enterprise's holodeck for Worf's brother's plan way back when, so it tracks that Picard would recognize its purpose so quickly) but I would wonder why it would be left running the program if it was incomplete and basically just being watched over by a single guard until Picard left. Power waste, etc.

    [​IMG]

    Klingon pimple joke. The character degradation begins. The "smooth as an android's bottom" moment is amusing, however. The mambo moment is so random...

    It's odd for Picard to be referring to Earth history as separate from the Baku's... as the Baku aren't just ridge-nose human-like, they are super-absolutely-human-like, to the point that they just have to be an offshoot of early Federation colonization.

    The female lead... I don't think it’s the fault of the actress playing Anij necessarily (it could just be the direction) but the character is played so laid back and calm, even in moments of levity and laughter, that that you really start to doze off. To their credit, at least they didn't cast a love interest ridiculously younger than Picard (the actress is still a little under 20 years younger than Stewart, but at least she comes across as middle-aged). One just can't help but think how much better this would have been had it been Crusher (who is only 9 years younger)- her speculation on the medical/scientific aspects of what is happening on the planet, if mixed with Picard's philosophical musings, would have permitted the same types of scenes to play out but with much more emotional weight- plus it wouldn't have sidelined Beverly.

    The Geordi/sunrise moment is truly one of the undeniable highlights of the film... and, again, it ends up being a missed opportunity for it not to be a point where Picard could more heavily weigh the pros of the Baku relocation if healing on this caliber was possible as a result. Though a more spectacular sunrise shot would have also been welcomed.

    Ru'afo, a supposed "ally", jumps from "release my men" to "destroy your ship" on a dime after an emotional outbursts so strong it makes him literally bleed.

    [​IMG]

    They mention warp drive turned a couple of Romulan thugs into an empire... but, as a splinter race from Vulcan, wouldn't they have already had warp drive long before they became Romulan?

    The Admiral at least brings up the Geordi angle briefly, though it doesn't seem to sway Picard or instill in him much reluctance. The nature of this film as basically a low-energy 2-part episode is really felt as we basically hit the midway point with Picard taking off his pips following the "by time you file a complaint it'll be too late" near-cliffhanger moment, which does feel right out of a mid-level (or lower) cliffhanger on TNG.

    The plastic surgery obsession angle to the Son'a always seemed off to me- i get that it ties into the obsession of youth theme but on a practical level, it’s not what they're dying from. I almost feel like the Vidiians would have somehow been a nice fit here- high technology, medically-focused, easily served as villains and provide a tie to Voyager (one that wouldn't interfere with the show since they had moved past them already, yet Voyager's intel on them delivered via Message in a Bottle would provide a strong positive effect from Voyager's travels- and you could even work in another Picardo cameo)- one would just need a reason for how some of them could have reached the Alpha Quadrant (perhaps via a route/means Voyager was unwilling to take due to moral objections the Vidiians did not share).

    Such a direction might lose the personal revenge angle of the Son'a from the Baku but that would only reinforce the "outside culture forcing relocation of another" analogy- though you could preserve that by making that particular character (or two) a Son'a who works with the Vidiians or something. Or, hell, just use the Romulans properly as shady allies.

    The "saddle up, lock and load" line... I wonder if that might be a throwback connection to A Fistful of Datas? I kinda wish there was something earlier in the film that that line could have had even more payoff to. It's nice to finally see a Captain's Yacht (or other built-in, deployable craft ala the Aeroshuttle) be used for once after the absent use of the Galaxy-class's yacht due to budget limitations.

    It's kind of ironic that this film has a line of refugees from a village traveling to a refuge given that the film the next sequel would be suicided against, The Two Towers, also featured such a sequence.

    While I do kinda like the exchange between Data and the kid... all of his comments are an almost constant flow of cliched child dialogue. You don't get much sense of him as a person- just a kid complaining about grown-ups. And some of the line deliveries (like "You gotta learn how to play") are eerily similar to Anakin in TPM. The 90's, amiright?

    Worf having long hair doesn't really seem out of place...

    "How are you doing this?"
    "No more questions."
    Well, **** you, too, plot.

    And then the infamous boobs comment. Because they couldn't think of anything better to do with Crusher or Troi. Man, I feel so sorry for Gates.

    The transporter tag drones are a pretty cool idea- one might think that this would be an effective weapon against the Borg to attack multiple targets simultaneously before they could adapt. But then the Borg would probably just assimilate them and use them to inject people with nanoprobes so... maybe not...

    Worf's "aggressive tendencies" line is fun, but it makes one wonder what that drone was planning to do by trying to kamikaze Worf (the only officer with a non-functioning weapon and, thus, not a high threat at range).

    The bombing run of the surface suddenly makes me realize what the Son'a ships reminded me of- Deathgliders and Alkesh from Stargate SG-1. Their larger craft also have a touch of the Ori in their designs as well (though obviously this predates the Ori by quite some time).

    "The purpose being?"
    "The purpose being, I intend to ram it down the Sona's throats."
    (female helmsman gives Riker a glance and a smile)
    Oh, she totally wants to **** Riker. There's no way that's not happening before Troi gets back. Blame it on the effects of the radiation.

    Naming it the Riker Maneuver upfront seems a little too...wrong. And then we have the Enterprise manual control like we saw in season 3's Booby Trap... oh, no, wait, scratch that. It's a Microsoft flightstick rising up from the floor on a cheap-looking podium.

    [​IMG]

    WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU MAKE SOMEONE STAND UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROOM TO USE MANUAL CONTROL?!!?!?

    And what happens if the manual control podium riser mechanism stops working? Do they lay down and crawl on the floor while sticking their arm into the hole to reach the flightstick? It's already kinda awkward enough to make someone as tall as Riker hunch over it to use it.

    [​IMG]

    As much as I love the idea of using the ram scoops in any overt manner (and especially in a tactical manner), it's just such a tensionless sequence.

    Oh god, the kid running back cliche, UGH...

    Very bumpy aerial camera shot here... I wonder if it was windy or what.

    The delivery of the line "In six hours every living thing in this system will be dead or dying" was much more powerful in the teaser trailer because of the extra editorial pause added between "will be dead" and "or dying".

    The face stretching effect looks terrible- because they stretched the eyes too, it's so very face-mapped cartoonishness in nature. A shame about the Admiral’s death, as I did like Dougherty- he's not your typical evil/mad Admiral and he, generally, had a reasonable position to argue for or against which was a complexity I appreciated.

    [​IMG]

    I feel they could have more easily masked the transporter trick- it tips its hand too far in advance for the twist to have any impact.

    "We were transported to the holoship when we reset our shield. Everything we saw was an illusion!"
    Well thanks for spelling that out for us, Admiral Obvious. P.S.- Please promote Mr. Olie. He's really good at his job.

    [​IMG]

    Ru’affo's high-pitched scream/wail is laughable. he sounds like a Ferengi. What makes it so much worse is that he had an awesome scream in the trailer- why in the hell did they change it?


    [​IMG]

    And now we hit the moment of an unbelievably stupid set design decision (or a true exposure of budgetary cuts): the interior of the collector which has a backdrop that appears to be one, giant bluescreen. Without any effects composited onto it. It literally looks like the behind the scenes footage off a DVD. Even in theaters, I remember hearing people in the audience being thoroughly confused (even being only about a year or so after the launch of the DVD format, people were still aware enough of what behind the scenes footage looked like). It just looks so awful.

    I mean, it's not like they had to avoid a generic space background or even explain warp engine blue glow- they had both the lovely Briar Patch nebulas and the Ba’ku planetary rings available to use as a diverse, visual backdrop for this showdown (not to mention the craft of the later space battle) on a non-warp-capable craft.

    I'm surprised a fan edit hasn't already done that very thing since the bluescreen is so clear cut. I mean, seriously, what the hell? Here are some brief Photoshop examples I did myself just to prove the concept:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I mean, I know I’m biased here, but that's not only much better. It's waaay better. It looks really damn cool!!

    "He wouldn't!"
    "Yes, he would."
    Best line of the movie. Kinda wish it was in Nemesis instead- I'd have even less reason to watch this movie again.

    And, again, very little tension in the rescue and final kaboom, sadly. Picard mentions perilous times for the Federation and that he can't abandon it- yet I guess he's fine being on the sidelines of the whole conflict.

    The music during the end credits seems stronger than the opening credits... the harp comes across stronger and adds to the more serene feeling. At times there's almost a few bars that remind me of the quieter piano moments of Jurassic Park.

    So, yeah...outside of maybe 3 or 4 small character moments this film was a pretty massive, unmitigated disaster... it's just a mess of wasted opportunities across the board, end-to-end. It was the point where the franchise killed itself, despite being only a year or two removed from all time highs of success and popularity. But we'll get into that more in a bit.

    Overall, I really can't decided which movie is the worst Star Trek film- this movie or The Final Frontier. Both are very generic films with insulting character moments mixed in with at least one or two memorable, positive character moments. Insurrection is more watchable than TFF- it at least feels complete. At the same time, Insurrection's failures on a larger scale are amplified given its key placement within Trek franchise history. Ultimately, I'll give Insurrection a slight edge in ranking above TFF. It's a total misfire and ultimately tanked the Trek franchise for a decade, but it's a watchable misfire.

    Before we go into it's failures for the franchise, first we have deleted scenes and, then, trivia!
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
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  19. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Deleted Scenes, Part 1:

    Working Lunch:

    I can see why this was deleted, though I do like that it sets up an early additional question over the Admiral's motivation/claims. The pile of datapads being set up here do have a payoff during the pip removal scene, IIRC.

    Facelift:

    Extra shots of the plastic surgery of the Son'a, the rest of the scene is intact. No loss here.

    Extended Library/Flirting:

    This scene is actually kinda funny now- and the playfulness between Troi and Riker builds instead of her affections coming out of nowhere, as in the final cut. The added exposition on the Son'a also enhances their motivation (so their race doesn't die out). I can see why it cold be cut back but I honestly would have kept it in- I feel like they left the worst part of the scene in the final film. Trivia note: the Trill is played by Rom's actor.
     
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  20. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Deleted Scenes, Part 2
    Slow-Motion Kissing:


    Definitely no loss here.

    Data Out:

    It did seem odd that, with the ship damaged, his atmo reentry would have worked out. This seems much more realistic as an outcome so, while not necessary, I think it adds a nice touch to things.

    Disabling the Collector:

    Alternate arrangement of events here- the dialogue about the Federation halting the relocation was moved later on in the film after the fight aboard the Collector. However, I do like Picard's angry line here.

    Alternate Ending:

    Changed because it was felt to be too soft of an ending. I actually kinda like this- it makes Picard less murderous.

    There was also a deleted scene of Quark vacationing on Ba'ku, but no footage is available of that one.

    [​IMG]

    Trivia:
    The game Star Trek Armada depicts a later attempt by other Son'a forces to retake Ba'ku, but is repelled by a Federation Starbase established above the planet.

    An early version of the screenplay was called "Stardust" and was based on "Heart of Darkness", with Picard having to travel "up river" to find a former Academy classmate of his, Duffy, who is attacking Romulans. They would age younger the closer they got to the Fountain of Youth. You would have seen young Picard at the Academy, as well as Boothby.

    A subsequent draft swapped in Data for Duffy. Picard would fight and "kill" Data midway through the film, only to reactivate him to stop an alliance between the Federation and Romulans. This draft was dropped for being "too political".

    After Stewart expressed interest in three things for the next film (a lighter tone than First Contact, a romance plot for Picard and Picard being involved in the action), Piller was able to rewrite the story to resemble the final film (only the Ba'ku were all children). After some intervention by Behr, the Ba'ku were made adults, the Son'a were made more threatening and Anij was introduced as a love interest. Titles considered included "Prime Directive" and "Nemesis" before settling on "Insurrection" (despite a studio executive objecting to it, claiming to not know what the word "insurrection" meant).

    Piller felt some of what he had hoped to accomplish didn't happen with the film. Frakes felt the script was weak. He also tried to add dialogue that acknowledged the impact of Jadzia's death on Worf but was overruled by Berman.

    The actor who played Dougherty originally auditioned for the part of Ru'afo. Trek novels have connected him to Section 31. F. Murray Abraham claimed he would have done only Star Trek movies for the rest of his career, given the chance. Brent Spiner filmed scenes of Data walking into the lake but only the stuntman's take was used in the movie.

    With ILM busy with The Phantom Menace, two other studios were used for the FX for the first time on a Trek film since Star Trek V. It was also the first Trek film with all digital FX (except for some model work used in the collector's destruction). Despite the cheap look, Insurrection had the most sets of a Trek film at a count of 55. Many pieces of the Son'a sets were later repurposed for use on Sulliban ships on Enterprise. Minor changes to the Enterprise-E's bridge include replacing the holographic viewscreen from First Contact with a traditional one. (You know, I never realized the FC viewscreen was holographic until now!)

    This is the only Trek film (prior to Star Trek Beyond) to not have any scenes on or near Earth. It is also the only Trek film with no stardate reference and only one of two (alongside Into Darkness) with no Captain's log entry. Additionally, it is the shortest Trek film, beating Star Trek III by 2 minutes. This is the last Trek film to have opening cast & crew credits. This was the only Star Trek film Gene Siskel ever enjoyed (Ebert didn't like it).
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
  21. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Final Thoughts: Can the Movie Be Fixed?

    And now I turn to final thoughts on the failures of this film within the franchise and how it could have served the franchise while still being a better film in the tone they were aiming for. There is no Quest's Qut to be made here- you can't salvage the film through editing or even adding hypothetical new content. You could save the overall arc of the story but for everything else you'd really have to start from scratch.

    Basically things break down this way: for a film in Insurrection's unique position, with a lot of goodwill to capitalize on and carry forward, it can take several directions (or mix and match). Working our way down from the higher layers o the base ones:

    1) Tell a story that serves the overall franchise.
    This could take many forms- such as (but not limited to) something directly connected to the Dominion War and Deep Space Nine or even to Voyager (perhaps via Q, allowing the story to span two crews on different ends of the galaxy).

    2) Tell a story that serves the film franchise.
    This would mean drawing upon the past two films in some manner to connect them together as part of a trilogy (loose or otherwise), ala Star Trek II, III & IV. One example is the premise to the novel "Engines of Destiny", which has Scotty use time travel to save Kirk- but by preventing him from going into the Nexus, he wasn't there to help Picard stop Soran, which meant Picard wasn't there to stop the Borg in First Contact. They don't have to go in such a dark direction (and reusing time travel immediately after FC would have been a poor idea), but it's one example of how things could be tie together on a consequence level.

    3) Tell a story that serves the series franchise.
    This would be something drawing heavily upon TNG's history as the basis for their plot (or character subplots) to continue from, as both Generations & First Contact did.

    4) Tell a completely stand-alone story.
    This is primarily the direction they chose, but it carelessly tosses aside many advantages that the film could have otherwise drawn upon and is, generally speaking, an extremely poor decision from the perspective of wanting to perpetuate the franchise as a whole.

    And from there, options begin to degrade in terms of at least delivering good character development or action sequences to be enjoyed on a base level by audiences and general expectations following First Contact. But Insurrection just tumbles down that ladder:

    -Even if Insurrection didn't service the franchise by tying into DS9 or VOY, it still failed to formulate a cohesive movie series.

    -Even if it didn't formulate a cohesive movie series, it still failed to tell an interesting standalone story/movie.

    -Even if it failed to tell an interesting standalone story/movie, it still failed to follow the expectations of general audiences following First Contact.

    -Even if it failed to follow the expectations of general audiences following First Contact, it still failed to develop the characters and their relationships*.

    -Even if it failed to develop the characters and their relationships, it still failed to deliver good action sequences.

    *Slight exception to Geordi (but that's mostly a single, passing scene) and Riker/Troi (which was a 180 out-of-nowhere reversal).


    Now, this isn't to say they'd have to make a film inaccessible to audience members who haven't ben watching the Tv shows. There are many ways of telling a standalone story set against a greater backdrop that do not require a massive info dump yet can still remain relevant to that backdrop (see most films set during World War II, for example).

    And, heck, that's even ignoring the fact that Star Trek has built-in mechanisms literally built for info dumps: the Captain's Log entries that open almost every story or cover sudden revelations.

    "Captain's Log, Stardate 52364.3: The Enterprise is approaching a Starfleet observation post in in orbit over Ba'ku- a planet in a region of space known as the Briar Patch, where it is feared the ongoing conflict with the Dominion may threaten its borders and spread over into the system.

    Our orders are to assist Admiral Dougherty in overseeing the final stages of the outpost's decommissioning and relieve his ship's escort, the USS Defiant, so that she may return to the front lines- but hopefully not before I can spend a few minutes with the Defiant's Commander over a glass... of prune juice."

    Here you either make the Son'a Changelings or newly joined allies of the Dominion (overtly identified as such- let Jem'Hadar ships arrive as their backup instead of Son'a ships) or (my earlier suggestion of Vidiians or Romulans). Then add a couple smaller Federation Starships** supporting Dougherty against the Enterprise (so that there's someone for them to actually rebel against later on) and drop the references to boobs and Klingon zits and, boom! You've just improved that film by about 30% (drop the manual control flightstick and you've improved it by about 50%) and have put us on the path towards getting a decent movie, like the one that was advertised in the teaser trailer.

    Want to improve it further? Swap in Beverly/Picard in place of Picard/Anij and drop the unnecessary Troi/Riker rekindling forced into the story. Have the Son'a frame Picard to trick the Federation ships into going after him (and the Enterprise), etc.

    *Don't want an overt Dominion connection? Ok, how about this? The Son'a (former victims of Dominion invasion/attack) and Dougherty believe it is inevitable that the Dominion (perhaps via the Cardassians if you must) will soon take the Briar Patch and the Federation does not have the resources available to defend it.

    And, yet, the Federation does not want the Dominion to gain access to the Ba'ku's immortality secrets- and the Son'a will not permit it at any cost. So, their solution? Relocate the natives and raze the planet to deny it's secrets to both sides. And if they don't want to leave? The Son'a don't care. That regulates the Dominion to being an off-screen motivation for the on-screen characters/races.

    **Or even, if you want some overt fan service to sell the movie on, use a single Galaxy-class, allowing audiences to see the “new Enterprise” face off against "the old Enterprise" indirectly (it’s something the franchise had tried to do on a couple occasions before, so they’d finally get their shot). Want another fun nod? Make that Galaxy-class the USS Challenger and establish an early history with Geordi here to foreshadow his probable future captaincy of it.

    Anyways, pretty much all of those possibilities allow almost all of the major sequences and character beats to still take place, they're just in much stronger contexts to draw upon for their execution.

    And, yes, that’s all backseat fan fiction with the benefit of hindsight- but I stand by the notion that those were all perfectly valid possibilities that could (and should) have been explored at the time this film was being developed.

    I suspect their desire was, presumably, to get the film out before Star Wars returned and that ultimately forced them to move ahead with the film like it was just another episode being sacrificed by production. Only moving onto the next film after this would prove to be more difficult than a series moving onto the next episode.

    I wouldn’t blame the entire film on that- there were obviously many factors involved in the lack of a clear vision or story to take the film in. Michael Piller wrote a very interesting book titled “FADE IN: From Idea to Final Draft: The Writing of Star Trek Insurrection” which goes deep into that process that I recommend. Though I haven’t finished reading it yet, it certain adds more context and insight into what happened. It includes several “Oh, no, don’t choose that” moments that steered the film into what it became. Those moments make what the final result ended up being more understandable.
     
  22. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    Troi and bearded Will Riker kissed several times over the course of the series, including in Violations, Man of the People, and Menage a Troi. That's just off the top of my head. Frakes should have known better.

    Great idea. Would have loved this.

    Yeah, I've always found it genuinely moving. LeVar sold it well.
     
  23. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Remember when Star Trek got F. Murray ****ing Abraham and they still wound up making a crappy movie?

    I don't. You can't make me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
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  24. dp4m

    dp4m Mr. Bandwagon star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
    Spoiler alert:

    [​IMG]

    It was not the actress...

    PS - Nemesis is still worse than this and TFF.
     
  25. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    It's a race to the bottom, man, it's like "Do you want to lose a finger, an ear, or a toe?" and meanwhile the perfectly fine "Lose no body parts and have a $20 meal on us" of better Trek movies is right there on the table to remind you that you ****ed up.