***Traitor discussion thread*** (warning!!! major spoilers)

[face_shocked]

 

I saw that picture the other day when I was up at Barnes and Noble. Her face is pretty close as to how I imagined, but I thought her body would be more like a birds, instead of human. They also didn't take into account that she has two opposable fingers.

 

I thought she'd be....less evil looking.

Isnt her face supposed to be kinda flat?

weird- I dont like it. I didnt expect her to be "hot" but she just looks plain creepy!!!!

 

Did anyone see the movie Mortal Combat? if you did, do you remember that thing that turned into Reptile? Thats how i imagined her, but with feathers.

 

I dont remember the movie-

I keep trying to type out what I pictured before but its too hard to describe. the general shape isnt too far off, but her head was more.......decorative. feathers like a peacock...kinda, but small.

hard to explain-

she just looks evil. -now I think her intentions arent as honorable as before. weird how appearance changes stuff like that. Before i saw her as appearing almost harmless-physically. now she seems very threatening.

I mean, c'mon - would you hang out with her?

 

I definitly think that she should be much more avian or reptilian looking. If I remember right she is supposed to have digitigrade (bird-like) legs, and a much slenderer neck.

 

i always pictured vergere as a female "howard the duck" with some more color... haha

 

didnt they say somewhere in some of the books that she had backwards bending knees?

Its way different than i remember...

 

I recently checked out the literature thread & they have some pretty interesting discussions going on over there, in regards to TRAITOR & mostly- the "new" force teachings of Vergere. I would like to discuss this stuff here - partly because i dont want to "waste" my posts there when we're trying to boost our count & partly cause some of those people are just very....... difficult.

Currently under debate: The new definition of the force (no dark/no light), Vergeres intentions, the future of Lukes leadership, the parallels between the Solo twins & the twin Vong gods, and between Vergere & Obi-Wan, or Yoda, or even.... Darth Sidious.


any thoughts?

 

I'm trying my hardest not to look in this thread! I just bought the book, and from what I've read, (the prologue) this book sounds like the deepest Star Wars novel I've read so far. Vergere intruiges me, she can do things I thought couldn't be done. I can already tell this one's going to be awesome!


*SB*

 

Your right SB. and you will love the book after you finish it.

 

[face_shocked] Dude, what are you doing?


*SB*

 

Stealing your trademark

 

[face_shocked] All I can say is, Holy Force! Of course, that doesn't mean the same to me now as it did 2 days ago.

This book has made me think. About the NJO, Jacen, the Force, even about Anakin Skywalker. First off, Vergere is fricken awesome. She blows Yoda out of the water. What she says about the Jedi and the Force... Everything was muddled in my mind before this book. I had ideas about the Lightside/Darkside aspect of the Force, and ideas about the Jedi/Sith. However I wasn't ever certain. When Vergere said what she said about the Force, it clicked. It actually makes sense! I'm still a little confused about the 'everything is one' concept though.

Alright, I'm going to go off on a theory here. So there is no Dark Side, and the Jedi control limits power. The Darkness of Sith come from themselves, but they surrender themselves completely to the Force. So, does this mean the Sith aren't as evil as we'd like to think? The Jedi are playing it safe. True, their services are just, and in general, are for the good of the galaxy. But they are forbidding themselves from using more of this power and still using it for good. They are afraid that if they do, the true nature of themselves would prove to be evil, and they can't afford to take that chance. We know by now that Anakin Skywalker does not like limits, so it makes sense that he opens himself fully to the Force. But I think something more than his mother's death will put him over the edge, and thus enable him to use his powers for evil. Make sense? But then there is the question of; Did the Jedi open themselves fully to the Force? If any of them did, Yoda would be a likely candidate.


I have a lot more that I want to say, but it's all jumbled right now, and I'm afraid I would make less sense than that jumble I posted above. Enjoy!


*SB*

 

YES!!!!! so glad you finished! I was tempted to ask you about it before. I'm glad I waited.
The "no dark side" discussion is still raging in the literature forum. wow. some of those folks are really mad. Personally, I dont think this changes anything. It explains the force from a different "point of view".
"many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view" ----&---- "the truth is always greater than the words used to describe it"
Consider those 2 things & this book doesnt change anything but the "location" of the dark side. Its not "out there" seeking you out, tempting you, calling you to the dark side; Its in you. Its in everything.
"Anakin was seduced by the dark side of the force....". TRAITOR is saying that he was really seduced by his own dark emotions & by giving in to them, he gave in to "the dark side".
I think it makes alot more sense. Some of those Lit folks think this book ruins everything that Star Wars is, was & ever will be.
Yikes. I like it.

 

EXACTLY!!! Jeez, those wacky Lit folk, stay away from the AotC boards too, that place can get a little rough.

I agree with you 100%. It doesn't ruin Star Wars at all, it clarifys it, IMO. You're just looking at the Force from a different point of view. To me, it makes more sense when I look at it from this point of view.

So it didn't ruin Star Wars for me, it just made me think of it in a different way.

And what the heck is that pic of Vergere? That's not how I imagined she'd look at all! More like a small dog with a feline face, and little feather things sticking up. I didn't imagine her with clothes either. Huh. Maybe I'd feel inclined to draw her one day... How do you pronounce that anyway? The pic says Vur-jar, or something. I've always said Vur-jer-ie.


*SB*

 

Computers not only lead to the Dark Side, they ARE the Dark Side. They use frustration and anger to lure innocent people down the dark path. After reading Traitor, I'd started to come around to the new philosophy therein, but now... there is a Dark Side, and computers are at the heart of it.

I finally sat down last night after almost two weeks of procrastination and typed up some of my thoughts on Traitor. I discussed my feelings on the new point of view on the Force and the Dark Side, of the "everything is one" concept, and other stuff. It wasn't quite a dissertation, but I spent over half an hour typing up this post.

And then, when I went to post it... the computer tells me that the boards are down, and to try again later. I try to go back, to at least save, by cutting and pasting, what I'd written. But no, it wouldn't let me go back to what I'd written. It was lost... lost! <sob>

<sigh> From now on, I think I'll have to type everything in Word, saving the file at the end of every line or so, and then paste in. Can't be too paranoid. Oh, well, maybe I can retype my post tonight or something.

Alison

 

I have two monitors in my house, the reliable Jedi and the bad tempered Sith. We try the Sith for a couple of days but it everntually gives out one day when we try to turn it on, so we switch to a later monitor and all works fine. i believe that Gateway is the Master of the Sith, and trying to agrivate us all.

THe Force is totally changed in this book. It goes from having a good side and a bad side to having it mold to you, its kinda like having your personality control the force. What you think is bad and what you think is good are the outlines, but it changes with the person it is. The Dark Side is uncut, many people have different sides and meanings to "when a person goes over to the dark side." And thats the point that Vergere points out. There is no dark side and a lightside. The question pertains to real life: for example, Killing is bad, but in self defense it is ok, because your fending off an attacker. IT kinda pertains to that of the force: If you see someone attacking someone and your too far away to use your lightsaber, you just use a couple of force lightning on him to save another's life, is that bad? Thats the entire premice. Ok. im done.

Ohh, and SB. I think its Ver-je-re too

 

AB-that exact same thing happened to me before. I HATE THAT! I am intereseted to hear your thoughts so please try again.

SB- I agree on the pic. it actually made me question her motives. she just looks so creepy.

does anyone think she IS bad?

 

Its not that i think that she is bad, but more like a "fair-weather" player. She plays both sides, wanting the favorable one in the end. She stayed with the Vong and helped them in thier conquest, but when she saw that Jacen would do all of this, she went and trained him. She just wants to live, thats all.

 

interesting. I think she is on the "good" side. Not so much a fair weather player -- she is just looking at the big picture. thats why she left- to save Zonoma Secot & hey, why not learn about a new species who can invade the galaxy at will. Then she just gets.... stuck. she cant get back so she goes with it. then by the time she does come back- everything is different so, she figures out whats up, who the main players are, then uses what she knows from the old school & the new & is going to try &help the good guys.
agree? disagree?

 

I kinda agree. But thats what im thinking. She helps save the Sector, but realizes that the enemy will be too strong for them to vanquish, so she stays with them, getting on the favorable side of it. (since the Republic had no military then, she realized that they would easily invade the galaxy, she didnt want to die in that war, or she tried to stall them. Either works.) i just dont know her motives.

 

how do you think Luke & the others will react to Vergere?

 

Im betting mixed reactions. Well, she did save two of the most important people in the book now (Jacen and Mara,) But she did help the Vong in the most horrific ways...i dont know.

They would probably be like:
Hello, thank you for saving them. Now, choose your poison.

 

I'm hoping they disagree at least a little. Im afraid all this talk about the new nature of the force will be wasted if the next writer decides not to like it, or focus on it anyway.
I think Vergere would make a good council member. Talk about a new perspective.

i say it --vurje-air, but I was told its supposed to be what you guys said, but with an "A" on the end not an "E".
damn Sci-fi names. I dont know how to say em, I just know what they look like in print.