ST Vader in the new trilogy theory

Well, since it is in the "art of tfa" book that they thought about using an Anakin/Vader ghost in TFA...



But nah, the line about showing Kylo the darkside again probably means nothing...

 

Anakin the Jedi = Vader the Sith

They are one in the same. Anakin is Vader. Vader is Anakin. That is the basis for Anakin's tragic fall and his ultimate redemption.

 

I think you're stretching the limits of what is believable and entertainable as a concept. Kylo is simply hanging on a point of view, one that has been crafted and manipulated by Snoke since he was a child: that Darth Vader was strong and could have been even stronger, if not for his failures. With benefit of hindsight and Snoke's twist on the story, it is easy for Kylo to see what he believes to be the straight and narrow.

 

His lightsaber (the red one) shows up in AFTERMATH by Chuck Wendig, on the black market 3 months after Endor, and is purchased by what appears to be a Nightsister who is associate with Acolytes of the Beyond.

 

But that's not how that works because why on earth would Anakin tell Ben to finish what he started?

There is only Anakins force ghost and Vader no longer exists.

 

Anakin wouldn't be the one talking to Ben, it would be Vader talking to Kylo and he doesn't have to say to finish what he started, Kylo could take that mission on himself, Vader could just be a guiding influence on the darkside of the force who Kylo wants to impress.

 

Would that be about his acting, or his character's behavior throughout the Clone Wars era?

 

Indeed. If anything Kylo is speaking to him in his head, but I have serious doubts he's ACTUALLY communing with Anakin. He's just talking to him as an ancestor.

It's also possible that Snoke uses the Dark Side to pretend to speak to Kylo as Vader?

But yeah, Vader is dead and not comnig back. Anakin is the Force Ghost version of him now.

 

I would not be surprised if Anakin has or will try to communicate with Kylo at some point or another.

 

When explaining to Luke why he didn't tell him Vader was his father, Kenobi says that anakin ceased to exist, Kylo echoes this when talking to Han. He tells Han that Ben Solo is dead, only Kylo Ren exists now. Thus while anakin and vader are the same physical person they're not the same.

 

Indeed. The REAL Anakin force ghost....and Kylo would be beside himself trying to equate the two images in his head (Vader VS Anakin)

 

This will be Kylo Ren's face after the beating received by Rey.


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He deserved that beating completely.

 

None of which explains why he believes Vader has shown him things before. There's possible answers for Kylo thinking he's interacted with Vader and one of them is this: he honestly has. I don't see how that can be ruled out. ROTJ didn't erase Vader. As many have pointed out, they're not separate people. They're linked. One will not die unless they both do. There's also nothing to suggest Force ghosts are frozen in time and that Anakin/Vader couldn't have evolved in the past 30 years.

And Kylo isn't really wrong. Vader was strong as a sith and could have been stronger if only he could overcome Anakin. Being unable to overcome the lighter side of himself is a failure for the darkness.

 

Were those his ashes that Kylo laid his face mask in when he took it off for Rey?

 

You can rule it out because its ridiculous. Going along the line of other things that happen in the same movie, it is far more likely that, in recovering Vader relics, they gave him some glimpse, some vision, some impression. Which was a one time thing.

That was my assumption. If he wants another glimpse, he should find out what happens when you smoke your boy...

 

I thought there was a strong suggestion that is was fake. Been a while now, but I seem to recall that.

 

In Shattered Empire, Leia has a vision of Maul when she goes to the Theed power generator. Maybe the mask gives Kylo visions of Vader in a similar manner?

 

I agree with those who are saying if Kylo actually believes he is receiving visions from Vader, it is either Snoke manipulating those events, or Kylo is getting some leftover Vader energy from the relics.

Put simply, Vader no longer exists... only Anakin. Vader cannot communicate with someone as a Force Ghost as we understand them. Only Anakin can. And if the rumors are true, then we may very well see Anakin in some form in the upcoming movies. I, for one, would LOVE to see this because Hayden is actually a good actor (see Shattered Glass or Life As a House if you disagree) although I agree his portrayal of Anakin in the prequels was problematic, but virtually everyone's acting was.

 

It would be a completely pointless interlude if it was fake. Canon. Unless Wendig spends an interlude in book 2 telling us that saber was a fake, should we not take his at his word in the text? I don't recall anything to suggest it being fake...I think the nightsister-thing asks about it being the real thing, and the black marketeer just says "Why wouldn't it be?"

That's not a strong suggestion of anything,

 

Also a good possibility. Maybe we won't even get an answer whether it is a ghost or just imagination. It's not really a question you need to answer.

So certain are you? Can a single act of good, even if it was technically a murder, erase twentyfive years of committed evil? Is that in any way true of the human soul, that you can simply undo? Imo just because he chose good in the end doesn't mean those twentyfive years aren't part of him forever, that those twentyfive years didn't form him. He has seen and done things that are unforgettable and unforgivable.

 

If Anakin COULD appear to Kylo Ren, wouldn't he already have done so to try to talk some sense into the kid? I have no problem with seeing HC's ghost appear to Ren in E8, but they are going to have to address this or it will be a huge plot hole.

 

Anakin and Vader are not separate people neither in life nor in death. The two sides of the same person, yes, he has two sides as the Force itself has two sides. The grandfather of Ben Solo/Kylo Ren is Vader/Anakin. These are facts, I think. The question is if this person has ever spoken to Ben Solo, and if he did what was the message. I do not think that Anakin/ Vader wanted to turn his grandson to the Dark Side, especially since he is not such a great talent (I am not totally against the idea that the Force or Vader as its manifestation wants to see a new Darksider order, but why with Kylo?! Really, Rey looked more gifted at using her anger than him), and why would it be Anakin's goal to destroy the life mission of his beloved son?

 

there is no way vader's body get's reanimated
that being said there may be a good reason jedi burn the bodies when a jedi dies and doesn't dissappear
perhaps a certain snoky is someone else reanimated

 

It's hard to tell what Anakin/Vader would do to help his family and/or the galaxy. Even in life people had troubles predicting his actions, as the Jedi and Palpatine found out.

Kylo says something like "show me the power of the darkside again" to the Vader mask. So it's safe to assume that Anakin/Vader already spoke to him. Maybe it was more of a warning.