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Visual Storytelling at its greatest: In depth analysis.

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by _dArTh_SoLo, Sep 17, 2004.

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  1. earlchinna

    earlchinna Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2004
    hi guys, I just let you know i'm still looking at this thread (and the great site "galactic symphony" as well) and glad that some of you continue to post!!

    i have a suggestion, i'm not sure the comparison was already made:
    the main building in the podrace scene (with jabba inside) looks really similar than jabba's palace

    also i'm not sure anybody established the paralell between luke talking with r2 in the x-wing/ obi-wan with r4 in aotc (and maybe anakin and r2 in rots)

    let me know if those are new catches, and if you can post pics!
    keep up the good work, i'll try to find more ASAP!
     
  2. DARTHCLANDESTINE

    DARTHCLANDESTINE Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 17, 2005
    [image=http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8274/vlcsnap28955ct9.png]

    [image=http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1489/vlcsnap130426xy2.png]
     
  3. therealmixmaster

    therealmixmaster Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2001
    Great to see that some of you are still interested in this stuff...

    I was tidying up my web design portfolio tonight and I complete overhauled the Galactic Symphony site (http://gs.michaelhopcroft.com). I've tried to make it much simpler. Hope you like it.

    Later,
    Michael
     
  4. DARTHCLANDESTINE

    DARTHCLANDESTINE Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 17, 2005
    Good job Michael! Haven't visited the site for a year now and seen some things I didn't catch (and those were from 2005. [face_blush] )

    Thanks for the update. Appreciate all your work! [:D]
     
  5. DARTHCLANDESTINE

    DARTHCLANDESTINE Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 17, 2005
    [image=http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9946/vlcsnap93142xl5.png]

    [image=http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5079/vlcsnap102598jk3.png]



     
  6. Pyrogenic

    Pyrogenic Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2006
    Yes! You still exist!
     
  7. therealmixmaster

    therealmixmaster Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2001
    Thanks for the support guys!

    And DARTHCLANDESTINE... amazing job on still coming up with some really excellent motifs.

    Check it: http://gs.michaelhopcroft.com/motif/797



    Also, I'm happy to say that I've managed to fix a major performance problem with the website... so now it's really nice and quick to load!! I hope you find it easier to use.
     
  8. DARTHCLANDESTINE

    DARTHCLANDESTINE Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 17, 2005
    Oh, I am very much honored to see that! Thks! [:D]

    I love looking for some of the similarities, thus will keep trying to find more! :D

     
  9. earlchinna

    earlchinna Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2004
    great to see some activity! cheers!

    nobody inspired by my suggestions?
     
  10. DARTHCLANDESTINE

    DARTHCLANDESTINE Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 17, 2005
    Firstly, sorry earlchinna, I tried to get the pics you are looking for. The first one, I did try but didn't really pick up similarities. If you can be more specific that might help a bit more. The latter pics, I think we've had them done before.

    And now....

    [image=http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1193/vlcsnap59931iu6.png]

    [image=http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6628/vlcsnap70035kp9.png]

     
  11. DARTHCLANDESTINE

    DARTHCLANDESTINE Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 17, 2005
    Oh no you don't. Not from the first page! [face_not_talking] :p



    [image=http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9157/anakinoutofpoliticstpmzo8.png]

    [image=http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9020/anakinoutofpoliticsatocdo3.png]


     
  12. earlchinna

    earlchinna Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2004
    nice one...

    yeah i was referring to the first shot of the podrace sequence (just after we see the sith probe in mos espa)
    and for exemple the shot of jabba's palace when the frog eat another weird beast (added in the s.e. i think....)

     
  13. DBrennan3333

    DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2004
    (No big deal, but just for the record, the frog-like creature snatching a prey with its tongue was not an SE addition. Here's a list of all the things that were added: http://www.starwars.com/episode-vi/release/video/f20060908/index.html )
     
  14. xx_Anakin_xx

    xx_Anakin_xx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 9, 2008
    I always wanted to compare Luke falling down the shaft with Sidious' fall down the shaft
     
  15. earlchinna

    earlchinna Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2004
    so ain't my suggestion more precise now? or has this motif already been done?
     
  16. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Hey guys, this thread is amazing. Lucas is a brilliant visual filmmaker, and while I've noticed a fair number of these myself, you guys have also brought up some really interesting, smaller ones. Lucas has done a really good job of establishing this cyclical but upward moving history through the generations in SW. Great job pointing them out!

    [hl=darkred]-sj loves kevin spacey[/hl]
     
  17. earlchinna

    earlchinna Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2004
    ok here we go! i hope it will bring back some activity here

    [image=http://theforce.net/swtc/Pix/magazines/cinefex/mearena2.jpg]

    [image=http://www.skywlkr.net/idc/articles/archive/2006/071406/jabbas%20palace.jpg]
     
  18. MasterLuke83

    MasterLuke83 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Ill be checking the previous long pages for the one ive noticed:

    In ROTS, Padme asks anakin to hold her, she rests on Anakins shoulder exactly like Leia does han in ROTJ with the same dialogue.
     
  19. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Yep.
    Nice find, ML. :)

    Here are the images for you:

    [image=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v464/OBIWAN-JR/rotj_mq_260.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189160293/gallery_272_3334.jpg]

    Once again, we see that Lucas has reversed the framing of the two shots, to emphasise the parallel nature of the two trilogies.

    In both, mother and daughter are comforted.
    Whilst their respective lovers remain uncomfortable.


    -JR :)
     
  20. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Another:

    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189160293/gallery_272_20477.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189304521/gallery_273_16236.jpg]

    Wife embraces returning hero-husband, concern on her face, having feared him dead.
    Sister embraces returning hero-brother, jubilation on her face, having feared he might die.


    Once again, Lucas reverses the framing from one trilogy to the other.

    Note also, the simple difference in expressions of mother and daughter
    acts as metaphor for the difference in outcome of father and son at the end of each trilogy.


    -JR :)
     
  21. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Okay.

    I know that these have most likely been shown before at different stages, but I'm not sure they've all been shown together, and I also wanted to add a little commentary to the couplings.

    I'd also like to do a fuller crit of the end montages as sequences, as there are lots of great repeat motifs in them, but don't really have the time right now, so I will keep it purely to the final shots.


    Episode 1; Episode 4:

    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194979868/gallery_270_43984.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1189160293/gallery_273_10508.jpg]

    Repeat Motif: Presumptuous Celebration

    Having literally, and metaphorically, ascended stairs, the heroes celebrate by honouring themselves. However, the celebration is a false dawn; with dark times and great loss to follow.

    ....

    The two shots aren't as obviously reversed within the repeat motif as they are in the couplings of episodes below, however, the visual flips that Lucas has clearly placed throughout his two trilogies, are still very much apparent within these two final frames; just a little subtler.

    In the centre of Episode 1's shot, we have Padme, all in white, with the recipient of the Globe of Peace - Boss Nass - to the right of her. In the centre of Episode 4's shot, we have Leia, all in white, with the recipient of one of the medals - Luke - to the left of her.

    Clearly Han is also wearing his medal, but it is Luke's medal that it the more obvious, because he is wearing a yellow jacket (the colour that the human eye sees first), and also because his medal stands out more on his black top. So when comparing the two shots, you very clearly see the honour that Padme has given to Boss Nass, and the honour that Leia has given to Luke.

    Interestingly Lucas reverses direction of the honour, too - Luke's medal hangs down under his head, from it's ribbon; the Globe of Peace is held above Boss Nass' head, with his arms forming the upside-down shape of the ribbon

    Also reversed are the positions of the 'cocky' friend. In Episode 1, Obi-Wan appears to the left of Padme, and in Episode 4, Han appears to the right of Leia.

    And whilst the Artoo appears on the same side of the frame in both shots, 'Threepio' is reversed - bearing in mind that Lucas made very clear parallels between Threepio and Anakin/Vader throughout the Prequel Trilogy.

    So in Episode 1, 'Threepio' (Anakin) is to the right of Artoo, and in Episode 4, ol' goldenrod is to the left of Artoo.


    Episode 2; Episode 5:

    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194895730/gallery_271_30105.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191719303/gallery_274_22815.jpg]

    Repeat Motif: Concerned Contemplation

    Having both had their limbs replaced by bionic appendages, the male heroes look out to the sky/stars, accompanied by the female heroes and their two faithful droids. Both husband & wife and brother & sister contemplate loss - for Anakin and Padme it is the loss of their innocence and of the truth; for Luke and Leia it is the loss of their friend and lover, respectively.

    ....

    The reverse framing that Lucas has created in these two shots is far easier to see.

    In Episode 2, husband and wife are to the left of frame, with Anakin on the outside. In Episode 5, brother and sister are to the right of frame, with Luke on the inside.

    In Episode 2, the droids are to the right of frame, with Artoo on the outside. In Episode 5, the droids are to the left of frame, with Artoo on the inside.

    Also of note is the lighting: in AOTC, the characters are in shadow with a light sky outside of the 'window' that they look; in TESB, the characters are in light with the dark of space outside of the window that they look. Anakin and Padme have come through a dark chapter but remain in the shadow, hinting at their fate. Luke and Leia have come through a dark chapter but are depicted in the light, also hinting at their fate.


    Episode 3; Episode 6:

    [image=http://www.scifiu
     
  22. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    No repeat motifs or reverse framing here, this is just a great little visual metaphor from George that I always loved.

    ....

    In AOTC, Jar Jar's being manipulated by Palpatine parallels that of Anakin. Both have scenes with the Supreme Chancellor INSIDE his office where they are subtly manoeuvred into positions that he wishes them to be - Anakin, by tapping into his ego; Jar Jar by manipulating his innocence and responsibility to his Mistress.

    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194895079/gallery_271_4243.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194895862/gallery_271_3979.jpg]

    In TPM, both characters are found by Qui-Gon, taken out of their relatively simple societies, and arrive at the Capital planet for the first time as naive youngsters.

    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194981053/gallery_270_7443.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194979868/gallery_270_10478.jpg]

    They are both depicted sat together [above] - symbolically shown to be much closer to the political arena than ever before, but still clearly OUTSIDE of it, - happily chatting as friends behind the glass wall of Palpatine's office, whilst the Senator is having a weighty discussion with Padme.

    By the time of AOTC, both Anakin and Jar Jar have been drawn into the corrupt world of Republic politics, and by movie's end it is clear that both characters have had their innocence abused by Palpatine.


    -JR :)



     
  23. OBIWAN-JR

    OBIWAN-JR Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2002
    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194894288/gallery_271_22078.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194896243/gallery_271_5192.jpg]
    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191833217/gallery_274_29547.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191719303/gallery_274_17645.jpg]

    Episode 2: Villain safely aboard his ship, right of frame.
    Episode 5: Villain safely aboard his ship, left of frame.


    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194894941/gallery_271_26883.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194896004/gallery_271_23141.jpg]
    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191833125/gallery_274_4454.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191832769/gallery_274_15458.jpg]

    Episode 2: Heroes arrive, left to right, heading for arched entrance.
    Episode 5: Heroes arrive, left to right to left, heading through arched entrance.


    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194895211/gallery_271_7334.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194895211/gallery_271_38775.jpg]
    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191832769/gallery_274_19318.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191833028/gallery_274_2906.jpg]

    Episode 2: Mother, all in white, alights landing platform carrying stolen weapon, left to right, leading back-up.
    Episode 5: Daughter, all in white, alights landing platform carrying stolen weapon, right to left, leading back-up.


    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194895730/gallery_271_33352.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194896004/gallery_271_6477.jpg]
    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191832876/gallery_274_19813.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191832769/gallery_274_5683.jpg]

    Episode 2: Shots fired at villain's ship, as it pulls away from right of frame to centre.
    Episode 5: Shots fired at villain's ship, as it pulls away from left of frame to centre.


    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194894288/gallery_271_27478.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1194895598/gallery_271_6598.jpg]
    [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191832769/gallery_274_1035.jpg] [image=http://www.scifiunited.com/Gallery_Images/1191833267/gallery_274_14321.jpg]

    Episode 2: Mother looks up from right of frame at escaping ship, first alone, then with back-up.
    Episode 5: Daughter looks up from left of frame at escaping ship, first alone, then with back-up.


    -JR :)






     
  24. Vortigern99

    Vortigern99 Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2000
    ^ ^ Yes, that's a great one that I've noticed before. Thank you for the in-depth analysis of the framing! This truly is a remarkable thread, and in my opinion stands in direct contradiction to claims that Mr. Lucas forgot about or ignored certain aspects of the OT when he made the PT. It's obvious from even a casual perusal of this thread that he pored over the previous films and mined them for themes, ideas, symbols and visual cues.
     
  25. mandragora

    mandragora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 28, 2005
    I posted those in the Palpatine thread some time ago, but they also fit here - on Palpatine and Obi-Wans roles as mentors.

    Fatherly mentors:

    [image=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/mandraxx/Bitmap163.jpg] [image=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/mandraxx/Bitmap135.jpg]

    Notice the switch of sides.

    POV conversations:

    [image=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/mandraxx/Bitmap153.jpg] [image=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/mandraxx/Bitmap144.jpg]
    [image=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/mandraxx/Bitmap140.jpg] [image=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/mandraxx/Bitmap165.jpg]

    Covering and Uncovering of teachers ...

    [image=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/mandraxx/Bitmap122.jpg] [image=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/mandraxx/Bitmap120.jpg]

    And of course the helping hands ...

    [image=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/mandraxx/Bitmap118.jpg] [image=http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e345/mandraxx/Bitmap119.jpg]
     
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