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WATCHING SW IN SEQUENCE

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by First_Stage_Lensman, Feb 23, 2003.

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  1. First_Stage_Lensman

    First_Stage_Lensman Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Feb 23, 2003
    Has anyone here watched all 5 existing episodes in sequence? I had the opportunity a few weeks ago. Although SW is still a work in progress, with much needing to be done in all the films to make them gel completely, my verdict is: it works, it hangs together, it feels like one film.

    The emotional impact is definately heightened by watching them together. It flows pretty well. Characters like Yoda benefit from having a backstory. Recurring characters like Jabba and Boba lend the film the feel of a big novel. The mirroring text and action work very well without feeling redundant. The central characters definately gain depth from the 'PT' - Anakin, Palpatine, Luke & Leia.

    I like the contrasts between the first half & the second half:
    *SW begins in a woeld of high technology, everything works at the push of a button. By ANH only the Empire has this luxury > everyone else is flying in pieces of junk.
    *We start out with our heroes surrounded by noble and self sacrificing characters like Amidala & her entourage & the Jedi. By ANH our heroes have been reduced to the likes of Han Solo, a mercenary.
    *Anakin's time as a Jedi exists in a philosophically diffuse world. By ROTJ all of this has been reduced to 2 options for Luke: vengeance or self sacrifice.

    Has anyone else done this? Thoughts?
     
  2. CoolyFett

    CoolyFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 3, 2003
    i have. but not in that order personally I like movies that start with the ending and then go to the begining to see how you got there. 6,1,2,4,5 waiting for 3
     
  3. The_Anakin_Wannabe

    The_Anakin_Wannabe Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jan 21, 2003
    why would u want to show ROTJ first? It would ruin the 2 surprises that can be shown. If you watched 1-3 then 4-6 we get the surprise that Anakin has fallen and this is a sad time. If we watch 4-6 then 1-3 we get the 'No, I am your father' treatment. Showing ROTJ first ruins the surprise of both.

    As much as I love SW I have tried it many times watching 4-5 in a row and I just can't do it. I'm too active I need to do something after a while.
     
  4. Darth_Dagsy

    Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 18, 2000
    I'll say that although GL wants us to watch in numerical order, I wont be doing that.

    I'll watch OT, then PT.

    Its simply because I want to see Luke fighting the demons of the Dark Side, and winning....then go back and see why Anakin failed.

    Although I'm sure it would all work just fine seeing Anakin fail, followed by Luke succeeding :p

    Its also a bit of a shock to watch the PT with its special effects, and then go to the OT and see it with such inferior special effects.
     
  5. Spike_Spiegel

    Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 12, 2002
    I truly think that SW doesn't quite work when watched 1-3 then 4-6 rather that 4-6 then 1-3.

    Couple of reasons why. If you begin with TPM you are thrown into a world of Jedi and the Force and there is little explanation of what in the name of heck both are. Watching TPM you go "Who are the Jedi? Who cares?"

    Major players are not introduced properly. Why is everybody listening to that green midget? Who cares about a guy with a cheesy braid named Obi-Wan Kenobi? Who cares if the Queen is blown to bits?

    There is a particular scene that bugs me. When Qui-Gon does the mind trick on Watto. I was watching the movie with my girlfriend the other day (she had never seen SW) and she instantly asked me what was going on. There is no explanation of a mindtrick in the entire PT yet the audience is expected to know what it is. This happens with many things in the PT.

    ANH, in the other hand, is designed to ease the audience into the GFFA. You get explanations of what the Jedi are, why do they use sabres, what their powers are. As Luke himself discovers the world around him, the audience does it as well. It was something that was not done in TPM with Anakin.

    I love the PT, but to me they are just that "prequels." They add to the saga, they don't introduce it. I love the way they add nuances and meanings to the SW saga, but I feel that to appreciate them fully, you need to watch the OT first.
     
  6. OBI-GYN_Kenobi

    OBI-GYN_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Jun 25, 2002
    I think those are very valid points there.

    But, we must remember this (and most people don't seem to):

    These movies, the PT, are not being made for people who never saw the OT, they are being made for peopole who have seen the OT.

    The lack of 'backstory' in EP's I & II also prompts us to dig into the OT to 'mine' for those nuggets of information on The Force, Vader, Yoda & Obi-Wan.

    Since I know all the background, I prefer 1--6.
    But, if I was showing them to my friend who never saw them before (one hasn't btw, he hates SciFi), I would go 4-6, then 1 & 2.
     
  7. Spike_Spiegel

    Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 12, 2002
    That is exactly my point. :D
     
  8. D_Lowe

    D_Lowe Jedi Knight star 6

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    Aug 15, 2002
    Here is something to think about. Why would Lucas say that they are meant to be watched 1-6?
     
  9. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Oct 2, 2000
    To quote Arnold Rimmer: "Wrong, wrong, wrong!" ;)

    When you first see the PT, you see these amazing Jedi doing strange things. When you get to the OT, these strange things are explained to you. Then, when you go back and watch the saga again, you get that "Ah, now I get it!" feeling and can just lean back, because you know everything.
    That will be a special feeling that we won´t be able to experience :(
    BTW, there is a similar moment in ANH: When Vader strikes Obi-Wan down, his body disappears! This is not explained in either of the OT episodes.
    So we would need to first see EpIII, then ANH, then TPM, AOTC, TESB & ROTJ when we fully understand what´s going on. That´s the only way we could truly appreciate the saga! [face_plain]

    Another thing: There are other things that do get explained in the PT that are never talked about in the OT. I´m talking about the emotional adventures of Anakin and Luke. To truly understand what Luke is going through in TESB for example, you will need to have Anakin´s journey in AOTC in the back of your mind. The same goes for ANH/TPM and probably ROTJ/EpIII.
     
  10. Spike_Spiegel

    Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 12, 2002
    Lars_Muul, that is highly illogical. How can you introduce things that are so integral to the story (ie, the Force) and wait two movies to explain them? That makes no sense storytelling wise. TPM has no clear explanation of what the Force is, compared to the clear conscise explanation given by old Ben. ANH is designed to be the first chapter of a saga in the sense that it is designed to introduce the audience to the universe. TPM just throws the audience to the GFFA, it seems to assume the audience has some sort of knowledge about the Force and Jedi Knights

    I disagree about your point on Luke. Why do we need to know Anakin's story here? I concede that it adds a lot to the drama (I myself have watched it many times after seeing the PT), but its not necessary. You identify with Luke as a child who has lost his father and his clinging to the idea that his father was this great man, a Jedi Knight and has his hopes dashed by the horror of the truth. To capture that feeling, Anakin's story is not really necessary. If it were, ESB would have never worked in 1981.

    The way the PT is being done, it serves to give a backstory to the main story. It assumes that the audience knows what SW is. Practically all the people that I know were introduced to SW via the PT have questions and confusions that are not there when introduced via the OT. For example, how can Jedi leap around and block shots and do all that stuff?
    What on earth is Qui-Gon doing to Watto!!!! (that was my GF's reaction.)

    I think when being introduced to the saga, the best way is 4-6 then 1-3. But, as the wise OBI-GYN says, when you already know the saga, then 1-6 becomes pleasurable!
     
  11. First_Stage_Lensman

    First_Stage_Lensman Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Feb 23, 2003
    I think a lot of people don't realize that they're projecting 20 years of thought, discussion, EU and GL interviews onto the OT. The OT doesn't really explain that much. There isn't much textual info in the SW films - most of the story needs to be inferred from context. Having seen the OT so many times it's easy to get what's going on. If you started as an adult with ANH you would probably complain about the same things as the PT.

    The Force is NOT explained in the OT, it is DESCRIBED; big difference. The SW saga en masse Explains the Force. TPM lays out the mechanics of the Force - the action shows what it can do; AOTC introduces the Dark Side & ties it in with the Prophecy (okay the script did a better job at this but there's still some stuff in the movie); EIII will go deeper into the Dark Side & Force afterlife will (hopefully) be explained. By ROTJ there's a pretty complete picture...if you have the patience to let the story tell itself.

    PS: I think the Jedi mind trick is established in Otoh Gunga pretty clearly. By the time you get to Tatooine it is obvious that the Force can be used to influence others.
     
  12. D_Lowe

    D_Lowe Jedi Knight star 6

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    Aug 15, 2002
    I was watching the movie with my girlfriend the other day (she had never seen SW) and she instantly asked me what was going on. There is no explanation of a mindtrick in the entire PT yet the audience is expected to know what it is. This happens with many things in the PT.
    [ul]I got the answer to that.

    "What, you think you're some kind of Jedi, waving your hand around like that? I'm a Toydarian. Mind tricks don't work on me. Only money."
    --Watto

    Padme - "Are you going to use one of your Jedi mind tricks on me?"
    Anakin - "They only work on the weakminded."
    [/ul]
     
  13. First_Stage_Lensman

    First_Stage_Lensman Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Feb 23, 2003
  14. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE

    ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 27, 2001
    I think it is better to watch it from TPM to ROTJ.

    The surprise of seeing Yoda duel after being an old hermit, and Vader's revelation may be spoiled, but the emotion surrounding Anakin's journey, and the surprise that he turns to the darkside is much more powerful if you see it from the beginning. Seeing Anakin grow from an innocent kid to the most evil dude in the universe will have a much stronger impact.

    Obi-Wan's death in ANH will be much more powerful.

    And there will be many great surprises, such as Qui-Gon's death in TPM. In TPM, Qui-Gon is the main character, but then is he suddenly killed. Great surprise.

    Obi-Wan almost dies twice in TPM and once in AOTC near the end. Those will be great surprises.

    And the overall sadness of everything that is good turning evil will be much more powerful, and it will make the ending of ROTJ much more powerful.

    TPM through ROTJ is the way to go ;) :D :cool:
     
  15. First_Stage_Lensman

    First_Stage_Lensman Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Feb 23, 2003
    Good points ST-TPM. That's my take. But it's like Tolkien - some people always give LORs to people thinking The Hobbit isn't important. I always give The Hobbit first.
     
  16. Wise-Master

    Wise-Master Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Dec 11, 2002
    I have not done that yet, and I don't want to until Episode III comes out.

    I'll watch I and II, go to the theater watch III, come home and watch IV, V, and finally VI.

    Of course it will take over half a day to do this. But hey.
     
  17. 2PacLives

    2PacLives Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2002
    I'm in total agreement that the saga should be viewed in numerical order (1-6) rather than order of release (4-6 1-3). I think it would give for the best viewing experience.

    But there is another order in which to watch them. It would be a different experience than 1-6, but one that is equally satisfying in my opinion.

    Aside from 1-6, does anyone see the advantages of watching it 4 5 1 2 3 6?
    You start with a ANH and you watch until the end of TESB. You are then treated to the backstory and when that's completed, you have all the knowledge you need to continue to the final act.

    I still think 1-6 is the ideal order, but the order mentioned above could work also.
     
  18. Spike_Spiegel

    Spike_Spiegel Former FF Administrator Former Saga Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 12, 2002
    " The Force is NOT explained in the OT, it is DESCRIBED; big difference

    "Its an energy field. It surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the Galaxy together." I think that's about the best explanation anybody can give of the Force.

    PS: I think the Jedi mind trick is established in Otoh Gunga pretty clearly. By the time you get to Tatooine it is obvious that the Force can be used to influence others.

    Not really. How does a newbie know what happened there? All we see is a lot of hand-waving and Boss Nass changing his mind. That scene really needed a throwaway line by Jar-Jar saying "Whatsa happened?" much like Luke's query in ANH.


    "What, you think you're some kind of Jedi, waving your hand around like that? I'm a Toydarian. Mind tricks don't work on me. Only money."
    --Watto


    This would have worked if the intro to the mindtrick was done properly. Newbies at this point have no clue what a mindtrick is and will miss this line completely.


    Padme - "Are you going to use one of your Jedi mind tricks on me?"
    Anakin - "They only work on the weakminded."


    Isn't this a movie late? A line like this in TPM would have done the job much better.

    My point is that ANH is a better introduction to the GFFA simply because it is seen through the eyes of Luke Skywalker, a boy that is being introduced to the GFFA himself. TPM has a perspective shift, it is seen through the eyes of Qui-Gon Jinn. There is an attempt to explain stuff, but it already assumes you know some backstory.

    Aside from 1-6, does anyone see the advantages of watching it 4 5 1 2 3 6?
    You start with a ANH and you watch until the end of TESB. You are then treated to the backstory and when that's completed, you have all the knowledge you need to continue to the final act.


    I think 4 5 1 2 3 6 is a cool idea. I agree with what you say here.

    But,

    watching 123456 would ruin THE best surprise of the SW universe:

    "No, I am your father!"

    Nothing can beat that moment.

     
  19. First_Stage_Lensman

    First_Stage_Lensman Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Feb 23, 2003
    That's your Opinion, SS. I really don't have your overweening affection for that moment. There are moments in TPM & AOTC I like waaay more than that. I like the Brother/Sister revelation in ROTJ more. For me the slow acretion of story content over the 6 sections of the story has more impact than that one moment out of context, which it is if you skip the first half of the film. It's like skipping the first three quarters of 'Psycho' because the end is so shocking - the end gains from the rest of the film, the build up. For future generations that last quarter of ESB is where all the pieces fall together and the quickening begins, which is cooler than the original effect - to me.
     
  20. Obi-Ewan

    Obi-Ewan Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 24, 2000
    Here is something to think about. Why would Lucas say that they are meant to be watched 1-6?

    Because that's the sequence in which the story happens. However, in making the prequels, he hasn't always made it friendly to those who haven't seen the originals. The Force, for example, is never explained. It's as if Lucas assumed everyone watching already knew information they could only get from watching ANH. I'll eventually watch them 1-6, but beginning with TPM is not virgin-friendly.
     
  21. OBI-GYN_Kenobi

    OBI-GYN_Kenobi Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    If you started as an adult with ANH you would probably complain about the same things as the PT.

    I did start as an adult (well, 16) & I didn't.......

    The thing that gets me about 'ruining' such surprises is that it's only the first time.

    The 2nd time we saw ESB, were we surprised by "I am your father"?
    No, but we loved that moment again. And again & again......

    Well, you get my point.

    When it's all done, we're all going to sit down & watch them 1-6 - of that I'm sure.

    However, at this point, in the middle of the PT, I believe it is correct to assume that GL has assumed a certain amount of knowledge on the GFFA......
     
  22. Deuspater

    Deuspater Jedi Youngling

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    Feb 11, 2003
    I think the Force is adequately explained in TPM. The opening crawl refers to the "Jedi Knights" as the "protectors of peace and justice in the galaxy" (I believe that's the line, forgive me if I'm wrong). We hear Obi-Wan and Qui-Gonn refer to the Force and it is ovbious that this is the source of their special powers, for example, there ability to knock battledroids away without touching them. Qui-Gonn also has a scene with Watto that perfectly explains the Jedi Mind trick. I think the explanation of the Force becomes more clear through the saga. All the beginner needs to know, I think, is that the Jedi are an order of altruistic knights who serve the Republic, and that their knowledge of the Force gives them special powers.
     
  23. rpeugh

    rpeugh Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2002
    There is no way Lucas could have explained the force again in TPM, b/c then it would sound redundant in ANH. The viewer would be saying, "Yeah,Yeah, ok Obiwan, I already know that." Also, it would sound redundant to US in TPM. The way Lucas did it happens all the time. THere is always a situation in every movie where the viewer says ***? at the beginning of the movie, and he doesnt get an explanation about it until the middle of the movie. EXAMPLE: At the beginning of ANH, we see Leia putting something into R2, but we dont know what it is, and R2 is blabbering about some kind of mission, and we dont find out what it is until about 35 minutes into the movie.
     
  24. Emos-Edud

    Emos-Edud Jedi Padawan star 4

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    May 29, 2002
    Spike,

    Uh, it's been a while since I've seen ANH, but I'm sure D_Lowe will correct me if I am mistaken...

    Doesn't ANH skip over any explanation of the mind trick? I thought Ben just did some hand-waving to the stormies and they just repeated his words back to him. I'd hardly call that an explanation. It is a display, just like the ones in TPM, except that at least in TPM it is given a name.
     
  25. D_Lowe

    D_Lowe Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    The Jedi mind trick on the original trilogy was only explained briefly by Obi-Wan when Obi-Wan used it on the Stormtroopers.

    "The Force can have a strong influence on the weakminded."
    --Obi-Wan Kenobi (ANH)


    We have just as much of explaination an explaination in the Prequels.

    One thing I have noticed about we as posters here on TheForce.net boards have in common is that we are all Star Wars fans. We are all different, and have different views because of our different experiences, backgrounds, and countries, but one thing we have in common is that we love our Star Wars. For some of us, it is the thing we love most. Others it is something they really love. In any case, Lucas has created something for us to love for our entire lives.

    The point I am getting at is that no matter how we like to view the saga, like 1-6 or 4-6, then 1-3, or 4-5, 1-3, then 6, or whatever the preference is, we have our own way to learn to love the Star Wars movies and our way to correctly watch the stories. Even though Lucas said it is meant to be watched 1-6, there are some people who feel differently.

    You can't please everybody and Lucas knows that. But from his point of view as the story teller, he feels that it should be 1-6. Now if anybody feels that it should be viewed differently, I'm sure Lucas has no problem with you doing that. He just wants you to enjoy the stories he has put a lot of hard work on the movie screen.
     
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