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Saga What Do We, As Star Wars Fans, Actually Want Star Wars To Be About and Should the Saga Continue?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Plan741, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. Plan741

    Plan741 Jedi Knight star 2

    Dec 22, 2015
    Ever since I saw Star Wars in the theater back in 1977, the series has been my lifelong obsession. From collecting the vehicles and figures to reading the books and comics, playing the video games and watching the animated shows, I have enjoyed the very many flavors and varieties the series has had to offer. But at no other time more than now have I seen so much discontent among those who love the SW universe as much as I do. Everyone seems to have a perfect vision of what SW is supposed to be about, and over the years each successive installment seems to draw the ire from fans who dislike what has been done in the films, citing that it doesn't meet their expectations of what Star Wars is supposed to be about. In my experience, the discord began with Empire Strikes Back and has grown with each passing film and every published book that came after. No two people seem to agree on just what makes a Star Wars movie feel like Star Wars to them.

    There are tons of threads arguing which set of movies is best (to the point there has to be a Warning Banner at the top of each page discouraging contemplation of the topic). There are even more threads devoted to the individual films discussing if they are even to be considered a part of the overall story or not. In the spirit of sharing common ground and learning to respect the ideas and feelings of those whom we do not share common ground with, I ask for pleasant discussion on the topic of "What do we, as Star Wars fans, actually want Star Wars to be about and should the Saga continue?"
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  2. Dukeleto69

    Dukeleto69 Jedi Knight star 2

    Dec 27, 2017
    I would call myself an "enthusiast" rather than a hardcore fan.

    As a kid I loved the OT and had all the toys. As an adult I have watched all the films multiple times but never ventured into the EU books or comics etc and have never watched an episode of TCW or Rebels.

    As such what I want is fairly simple - quality well written stories and well made films that are coherent and fit together with the wider mythology and indeed expand that mythology... But in a way that does not trash what has gone before.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  3. Hernalt

    Hernalt Force Ghost star 4

    Jun 29, 2000
    Expository communication of the political landscape at a rate no less than what was delivered in SW77.
    What does friend mean.
    How does one pay for the sins of a parent. By how many stripes is the parent healed. (I await where this dynamic is handed off to a mother daughter pair.)
    How does one find the ember in the ash.

    Wish list: New hardware and venue that is not cynical facsimile. A ratio of alien to cute non-humans at a rate no less than OT.
  4. yanote

    yanote Jedi Knight star 2

    May 1, 2016
    I want to see Episode IX with my kids and I hope it will be a big one. Visually stunning with many characters from previous trilogies coming back! And then the RJ's new trilogy.

    I also want a Luke On Crait action figure!
    darthfettus2015 and Plan741 like this.
  5. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Mar 10, 2005
    At this point, I don’t care what happens in the future. I’m happy with what GL gave us and the third trilogy has, from my point of view, disconnected itself from his saga, so it really doesn’t matter where they go with it. His story is complete anyway.
    I just hope they won’t pretend that they’ve been following his vision.

    Best case scenario: The Skywalker Saga continues beyond EpIX and GL’s double trilogy is left alone as its own thing.

    Worst case scenario: LFL treats the Skywalker Saga as a trilogy of trilogies and lumps them all together as though the third trilogy is the true end of GL’s story, even though he is clearly unhappy with it.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  6. Blobofat

    Blobofat Chosen One star 8

    Dec 15, 2000
    I want films that continue to push the envelope and confound expectations. New worlds, new scenarios, great characters. Disney are doing well so far.
  7. TheYodaPagoda

    TheYodaPagoda Force Ghost star 4

    Apr 23, 2002
    I guess you missed that story that Lucas thoroughly enjoyed The Last Jedi? That his ideas about Luke being in seclusion were used?
    Don't let the door hit you on your way out.
  8. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Master star 4

    Aug 3, 2013
    My personal opinion is after IX we shouldn't have the Saga continue. We should see films set either side far in the past or sufficiently in the future to have no continuing characters. That's not to say we can't have films fill in the gaps like R1 where it calls for it, but we don't need a continuation of the story or else you just fall into cyclical tropes as we've seen in the ST.

    A Darth Bane trilogy for instance, or one set far in the future, wouldn't be restricted by known characters with set expectations.
  9. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Mar 10, 2005
    You mean the story that he thought it was beautifully made? That says nothing about whether or not he enjoyed it.
    ...and whether or not he enjoyed it has no bearing on whether or not he is happy with the trilogy or sees it as part of his story.
    I know I enjoy it, but I’m not particularly pleased with the way things have turned out - and I certainly don’t see this trilogy as part of GL’s story.

    I know that ideas of his have been used. I also know that they haven’t been used the way he would’ve used them.

    So, I’m fine where I am, thanks. Do whatever you want with the door. I don’t care.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  10. MS1

    MS1 Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 18, 2015
    Its a curious comment from GL isn't it as I would have thought the scenes of similarity would have been quite jarring for him as there hasn't been any effects pioneering used to make anything in TLJ unlike when he did them. I'd love to know if he took pride from that or something else and I take the comment the same way you do. I would also wonder how he views other aspects of the movie as well like the master/apprentice relationships.

    Personally I thought it was fine to use Walkers again but would have preferred something quite a bit different to the Hoth like assault. New terrain, new rebel techniques to defeat them etc. Clearly from the images in TFA the rebels had gotten quite good at taking them down at one point evident by winning the war.

    Moving forward to the general question of the thread my hope was for SW to stay feeling familiar yet widen the universe to the audience. So far RO has done that well and the trilogy hasn't for me. But further to that I think I am also hoping they more away from Saga's and just make stand alone movies. TLJ might have worked better like that as that is what it feels like to me and I'm sick of red herring clues being left all over the place and waiting years to find out they mean nothing. RO was so rewarding being able to walk out of a complete story.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  11. themoth

    themoth Force Ghost star 5

    Dec 5, 2015
    I want the saga to keep one foot in the future and one foot in the past. The sequel era films and the Anthologies satisfy both sections of the fan base. And keep loved characters like Vader and Han alive.
    gaarastar58 likes this.
  12. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Apr 27, 2016
    "There are a lot of movies that are badly made that I love, and there are a lot of movies that are just beautifully made but I don’t like them. And critics have a tendency - that’s all they focus on, which is, “I like it. I don’t like it. It’s good. It’s bad." - George Lucas
  13. Plan741

    Plan741 Jedi Knight star 2

    Dec 22, 2015
    I agree and I think this is exactly what RJ plans to do with his trilogy. On its head, this is exactly how Bioware triumphed with Knights of the Old Republic: it was jaw droppingly Star Wars without depending on anything from the films to justify its existence. It neither felt dated (as a 4000 year precursor to the films) nor derived from the films. It could use any technology present in the films or completely new. It could introduce new aliens not encountered before. And though it isn't considered purely canon anymore, nothing it contained interferes with the films or our understanding of it. I still like to think it all happened in my own mind because it was so cool (to me at least). And it was truly the one and only non film story I really got into. Most people say Heir to the Empire and it was good. At that point we hadn't had any shred of Star Wars for almost 10 years. But it did start the EU weeds growing that ultimately became a tangled mess. All those stories cashed in on our daydreams and soon became something like pizza: even if not very good, it was still pizza...

    But KOTOR was, I believe, the first time something new had been done with SW storytelling and what could be done in it. Sure, it was an RPG built on D&D rules, but the story was really fresh and inventive. It used the familiar just enough to remind me what galaxy I was in, but didn't recycle moments from the films to "be" SW. In short, it provided me with what resonates as SW to me:

    The Jedi: They are the Knights rolled into Wizards rolled into Sheriffs of the adventure. Without Light side force users out there fighting to save the galaxy, there is no Star Wars. Now that isn't to say that they can't take up a new role, name or signature weapon in the future, just that their presence in some form or another for me is mandatory.

    The Dark Side: If there are light side force users in the galaxy, it can be safely assumed that someone else out there is communing with the Dark Side. It can be one or many, an Order or a small following.

    A Quest: The Force always brings together those it needs to shape the galaxy. Gives them purpose, even if they don't recognize it. The Rebellion against the Empire was compelling in the originals. The mystery of the Sith against the backdrop of the Clone Wars was great for the prequels. The Resistance against the First Order of Leftovers from the Rebellion against the Empire? Ok.

    A thriving alien population scattered across countless worlds using technologies ancient, new and bizarre, speaking myriads of languages, grooving to wacky music, toting blasters and piloting increasingly interesting types of vehicles is a must.

    A hero's journey: starting from obscurity and rising to extreme importance because of what they can do in terms of the story. Along with their companions, we strive along with them through moments hilarious, harrowing, tragic and triumphant. People are changed. People are lost. The stakes get bigger and the final battle is desperate. We really aren't getting any of this at the moment.

    John Williams score. This speaks for itself.

    A reason for why we fight. The galaxy, like the force, is always in motion. Freedom and justice is always at stake. The stories need to be essential and the reason another SW movie is being made should mean the stakes are high and the cause is worthy. We are kinda going through the motions again to justify making more of these things. No wonder Luke walked out.

    And we should be drawn in and treated to scenarios and action we haven't seen before. Chills, spills. GL said certain aspects of these movies should rhyme. I don't think he meant copy but change the order.

    And ultimately, it is a statement of choice, purpose and personal growth. The characters have to put forth who they are, what they stand for, and grow during the course of their adventure. I'm waiting to see how this pans out for the new crop.

    Should the saga continue? Not this one. A new one, perhaps. 1-6 told a broad story about the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker. More importantly, it was a story about friends and family, choice and sacrifice. I believe he said the next cycle was about the old guard passing on the torch to the new, about the responsibility the parent had to right their wrongs and how to responsibly pass on said torch. Now, I am not sure what the point is now, but I hope it caps the story well, though I suspect it was just a platform to make movies with the title.

    It has to make me want more and more and more. It has to be the biggest event of my year.

    What about you?
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  14. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    May 19, 2002
    The primary thing I want any saga film to be about is a fairy tale in space with mythic qualities and fantasy elements related to either complex and family love, romantic love, or confusion surrounding the feelings of either, that’s impacted by, or complicates, or leads to war, or ends war, alongside the larger ambitions of the messengers and wizards of both the Light and Dark who aim to influence those at the heart of that drama to their own larger scale ambitions.

    Everything else but that comes secondary to me. Including the last names of the families involved.

    Which is why I am enjoying this ST. It has qualities like that at its core and that’s more important to me than anything else at the core of any saga film.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  15. Generational Fan

    Generational Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Oct 21, 2015
    What has become abundantly clear to me since the release of TLJ, is that all of us fans come at these movies in many different ways; ranging from how plot lines evolve, through to what happens with the characters, etc. People like me want depth of plot and character (which is also balanced out with the kind of action and humour and world-building that a Star Wars film delivers. Other people want other things to happen to make their Star Wars experience a satisfying one.

    And while my cup of tea is not another fan's cup of tea (and vice versa), I don't think any fan has the right to say if the Saga (and Star Wars continues for that matter) should continue or not just because it didn't meet their expectations. Thankfully movies with huge fan bases (such as Star Wars) are not democracy's where the fans get to decide what happens based on a majority vote. Thankfully the decisions for what happens rest with a very talented storygroup.
    Eternal_Jedi and Plan741 like this.
  16. JDN21

    JDN21 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 17, 2004
    I’m not one to fear change, but I want Star Wars to always have a certain nostalgic charm to it, because that is fundamental to its DNA as far as I’m concerned. I think TLJ is missing that.

    As the original Star Wars was inspired by 1950s serials, and the original trilogy has a uniquely early 80s fantasy vibe, that aesthetic is what makes the GFFA for me. Rogue One had this in spades and TFA had healthy doses of it. It’s one of the reasons I’m not a fan of the prequels - it went too theatrical for me, missing that old school serial feel.

    I think the Skywalker saga should’ve ended with ROTJ, particularly as the sequel trilogy seems like a soft reboot of the OT. Unfortunately, after TLJ, I’m not that excited for Episode 9, though I do look forward to Solo, and am interested in the direction that Disney will take their new trilogy. I just hope it isn’t Marvelised.
  17. DBPirate

    DBPirate Jedi Master star 4

    Jun 20, 2015
    I just want the new Star Wars films to mainly expand the mythology of the universe and add new depth to characters and events through the Anthology films. The jump from the George Lucas six to The Last Jedi in particular is very jarring to me and I think that they should've left the Skywalker Saga alone if all they were going to do was rehash ANH for the first installment and then disregard the series' mythos in the second. VII-IX, so far, could've been done much better. The main saga means different things to everyone and every decision each film makes will have massive ramifications on the films before and after it -- they shouldn't continue it after IX when there's so many chances to mess it up.

    If the upcoming Anthology movies are as good as Rogue One, then I can accept the ST as just one misstep on Disney's part. As long as their other films stay true to Lucas' vision and don't try to undermine anything from the first six movies, I'm fine with them.
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  18. Blue 5

    Blue 5 Jedi Knight star 3

    Jan 6, 2017
    The saga should definitely not continue, as I think the sequel trilogy is atrociously written and distorts the genuine saga, which from my perception ended at Episode VI.

    I want all Star Wars stories to be crafted with quality and with a focus on telling a good story and depicting fascinating, deep characters...with any and all political agendas and quotas given the boot out the door.

    I agree with DBPirate...I think if the remaining anthologies even get close to the extremely high bar set by Rogue One that the remaining anthologies will be excellent.
    Bob the X-Winger and DBPirate like this.
  19. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Chosen One star 6

    May 19, 2002
    The Antholoogy films seem to be more focused on feeding the older fans to be honest and giving us what we want. Rouge One was more for those of us who grew up with the OT and questioned that Death Star weakness (what perfect ret con!) than young fans and with the talk that Solo is a gangster film that trend seems like it will continue. Kenobi sounds like it may end up a personal drama with romance based on the writer chosen (which is partially why I still think there will be an end of saga lineage tie in from Rey to Obi-Wan as a reward toward a last name only AFTER she’s chosen her path without one).

    The saga films are more aimed at the same mix Lucas set out for starting with ROTJ and all the way through his prequel trilogy. They’re for kids 6 to 16 primarily with enough fun for 17-40 crowd that are still kids at heart that love magic and fantasy.

    Johnson’s Trilogy I’m very excited about. A blank canvas is perfect for him. I really think he’s the closest thing we have to the next Lucas if given a blank canvas as a writer and director. Set it way in the future or way in the past and just let his inagination run wild.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  20. PadawanGussin

    PadawanGussin Jedi Knight star 2

    Sep 6, 2017
    I would like to see SW branching out in the same way Trek was able to , with new people and plots that are connected to the SW universe but able to stand on their own merits.

    ST TNG
    ST DS9
    ST Voyager
    ST Enterprise

    All of which have decent stories and fan bases, who may disagree about some of the particulars presented in each series but part of the same universe.

    SW also has a very deep universe with many stories that could be told from both before and after the released films and novels and I hope for the SW saga to be reimagined and expanded without diminishing the core components.

    One thing that might be very interesting would be that galaxy far far away today, hundreds of years after any of the movies where the events that we know have truly passed into legend.
  21. BloodStripe

    BloodStripe Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Jun 16, 1999
    It's fascinating to see the march of history at work here, in that some fans have been making this exact statement about the PT for years, only they were using a different metric to draw the line.

    I think that's very much where it's all headed, structurally. Kind of ironic, considering the long-running public rivalry between ST and SW, but no bad thing IMO.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
  22. PadawanGussin

    PadawanGussin Jedi Knight star 2

    Sep 6, 2017
    I love both SW and Trek and never really got the rivalry. They are too different to compare.
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  23. gaarastar58

    gaarastar58 Jedi Master star 3

    Dec 19, 2010
    Is it possible to generate nostalgic charm? I thought the whole point of nostalgia was to look back on things fondly - often ignoring many of their faults. I'm not sure how one creates a sense of nostalgia in SW without leaning on the movies we already have, and personally I would like to see SW venture into new territory rather than delve into the past.
  24. JDN21

    JDN21 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 17, 2004
    I’m talking about the aesthetic and sound design really. A good example is the targeting computer in the Falcon in The Force Awakens, it’s pure 1977 but doesn’t take you out of the film. I suppose I want more of the fantasy element - think of the Falcons arrival on Bespin in TESB - the matte paintings and the golden age of cinema music. Of course, this is all completely subjective and would be a very brave creative decision in modern movies, but for me, it adds a charm which is distinctly Star Wars.
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  25. vong333

    vong333 Force Ghost star 5

    Oct 18, 2003
    This is tough because before we knew that GL had a certain vision for star wars. Love it, hate it it was thre. Disney has there own vision. The best I can give here is that canon should be like in the Star Wars insider...where leeland chee says that canon is what anyone of us wants to make of it. Of course they have the new official canon that covers the new Disney timeline, but, we are free to add whatever we want from legends into our own line if we wish. That's what I got from the article, and that is what I have mostly done.