ST What does the ST add to the Saga? What is its story purpose?

Sounds to me like Mark wasn't one of those people.

And neither was I, at any point before or after the announcement of the ST films. The only thing I wanted was for the new films to at least continue the franchise' appeal of getting creative and going to new narrative places, even if Lucas was no longer involved. TFA proved me wrong pretty quickly, and I bowed out of the trilogy before I could be subjected to more of the same nostalgia-baiting and vapid characters. Even as far back as 2015, I knew could see the creatively-stunted and narratively incompetent direction that these films were going in, and I wouldn't be missing out on anything by skipping them.

Reading the novelizations for TLJ and TROS proved me more right than I ever wanted to be.

 

Lucas’ OT is still the best Star Wars story for me, but I don’t need him involved in everything.

I have no issue in giving other people a chance to tell stories in the franchise, the ST mostly works for me, but RO and The Mandalorian are fantastic and show the potential for letting others have a chance.

 

Likewise. Star Wars is George Lucas. (And Ralph Mcquerrie, who gets shafted....at least some of the st payed some respect to his work)

With that said he did sell the company so others could tell their own stories. It turned out he got burned expecting them to finish with his. And let's be fair, Lucas is on record as saying he started production on 7 through 9 to sweeten the sale, to add value.(as far as I'm aware).

 

You're wrong. I was there at one of the press conferences. He clearly wasn't happy. Not once did Hamill state he was ok with Luke's characterisation in TLJ. Not once did he state that he agreed with Johnson's take on Luke Skywalker. What he did state was that he got to a point where he just conceded. This is a line that Hamill reiterates in most interviews I've seen. That's it. There's no requirement to pretend that Hamill was on board.

 

The buildup to the ST is a long one.
The idea of an ST was talked about in the early 80's.
Then after RotJ not much happened with SW.
Then came the SE and then the PT.
Then Lucas said that he never had any plans for the ST and that it was all an invention by the media.

So there would not be any more SW films and certainly not any with Han, Luke and Leia.

Then an ST was announced, Disney bought SW so now hype was on.

TFA was overall received quite well. It's reception was not, in my opinion, as mixed as TPM, AotC or TLJ.
Plus it made a huge amount of money.
So it was an event.

Then came RO. That had a bit of an uphill climb, people saying "What is the point?", there would be no known characters in big roles and then there was some behind the scenes troubles.
But the trailer with Vader in it built hype and the film did very well. Again reception was overall good and while it's BO was not up to TFA, it made a lot.

TLJ's reception was more mixed and I don't think it was only some "haters" that just screamed more loudly.
The BO, while big, did not hold as well and there was a drop.
Then all the trouble with Solo and it doing badly at the BO.
That I agree with @godisawesome , was a one-two punch that did some damage.
That behind the scenes trouble was all too common and went as far as the directors leaving/getting fired very late in production.
Plus the decline of the BO.
With RoS, you had even more drama, directors getting hired and then leaving.
Creating the impression that there was a serious lack of plan over at LFL.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Agreed. Although there have been some weak points, IMO Rogue One, Solo and Mandalorian are great examples of how when the right team is working on a SW film, it can turn out fantastic.

 

The Corporate Sector Authority would’ve been an interesting evolution from trilogy to trilogy. Those who always win no matter what. Who benefits from empire and conflict? It’s analogous to neoliberal policy and political capture by oligarchs in the present. First introduced in Brian Daley’s Han Solo at Stars’ End, I think. The politics of the New Republic succumbs to the powerful economic interests of the past. Multisystem (not multinational) Corporate Authority like Santhe/Sienar Systems, Big Tech interests and particularly galactic finance. Corporate dictatorship as the enemy of democracy seems to be a relevant topic.


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Sounds like "Star Wars" meets "Rollerball". Interesting.

 

Well, I think there’s one thing most fans can agree on, whether they liked the ST or not: being glad it’s over.

 

I think the OT was mostly about a return to the idealistic fairy tales of old which Lucas felt was important in the time of gritty gangster films. The PT was more of a deconstruction of those fairy tales and presented a story that was more important during a time of nationalism and war. The ST is then a story that starts with that gritty and 'realistic' deconstruction of the fairy tale (no way the New Republic would have worked, obviously fascism would rise again, Luke would realistically be a deeply scarred man who would be terrified of telling his nephew that he was the grandson of Darth Vader, that grandson would never live up to the legends that raised him, etc). But in the end the ST goes back to the idealism of the OT (Rey and Yoda give Luke faith again, the galaxy comes together to stop the rise of fascism, Ben Solo decides to do the right thing and help Rey, etc).

 

Well said. Such a pity that some people who hate the Star Wars Prequels and can’t accept that fans like them also can’t accept that they like the MCU and think it’s better than or equal to Star Wars (at least over the Sequel Trilogy) and have to be such indecent scum about it.

A majority of the Marvel Cinematic Universe films are great. Phase 2 being a dumpster fire is total BS. Guardians of the Galaxy is highly regarded as the best Marvel movie ever and even has George Lucas’s love too, pet director, James Gunn ()

You guys may not see this, but, the MCU is critical to Hollywood’s survival. Because when The Mandalorian Season 2 ends on Disney+ in November following it’s October debut, what can Disney put out to keep people from unsubscribing? The answer is Marvel Studios’ WandaVision, because that’s the only MCU series that got done with filming before the pandemic and is in post-production (https://mcucosmic.com/2020/04/04/what-does-the-new-phase-4-slate-mean-for-disney/, https://www.murphysmultiverse.com/h...s-and-the-czech-republic-reopens-for-filming/) as it remains on track to hit Disney+ in December as planned (https://thedisinsider.com/2020/07/17/wandavision-still-expected-to-make-its-december-premiere-date/). And, I argue WandaVision is important because if it’s going to be a 9-episode 6-hour series, it has the chance to be the most creative and insane thing ever made for television as the whole series apparently cost $225M to make altogether (since Hollywood Reporter said the MCU shows will cost $25M per episode, $10-$15M higher than the SW shows) and it sets up arguably the most hyped movie in Phase 4 of the MCU yet, “Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness”, which could be the first billion dollar film post-pandemic.

So, the hate against the MCU better stop now and not go on anymore, because if it does, I assure you that there will be fire and fury like never dealt with before.

 

I love the MCU and consider the "Infinity Saga" a highly satisfying experience, far, far, far better than the ST. And I`m looking forward to the MCU TV projects. However, fire and brimstones won`t reign down if people don`t like it and don`t have an interest in it and say so. Everyone has a right to their opinion.

 

Relax buddy. We're not wrong about the MCU. Some of us just have a different opinion than you do. And are you seriously threatening "fire and fury like never dealt with before" at posters here for disagreeing with you about the MCU? What the heck does that mean, and why are you making Trump-style threats? This is the most unhinged post I have yet seen here, and that's saying a lot!

And for the record, I don't even like the ST, so keep me out of your dumb ST vs. MCU slugfest.

 

Umm... what? I assure you that statements like this are not productive or welcome here.

Having said that, let's all try to stay on topic in here.

 

LEGO Life Day special with the characters from the Sequel Trilogy will arrive on Disney Plus in November

 

its not a bad analogy to go with WWI PT, WWII OT, and modern rise of alt right fascism as the ST. The First Order being somewhat inept bloodthirsty unsubtle Imperial cosplayers really sells that last bit. Although kinda gets a wrench thrown into the analogy since Palpatine is behind it all and had his Final Order fleet lying in wait. Does that mean Hitler's head in a jar is behind everything happening now?

 

I've never been able to watch more than 30 minutes of any MCU film [ducks and runs for cover].

 

Ditto. All I wanted/expected from disney's acquisition, was new star wars stories.

 

Yes.

 

This is a great thread topic and something I struggle with immensly with 7,8,9. I actually enjoy 7,8,9 as standalone movies as I think they are all well done. The problem is when I watch them in the context as Part 7, Part 8 and Part 9 of the Skywalker Saga, that is where the narrative completely falls apart. Maybe there was no way to tie these movies together after Lucas made a definitive starting and ending in Episode 1 and 6. The arc of Anakin and Palpatine are fully fleshed out in the PT/OT, and and Luke essentially becomes the hero of the story midway through.

Part of me thinks Disney made a mistake of trying to tie to the story to 1-6 and should just told a new story yet still using our beloved characters. The point is you could still have Luke, Leia and Han passing the torch to Rey, Finn and Poe but do it in a way that didn't have anything to do with the past. No talk of Vader, no talk of the First Order rising from the Empire, no return of Palpatine. Just a new threat, a new story, and you transition the old to the new characters. Instead, they retroactively made Luke, Leia and Han THE reason why the galaxy is in the state it's in, so that forced them to keep going back to the past instead of pointing to the future.

 

It was a humongous mistake IMHO... and you’re right, directly tying the OT3 into events only served to undermine the entire narrative, as well as the OT3 characters. Lucasfilm wanted their cake and to eat it...

 

Think Adolf Hitler of the Twilight Zone. Specifically the episode "He's Alive":

That quote really sounds like something old Sidious would say.

Also, this moral of the story:

 

I had a good laugh at this. "Fire and fury like never dealt with before" kind of sounds like something Darth Maul would say.

It's been interesting to see, in light of the ST being finished, how much debate and conflicting opinions there's been about where people wanted the story to go after ROTJ, and how controversial some of the post-ROTJ story twists have been. Perhaps that's part of the problem Lucasfilm would've had to face no matter what; no way to please everyone.