PT What's Grievous' Actual Backstory?

I ask this because there have been two separate explanations for Grievous' cybernetics, both in the Expanded Universe and in The Clone Wars. Canonicity doesn't necessarily make any of them correct. To me, the real truth lies in the filmmakers' intentions, not what people decided after the fact. So while I can listen to arguments using these stories, I don't take anything other than the films as absolute gospel.

Anyways, there are some undisputed facts about Grievous' conception from George Lucas himself; his cybernetics were supposed to be a precursor to Darth Vader's. I believe it is here where his cough is initially explained to be a byproduct of faulty technology.

The Clone Wars shows that Grievous' enhancements were voluntary, but why would he intentionally subject himself to technology that would cause such damaging effects? When it comes to how extreme Grievous' robotics are, some areas go beyond enhancements, and seem like they're necessary for his survival (like his chest cavity).

I may be taking George's quotes too literally, but if he was another Darth Vader, it would only make sense that they resulted from horrific injury. Furthermore, I'd give more credence to the backstory as presented in Star Wars Visionaries, as these were presented by the same artists who worked on the film, including those who designed Grievous himself.

Also, while we may not come to definitive answer on this, I welcome as many quotes and facts from the filmmakers for Revenge of the Sith as possible.

 

I don't know but Grievous is awesome (second best character after Mace)!

 

Mace deserved a better death scene. Actually, he shouldn't have had a death scene. He should have been one of those Jedi alive after the Jedi Purge. But yea...

 

The origin in TCW is the origin, especially since the Grievous mini-series is no longer canon.

TFN: So what is the deal with General Grievous’ origin? There’s the first version with the shuttle crash where Dooku upgraded him and there’s the new one with him choosing to upgrade himself. Why the different versions?

Henry: George envisioned something different than what was created for the EU and Dave and I jumped at the chance to explore that. In my mind, the EU origin created a character that was twisted and bitter and very tragic, but not very fun. The great thing about Vader in A New Hope is, as soon as you see him onscreen, you want to boo him. He’s so over the top evil. Same with the Emperor. They are pure evil and they are fun — bad guys you love to hate! Well, until we know who Vader is. Anyway, knowing that poor old Grievous has this background as a noble warrior who was fighting for his people, then was sadly tricked by Dooku reduced him to a straight up pawn, who was played by the seppies, because he really wasn’t the master of his own destiny, he was more a product of Dooku’s evil machinations than his own pride and villainy. It was more in Grievous’ character (as created by George Lucas) to choose to upgrade himself, because he chose to sacrifice his ‘humanity’ for the power to become the greatest killer in the galaxy. He wasn’t able to do it via The Force, so he chose to make himself into a mechanical monster that dominated the most powerful beings in the galaxy, the Force users, the Jedi. Grievous is not a tragic character, he’s a cold blooded mass murderer, a classic old school villain (and different from Vader) in that he doesn’t have any redeeming characteristics. What kind of a vain egomaniac has statues of himself in his house? Maybe one who is trying to convince himself he did the right thing.

Dave: I tried to talk about this in the commentary I do online. Henry and I knew this would be a big one for EU fans. I tend to think of the Episode “Lair of Grievous” as a look more into the mind of Grievous. How you interpret the story depends largely on what backstory you like. If you believe Grievous was shot down in a shuttle by Dooku and put back together, I think that story is there, it’s just that Grievous has invented this new “story” of choosing his alterations. If you don’t believe in the EU version of the story or didn’t like it, then perhaps this new revelation that Grievous was a warrior whose lust for power made him choose to be altered, suits you better. Again a great many of the truths we cling to depend largely on our own point of view. Grievous was a great warrior in both stories, he was a Kaleesh in both stories, the major differences depend on what you believe about his past. In the end I have to say this, many die hard EU fans pick and choose the stories they think are canon based on what they like and what they don’t like. They read a novel they like it and it’s ‘in’, they don’t like it, and it’s ‘out.’ Well, we get our like and dislike in the EU directly from George and he created Star Wars, I have to say that’s a pretty big trump card. Regardless, much effort goes into trying to word things or shoot things so that the existing EU can remain, if only at times from a certain point of view.

--Heny Gilroy and Dave Filoni The Force.Net interview, 2009.

 

Edit: Double Post.

 

Great post. Canonicity is pointless to me because anything can be thrown out tomorrow without any consideration, but actual feedback from Lucas and people working around him is substantial.

While the Clone Wars microseries was "de-canonized", its events are still important to the Saga, hence why all of the major events were relayed to Tartakovsky directly from Lucas. This is what I mean when I say that filmmakers' intentions trump stories that are simply deemed official long after the fact. But I digress. If I'm not mistaken, the TCW and microseries Grievous don't have any retcons? I thought Grievous' backstory wasn't shown or anything in that series, he just came out of nowhere. If anything, the whole ending with his chest being crushed aligns well with the TCW version.

That seems like the most definitive answer from the high-ups, unless there's any earlier quotes that contradict it.

 

Not really. He spends the whole of TCW with a cough. Yet in the microseries, he has no cough until that moment when he's successfully kidnapped Palpatine and escaped Mace.

 

He always has a cough due to faulty cybernetics, but the chest injury further aggravates his condition, and he develops this heavy wheeze as well. It's been consolidated that he's already had the cough for a while now.

 

I didn't remember him cough once in the microseries - which was why I figured that TCW's version was a retcon of the microseries version.

 

At face value, it is an inconstancy; there's no way around that. But I don't consider it an active retcon in that they're trying to retell something that's already established. Grievous was the prototype for what we saw in ROTS and many changes made during production simply couldn't have been implemented in the show.

Then again, while the general events of the show are accurate, the details should not be taken at face value (i.e. Yoda and Mace taking down an entire droid army).

 

It's so ironic that Henry claims that Grievous isn't a tragic character, he's a mass murderer. Yet in the EU, Grievous was far more fearsome and was confirmed to have killed hundreds of Jedi (about 20 of these we got to see). In the current canon, Grievous has only been shown killing one Jedi, and is not as intimidating.

I am not trying to start Legends vs. Canon debate here, as both sides have their benefits. I just don't care for the backstory of Grievous mutilating his body to become a top notch warrior.

 

I like the idea of a 'multiple choice past' and the broad strokes - warlord, cyborg, Separatist - are constants. But he's tragic in the sense he willingly gave up his whole existence outside of fighting all for revenge...

 

I like the Legends version much better than the canon version. Him being a tragic character who was forced to become a cyborg, like an evil Robocop, is exactly what makes him endearing to me. That he was manipulated by Sidious, serves to foreshadow Anakin's own fall and rise to Vader.

 

In my canon, Grievous fell in love with a battle Droid named OOM 9. Unfortunately OOM 9 was cheating on him, so Grievous went postal and self mutilated. Count Dooku leaked photos of OOM 9 and R2 D2 to TMZ and Grievous was given a Droid body to exact his revenge on protocol Droid love

And the Jedi killing? Eh, everyone needs a hobby.

 

But the tragic part was that oom9 never cheated on Grievous, the "evidence" was just photoshopped images created by Dooku, since oom9 died at the battle of Naboo

 

And more tragic it was OOM 9s mother...

 

Exactly. At the time the mirco series was being done, Grievous did not have a cough. It was only when Lucas was battling a cold that he came up with the idea of adding it. Mace's parting shot in Chapter 25 was designed as a quick work around. Because TCW was created later on, it was decided right off the bat to have the cough.

But like you said, if you don't sweat the small stuff, then you'll have fun and can enjoy yourself. Something that they tried to make a point about in that interview. I tend to include the micro series since it is referred to with Ventress in the animated film and it at least gives us a bridge to ROTS since TCW was cancelled before it could get there.

That's because when Lucas allowed details of who Grievous was out to the publishing and animated divisions, not all of the details were revealed. So the writers jumped on the idea of Grievous being a Jedi killer. Lucas himself would state on the commentary that he didn't want him to be like the Fetts or Vader, but more of a slimy villain who ran from fights that he couldn't handle.

"One of the big issues behind Grievous was that I didn't want a big, powerful villain, I wanted a cunning, you know almost cowardly villain, who isn't super stronger, super powerful but at the same time, you know he's a good fighter but not ... everybody wants him to be bigger, stronger, more powerful than the other villains that we've had and keep ... you know going to the next level I wanted him to be slightly more like the Emperor, you know slightly more like the sleazy, behind-the-scenes kind of guy, that's why I set up the fact that he always runs at the end of every fight, he always gets away."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.

That's why in ROTS, he lets the Mangaguards fight for him and he doesn't really fight until he gets angry enough at Obi-wan to fight. Then he runs when the going gets tough. Stover saw this in the novelization which is why he had to work around it by saying that Obi-wan was the best choice because he was more balanced internally than the other Jedi. The EU only went by what was given to them and what they had interpreted the character to be. This was the downside of Lucas not being as involved as he was with TCW. Hence the animated interpretation was closer to what he had in mind.

 

I remember Lucas saying he added coughing to GG's character to hilight that becoming a cyborg in Star Wars isn't a upgrade at all, it is a downgrade. This is why I feel that Filoni's quote above about GG choosing to "upgrade" himself into a cyborg doesn't make sense. If it really was a upgrade you would think everybody who could afford it would do so, clearly in the films they don't unless they need it. Vader in the OT also displays how being a cyborg is a downgrade, he can only take his helmet off in a special chamber, he can't even see with his own eyes, etc.

 

Being a cyborg has both pros and cons, and why would you assume everybody could afford to do it? Didnt Grievous get these improvements by the CIS?

 

I think that Grievous' claim that his cybernetics are an improvement is just self-denial on his part. He wants to believe he's stronger now.

 

The Empire upgrades some of its functionaries - like Tseebo from Rebels - but this upgrade tends to endanger the personality.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/AJ^6_cyborg_construct

Lobot, in the Lando comic, was an example.

 

A machine body would make you stronger, but your health would be weaker which GG's chronic coughing suggests, yeah you can punch a dent into a spaceship hull, or strangle a man one handed, but you also live in pain , be more dependent, and poor health as a result. I think Lucas even said that Vader was rendered weaker in the force because of the removal of his limbs reduced his midi count. Now if Filoni adjusted the GG was a weakling and wanted a strong cyborg body no matter the "cost" would make it more sensible.

I don't assume everybody could afford it which is why I said "everybody who could afford it" ie the people with the wealth to do so would if it was a upgrade.

 

As Darth_Pevra likes to remind us - Lucas quotes don't matter any more - they can be retconned by the newcanon - and the novel Lords of the Sith says that Vader's strength in the Force grew instead of dropping, after ROTS - thanks to his growing mastery of the dark side.

 

True, but i think Grievous mostly cared about getting stronger no matter what, maybe he didnt care about the health issues as long as he got stronger-

Sorry about that, i misread it