PT Why did Palpatine save Anakin on Mustafar?

I think what Arawn means is that Palpatine indicates Plagueis could cheat death and create life, but not that he was the only one who could create life. The later line "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved" shows that only Plagueis knew how to do this, but creating life could have possibly been achieved by others.

 

I've heard of this theory before, and it is interesting to think about, but I don't think Palpatine created Anakin. Something that significant wouldn't have been subtly implied; it would have been a huge WTF moment, like when Darth Vader was revealed to be Luke's father. I feel like he was just trying to pique Anakin's attention by mentioning aspects of the Dark Side that he could most readily relate to.

 

I've heard that in an earlier script, Palpatine flat out tells Anakin that he created him and that Anakin should think of him as his father. To be honest, I can't imagine what else the line "he could influence the midichlorians to create life" is signifying otherwise. It works in the film as is though. If Lucas had made it more blatant it would have just felt like ripping off ESB, in my opinion.

 

Huh. Didn't know that.
It's something to think about... I guess we'll never know for sure unless it gets addressed in the new movies or the new EU.

 

One has to wonder if Palpatine saw the coupe that was coming. Palpatine betrayed his Master Darth Plaguis and therefore he knew treachery from an apprentice was inevitable (The Sith Code). Perhaps Palpatine saw that if Vader was injured and dependent on a suite to survive, he could be more easily controlled and thus kept from the traditional passing of the Sith mantle via usurpation and assasination. Of course, Palpatine was wrong in the end.

 

Nothing there about being the only one who could do it.

 

I think it was a mixture of both, "I'm impressed you're still alive after all this, Lord Vader" and "The only reason I'm saving you is because I need you as my attack dog."

Did he care? He must've had to care, as why else would he have spent the previous thirteen years grooming Anakin to be his potential successor when he could've simply used Maul as the attack dog while he pulled the strings from behind?

 

I got the impression that Maul's survival came as a surprise to him - in TCW and in the tie-in comics.

 

I wonder at times if Palpatine telling Anakin about Plagueis being able to influence the midi-chlorians to create life was a way of seeding doubt in Anakin's mind of his origins. If they can prove that Anakin doesn't have a father and that most likely he was created by midi-chlorians than Palpatine is suggesting that he, Anakin. could have been created by the Sith and not by the Force to be the Chosen One. Personally I would think it ironic if the Sith created the being that was prophesied to be their destroyer.

 

It's been noted that the Book of Sith at least hints at that possibility:

In the Darth Plagueis novel however, Plagueis's reaction is more panicky than victorious, when he finds out - since when he tried to create a being, nearly ten years before, he thought his attempt had failed.

 

I read somewhere that George Lucas verified that Darth Plagueis is Anakin's Creator/Father.

 

My interpretation of the Plagueis novel is that Anakin's conception was a counter-reaction of the Force to Plagueis's attempts to create life and Plagueis's and Palpatine's attempt to impose their will upon the Force so that Plagueis would have the power to do that. So, in a sense, Plagueis did succeed in creating life but only insofar as his actions led to the Force to create Anakin as a counter-reaction. The purpose of this counter-reaction was to re-balance the imbalance created by Plagueis and Palpatine attempting to impose their will on the Force in the first place so that Plagueis could create life.

As you can tell from that quote from the Book of Sith, Plagueis seemed to expect that his creation would somehow be his servant, but that was not at all the case. He never he even met Anakin, and from what goes down in ROTJ, it's clear that he is not a false Chosen One. He fulfills the prophecy and brings balance to the Force. Ultimately he is not an agent of the dark side. He fulfills the prophecy by returning to the light side.

So, I guess I do mostly agree with your interpretation, Lady_Misty. Anakin's conception came about as a result of Plagueis's and Palpatine's actions. Without them, he wouldn't exist. However, at the same time, Plagueis's analysis was off. Anakin ultimately wasn't an agent of evil, but instead was the Chosen One. (However, since both the Sith and Jedi seem to claim Anakin as their own, maybe that's why Anakin journey takes him from the light side to the dark side and back to light side again.)

BTW cool to see you again Lady Misty! Haven't come across you in posts for a while!

 

That's what Plagueis speculates, certainly:

Darth Plagueis,
page 433-436:

Dooku chose his next words carefully. "Qui-Gon returned from Tatooine with a former slave boy. According to Qui-Gon, the boy had no father."
"A clone?" Palpatine said uncertainly.
"Not a clone," Dooku said. "Perhaps conceived by the Force. As Qui-Gon believes."
Palpatine's head snapped back "You don't sit on the Council. How do you know this?"
"I have my ways."
"Does this have anything to do with the prophesy you spoke of?"
"Everything. Qui-Gon believes that the boy—Anakin is his name—stands at the center of a vergence in the Force, and believes further that his finding him was the will of the Force. Blood tests were apparently performed, and the boy's concentration of midi-chlorians is unprecedented."
"Do you believe that he is the prophesied one?"
"The Chosen One," Dooku amended. "No. But Qui-Gon accepts it as fact, and the Council is willing to have him tested."
"What is known about this Anakin?"
"Very little, except that he was born into slavery nine years ago and was, until recently, along with his mother, the property of Gardulla the Hutt, then a Toydarian junk dealer." Dooku smirked. "Also that he won the Boonta Eve Classic Podrace."
Palpatine had stopped listening.
Nine years old ... Conceived by the Force ... Is it possible?
His thoughts rewound at frantic speed: to the landing platform on which he and Valorum had welcomed Amidala and her group. Actually not Amidala, but one of her look-alikes. But the sandy-haired boy, this Anakin, swathed in filthy clothing, had been there, along with a Gungan and the two Jedi. Anakin had spent the night in a tiny room in his apartment suite.
And I sensed nothing about him.
"Qui-Gon is rash," Dooku was saying. "Despite his fixation with the living Force, he demonstrates his own contradictions by being a true believer in the prophesy—a foretelling more in line with the unifying Force."
"Nine years old," Palpatine said when he could. "Surely too old to be trained."
"If the Council shows any sense."
"And what will become of the boy then?"
Dooku's shoulders heaved. "Though no longer a slave, he will probably be sent to rejoin his mother on Tatooine."
"I understand your disillusionment," Palpatine said.
Dooku shook his head. "I haven't told you all of it. As if the announcement of having found the Chosen One wasn't enough, Qui-Gon discovered that the Trade Federation may have had the help of powerful allies in planning and executing the blockade of Naboo."
Palpatine sat straighter in the chair. "What allies?"
"On Tatooine, Qui-Gon dueled with an assassin who is well trained in the Jedi arts. But he dismissed the idea that the assassin is some rogue Jedi. He is convinced that the warrior is a Sith."

Ignoring the reactions of apprehensive residents and wary security personnel, Plagueis hastened along a plush corridor in 500 Republica toward Palpatine's suite of crimson rooms. He had planned to be at the Senate Building to hear Amidala's call for a vote of no-confidence in Valorum, which would strike the first death knell for the Republic. At the last moment, however, Palpatine had contacted him to recount a conversation he had had with Dooku. The fact that Qui-Gon Jinn had identified Maul as a Sith was to be expected; but Dooku's news about a human boy at the center of a vergence in the Force had come as a shock. More, Qui-Gon saw the boy as the Jedi's Chosen One!
He had to see this Anakin Skywalker for himself; had to sense him for himself. He had to know if the Force had struck back again, nine years earlier, by conceiving a human being to restore balance to the galaxy.
Plagueis came to a halt at the entry to Palpatine's apartment. Eventually, one of Queen Amidala's near-identical handmaidens came to the door, a vision in a dark cowled robe. Her eyes fixed on the breath mask.
"I'm sorry, sir," she said. "Senator Palpatine is not here.
"I know," Plagueis said. "I'm here to speak with the guest of the Senator. A young human boy."
Her eyes remained glued on the mask. "I'm not permitted—"
Damask motioned swiftly with his left hand, compelling her to answer. "You have my permission to speak."
"I have your permission," she said in a distracted voice.
"Now where is the boy?"
"Anakin, you mean."
"Anakin, yes," he said in a rush. "He's the one. Fetch him—now!"
"You just missed him, sir," the handmaiden said.
Plagueis peered past her into Palpatine's suite. "Missed him?" He straightened in anger. "Where is he?"
"Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn came to collect him, sir. I suspect that you can find him at the Jedi Temple."
Plagueis fell back a step, his thoughts reeling.
There was still a chance that the Council would decide that Anakin was too old to be trained as a Jedi. That way, assuming he was returned to Tatooine ...
But if not ... if Qui-Gon managed to sway the Council Masters, and they reneged on their own dictates ...
Plagueis ran a hand over his forehead. Are we undone? he thought. Have you undone us?

 

Thanks for going to the trouble of posting this! I can never find the passages when I look for them!

 

One of the advantages of quoting a lot, is that it gets to the point where frequently one doesn't need to retype the whole thing - one can just search the forum for the last time it was quoted.

 

I'll be damned if I can find it now, but I remember reading a quote where Ian McDiarmid himself describes this very scene as being the one instance where Palpatine actually shows a hint of tenderness. I even recall that the word "tenderness" was specifically used by him, though of course I could be mistaken in my recollection.

Once again, take it with a grain of salt. But I'd be ecstatic if someone knew what I was talking about. I think it might have been in a Star Wars Insider article a little bit after Episode III came out, but (again!) I'm not sure.

 

Hmmm. I would imagine that the fact of the matter is that Anakin, even in his beaten state was still the single best choice for a Sith that Palpatine had at that point. We just saw that the vast majority of the Jedi Order was wiped out, with just a few hinted at surviving. So they effectively diminished the talent pool for other potential Sith. My guess, and backed up in what we see in ROTJ is Vader was just a placeholder til something better came along, and that wasn't til Luke came to be.

 

He seemed very close to Anakin, Palps didnt seem that close to Dooku. Palps was interested in Anakin ever since the battle of Naboo. While the Jedi tried to mussel Anakin, Palps seemed to want to grant him the power he desired. Anakin told thing to Palps that he never told to Obi Wan.

 

Palpatine was aware that Anakin was chosen by the force to destroy the sith. So as long as Anakin is a sith, he wont destroy the sith. Palpatine knew better than to kill the chosen one and piss of the force. So he just kept Anakin under his control..The way he saw it, if Anakin survived being maimed and burned by a volcano,the force wanted him around

 

Maybe he wanted to pay his debt to Anakin. Since Anakin saved him from Mace Windu...

 

Intriguing thought Marco1907! What if that is the answer and not some diabolical scheme? If that is true, then it refutes that Sith have no honor.

 

Well, it makes sense that he would, considering that all the Jedi were wiped out at that point.

 

What a striking clear and awesome concise answer.

Just one rather odd and ironic thought of the humble mine:
Sidious was just fed up with apprentices who cared to much about being good looking and striking cool poses while neglecting the actual tenets and goals being imposed upon them by their master Sidious. While Vader with his maimed face was not inclined to cockish behavior anymore. And thus Vader could serve his Lord with a dedication not being spoiled by any eagerness of showing off with a handsome appearance or an ultimate coolness. Thus for Sidious he was even more valuable while being handicapped than as the almost perfect and smart looking Chosen One. (Irony off)

That doesn't mean, that he felt no tenderness, mercy or respect for Vader at the lava bank. But Sidious is not the kind of man who would allow such a spontaneous feeling to control his life or to put his previous plans upside-down. For him, Vader was a prize long yearned and struggled for, like Cushion's admirer said above. And Vader was simply Sidious' best choice to be the apprentice - second to none - except Sidious.

 

Hmm, I'm not so much into the ideas of immaculate conception or virgin birth. Please allow me some dreaming:

I can imagine Palpatine having made some medical experiments with slave-girls on Tatooine with the consent of the Toydorian slavemaster Watto there. Against a good credit-payment for the latter of course. Which can include that Anakins mom was made pregnant with a small contribution of Sidious/Palpatine via In-Vitro-Fertilization. Thus the perfect offspring-apprentice was created in the very same medical capsule where Vader was healed by Sidous' medical staff almost two decades later. And Sidious' affection would make even more sense.

And he wouldn't even have to care so much about his upbringing and education, since he got accustomed to brain-drain the Jedi-Order to get some new staff when needed. A cuckoo-egg indeed - he laid down into the Jedi-Temple.

And I wonder how terrified Luke would have been, when at the final showdown he would have realized, that there is not only his dad Vader, but also his Gramps Sidious around.