Why didn't the Jedi just go get Shmi before AOTC?

And I can agree with that assessment, because I have never tried to argue that their actions or in-actions are morally just in any way. I think that's the misunderstanding here. I am not trying to convince anyone that leaving Shmi in slavery is a good idea. In fact, the outcome upon her death in AOTC pretty much sums it up as one of the worst ideas in the history of the galaxy.

What I have done is to argue that their actions or in-actions can be explained within the story, from these characters' particular point of view. Doesn't mean that I agree with them. And the blame should be limited to Padme, Jar Jar, Obi-Wan and the Jedi Council, who are the only ones who know about Shmi. Boss Nass should be cut some slack.

I actually think it's great that main characters in a series can behave in a way that fans might feel is morally corrupt. Makes it much more interesting, from my point of view.

 

How could I forget that prophecy?

 

. I am not trying to convince anyone that leaving Shmi in slavery is a good idea. In fact, the outcome upon her death in AOTC pretty much sums it up as one of the worst ideas in the history of the galaxy.
Actually thats your best argument why she should have remained a slave. If she was still Wattos slave, she wouldnt have been out picking mushrooms from the evaporators, and wouldnt have been captured by the sandpeople. And 26 other Tatooine residents would still be alive.

 

Ouch.
Be careful when you flip the coin over to look at the other side.

 

Heh yeah, theres always a flip side. On the otherhand, if they'd freed her and took her off that rock, she wouldnt have been out picking mushrooms. And baby Luke would have been dumped off on someone else.

 

You haven't glossed over anything. I should have separated the two.

Every possible in-story explanation is a dead end, as noted in Nordom's post and every OU explanation doesn't make things any better.

From a story perspective, how do you write that? Or fail to, rather? Slavery was made a key point "in-dialog", when it served the conversation... yet that same issue was glossed-over during the transition between films. OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN: The concept/idea of "slavery" didn't bother Anakin when he went looking for his mother, he seemed genuinely more angry that she was sold, than surprised when told that "she had been freed". He didn't go looking to "free my mother", that wasn't his right. He went to help her, to save her. Because Anakin made no beef about slavery the Jedi don't look sooo arrogant, but they still look dumb. Padme is who gets the most at her feet.

The fact that Padme makes no comment during the scene is a terrible let-down. Poorly written.
I would have been satisfied if (on the way, or during) Padme had told Anakin: "I'm sorry, I should have done something to free your mother," or whatever. If she wasn't going to do anything about Shmi (clearly Qui Gon handled anakin's freedom) then why have her pipe-off about slavery in the first place? Poorly written. Or poorly planned, either way... the character is inconsistent in deed and action.

 

this was debated at some length in another thread last year. I can only offer the comments I gave then, which still sum up my own feelings on the subject.

regarding the jedi not freeing Shmi - had qui-gon lived, knowing his character and the connection he clearly made with shmi in episode 1 its hard to imagine he would have dismissed Anakin?s visions prior to AOTC with a simple "dreams pass in time". I certainly believe qui-gon would have allowed Anakin to return and help his mother (he understood the role she played in his life - "I tried to free your mother, ani...") but whether or not that would have solved the wider flaws that were already a part of Anakin?s character is another matter. remember too that Luke gets a sign of the future in ESB. he acts on it and suffers as a result. had Anakin refused to act on his visions he may never have known his mother was dead and certainly wouldnt have had to go through the trauma of watching her die. but like Luke, he gave in to the visions.

the Jedi want Anakin to cut all ties to his former life, and there is logic in that. but fundamentally it was the wrong thing to do. qui-gon on the other hand wants Anakin to retain links to his former life (that?s why he initially tries to free shmi as part of his bargain with watto). I think he realises it will be beneficial for Anakin in transition to have his mother by his side. he certainly does try to free her as part of the bargain but he's not going to jeopardise the deal by infuriating watto when Anakin his main priority (why he influences the chance cube). what else can he offer?

Regarding Padme's perceived lack of help - this is the dilemma she and most politicians even in our lives face. if you free one slave on compassionate grounds as a point of principal you must act and force an agenda to stop ALL slavery in the galaxy. its different for Anakin - he earned his own freedom. now padme may or may not have tried to do this in the period between Episode 1-2. a lot happens in that time. BUT its really outwith her constituency and she'd fall flat on her face if she tried. she'd be making a rod for her own back. first and foremost its a Tatooine issue and Tatooine has neither anything to do with Naboo nor the Republic. can you imagine how the Naboo people would respond if Padme were to use he political influence and funding to stop slavery in all non-republic-recognised systems? she would dig a political hole for herself if it was uncovered and begin a never-ending crusade that would also be seized upon by her opponents - questioning the loyalty she has for her own people. even if she did it in secret it would most likely be later exposed as a scandal. its up to Tatooine's own officials to end slavery or the Tatooine people to rise up and demand it - which Padme may or may not have campaigned for. but she certainly cant force it - I think America and its previous president are slowly learning the costs of trying to push whats essentially an idealistic agenda in zones where they are neither welcomed nor which they understand. another point would be to suggest that for every individual slave freed you're just making another one. do you think Watto didn't replace Shmi when he sold her to Cliegg? Admittedly nobody really knows how the whole slavery system works in Tatooine but there must be a domino effect of some sort (not sure that?s the right term but I?m sure you know what I mean)

one could easily ask why Anakin doesn't simply go back and free her at any point in the intervening 10 year period. you might reason that he is forbidden but there's nothing to say that padme is not forbidden constitutionally (as I reasoned earlier). yes she could have done it in secret (risking later exposure) but so could Anakin. remember his words to her - "I will come back and free you. I promise." its odd how padme gets grief here and not Anakin. regardless, shmi's words are "my place is here, my future is here." the matter is pretty much closed from there on. to put destiny back into the melting pot, its clear Anakin and shmi's

 

Again I do not understand this attitude of ?If you can?t help EVERYONE then you should not help ANYBODY?. If you saw a drowning man and you could easily help but you figure ?well I can?t help everyone that is drowning so I should just let him drown?.

Padme owed Smhi a personal debt, plus Naboo owed Anakin a lot. If she freed Smhi why would anyone on Naboo mind? If they knew the whole situation they would probably demand that Padme do something about Smhi. And why would anyone in the senate care? Freeing Smhi is a compassionate act and it also pays of a debt. Trying to smear Padme over this would just backfire on whoever is doing it. The republic has laws against slavery so clearly they do not like it.
Also what is it with this need to make a huge political thing over this? Padme can free Smhi with a minimum of fuss and no-one on Tatooine or in the republic would know.

The notion that if she frees Smhi then she MUST free the other slaves is false.

Consider, in AotC Padme knew that Obi-Wan was in danger but he was hardly the ONLY person in the galaxy in danger. By your logic Padme would never go to help Obi-Wan because she would say ?Oh I can?t help all those in danger so I?ll do nothing?. The movies disproves this reasoning

Given that Anakin was nine when he left he is not really in a position to help Smhi right off.
The Jedi however are and I think it very likely that Anakin would have asked them to help his mother. Since they did nothing it seems that they simply said ?No we will not help your mother and you are not allowed to help her either?. Imagine how a nine year old would react to that. His own mother is a slave and could be sold to anyone at any time. And this powerful group of people that are all about helping others and serving peace and justice, are content to leave your own mother to rot? I would imagine that would leave it?s mark on Anakin.
Both the jedi and Padme had the means and a motive to help Smhi but neither did anything, if anything they simply seemed to forget about her.

Regards
Nordom

 

My thoughts.

1) Qui-Gon saves the life of Jar Jar Binks or at the very least spares him suffering by telling Boss Nass Jar Jar owes him a life debt. Why? Because Jar Jar can be useful and it was the right thing to do. Later, after Shmi helps him out, he tries to free her and her son. He is only able to free her son at the current time but clearly believes freeing Shmi is the right thing to do. He doesn't break any Gungan or Hutt laws in his attempts. He works within the system and the only reason the attempt with Shmi failed is that he simply didn't have enough to barter with at the time. Oh wait, on second thought he did bend the rules by interfering with the chance cube... hmm. And I guess he did set it up to where he'd need a navigator to drive the bongo... hmm.

So why doesn't the Jedi Order free Shmi for her service to them? Attachment is somewhat of a weak answer ultimately. They didnt have to do it for Anakin, they could have done it as payment for Qui-Gon and Obi-Wans debt to her. They do not want Anakin to have any contact with her, yet they insist that she stays a slave and that Anakin knows she is still a slave. Which is more likely to get you to go seek out your mother? Knowing she's got a device in her that can blow her up or that she doesn't? There is no logical answer for the Jedi not to have freed her. The pros outweigh the cons here and the Jedi come across as morons. To me, that is a plot hole.

Also, there is Darth Maul. When Qui-Gon encounters this Sith Lord on Tatooine, he almost mows down Anakin and Qui-Gon assumes he is there for the Queen. If a Dark Lord of the Sith tracked you to Tatooine, wouldn't you think that maybe he could have tracked you to Shmi? Thus the possibility that Shmi is chopped up into little pieces in her slave hut with a note that reads "SURRENDER PADME." If you were investigating this Sith Lord, I would check back on Shmi and Watto. And while there, repay their debt to her by trading at the very least a bunch of high quality starfighter parts for her freedom. Can the Jedi Temple not afford these things?


2) The Naboo hold a debt to Anakin Skywalker for saving their planet. If they can throw a parade, they can afford to free Shmi Skywalker for Anakin in time for such a parade. He doesn't have to ever see her, just know that she is okay and now living on Naboo. That she no longer has to fear Hutts but instead Godzilla in the sea.

The other point that is often overlooked is that Queen Amidala personally holds a debt to Shmi Skywalker for sheltering her and feeding her. Not only this, but is it unfair to believe that because of this, Padme and Shmi are friends? You don't have to free Shmi for Anakin, free her because you do not wish her to be a slave after what she did for you. If Padme can afford to stay at a lake retreat, she can afford to buy Shmi out of slavery without using state funds.

Then there is the debt of Jar Jar Binks. General of the Gungan armies. He too was shelted by Shmi Skywalker and clearly his culture is all about repaying debts. Could the Gungans not have done something?



It's just a mess of complications that were overlooked.

 

Thanks for being more eloquent, Nordom & HLAS.
Your posts captured the essence of what I was trying to say when I coined it: "being glossed over".

 

I'm glad Nordom and HLAS answered this thread....Lord knows how many times I've countered those same arguments over the years in similar threads. The only reason for Shmi (watch your spelling, Nordom ) to remain on Tatooine is to be a major plot point for the story and turning point for Anakin. Ironically, the Jedi or Padme could have easily paid for Shmi's freedom and allowed her to remain on Tatooine where she could meet and marry Cliegg Lars, and we would still have the same outcome in AOTC - Anakin goes to Watto for information on his mother's whereabouts, which leads him to Cliegg, to find out she had been abducted. Sadly, she was completely forgotten about by everyone - including Lucas - at the end of TPM. "What about Shmi?" was the first question in my mind at that point as well. Some celebration of freedom that turned out to be.

 

Young Anakin's head must've been spinning, and not because he got a new haircut...

 

Can't blame young Anakin too much - he's doing what he's told. Older Anakin? Perhaps.

Padme and/or her parents.....indefensible.

 

So the Jedi couldn't have just set Shmi and the other slaves free? AreI mean they are the guardians of peace and justice, I don't think that they would let Shmi suffer to let Anakin just advance in training.


No, the Jedi could not have freed the other slaves. Especially since they were serving the Galactic Senate. And the Senate was not interested in involving themselves in the affairs of Outer Rim planets like Tatooine.


Padme owed Smhi a personal debt, plus Naboo owed Anakin a lot. If she freed Smhi why would anyone on Naboo mind?


No, but Watto would. He was already reluctant to free both Anakin and Shmi. In fact, he was unwilling to use both Skywalkers in the bet he had with Qui-Gon over the podrace. Qui-Gon couldn't force Watto to free both of them. The Toydarian was immune to the Jedi Mind Trick. One last thing . . . Watton had explosive devices installed in Anakin and Shmi's heads, in case they tried to escape.


Sadly, she was completely forgotten about by everyone - including Lucas - at the end of TPM. "What about Shmi?" was the first question in my mind at that point as well. Some celebration of freedom that turned out to be.

Why on earth would the citizens of Naboo be concerned over some slave woman back on Tatooine, when they had just won their freedom from the Trade Federation?

 

Regarding Padme's perceived lack of help - this is the dilemma she and most politicians even in our lives face. if you free one slave on compassionate grounds as a point of principal you must act and force an agenda to stop ALL slavery in the galaxy

everything needs a starting point,

Rome was not built in a day.

 

Because the Naboo, didn't win anything. Anakin did. He single handedly shut down the droid command ship. Sure there were other pilots, but that was ALL Anakin.


She was far too meddlesome for Palpatine's liking and without the help of THAT slave's son, Padme might not have lived long enough to become Senator.

 

I'm in agreement that GL just dropped the ball on this - since Shmi's death served the plot and she WAS free at the time of her death, this is all it would have needed - Shmi freed by SOMEONE and Shmi choosing to remain on Tatooine.

Such a simple, simple fix - next edition, maybe?

 

If they can throw a parade, they can afford to free Shmi Skywalker for Anakin in time for such a parade.
Yep, the cost of clean-up for that parade would probably have bought 10 slaves. (steps in ooze) And its not like Padme couldnt have used Shmi, the staffing at the lake retreat seemed sparse to me, heh.

 

"You listen to me, ANAKIN! Or have you forgotten that I own your mother?" -Prego and angry Padme

 

That's easy the Jedi don't really care about some slave women on some dead beat plant.

 

Freeing Anakin caused no problems whatsoever. Not to mention that not every action taken by the Jedi must be approved by the Senate.

As was brought up before, Padme could certainly bring more resources than a simple moisture farmer to pay for Shmi. "Freedom" doesn't necessariyl demand that she be "stolen" from Watto.

Dear lord, are you seriously asking that question?

These are the kinds of responses that really leave me shaking my head....

And as was said, this whole situation makes the Jedi look bad.

 

When I review this thread I must admit that I find the discussion really confusing. It seems to me that there are two or three separate issues being thrown together, and we argue not just different points but different issues. A lot of you seem to be discussing the moral and ethical rights and wrongs of the characters' actions and in-actions related to the concept of slavery, and then the quality of Lucas' plotting is thrown into the mix, like it would make a better film/series if the characters always did the morally and ethically right thing. Why shouldn't Padme make a bad decision or three?

That's what I don't get here. But I realize I'm the minority, and I'm just about unable to make an argument without being in danger of minimizing the immorality of slavery. That fact alone indicates to me that the discussion is more like two or three discussions and misunderstandings abound.

 

"then the quality of Lucas' plotting is thrown into the mix" --For me, that is the heart of the matter, AK. Everything else being discussed, is a direct result of the writing quality of the slavery plotpoint.

 

The arguments I have read on this thread make no sense whatsoever. How could anyone believe that the Jedi or a Queen/Senator from Naboo could end slavery on Tatooine is beyond me. That doesn't make any sense. In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if some fans actually knew what was going on in the story's plot lines.

You're criticizing Lucas' writing because he didn't give Shmi and Anakin the happy ending that you wanted. You're not speaking from logic. You're speaking from some longing for a happier ending.



Because the Naboo, didn't win anything. Anakin did. He single handedly shut down the droid command ship. Sure there were other pilots, but that was ALL Anakin.


So what? They're not going to concern themselves with freeing Anakin's mother. They couldn't if they tried.

 

Who said anything about: "ending slavery on Tatooine"? All I've seen is people talking about: "purchasing Shmi's freedom". Which would be no worse than "Qui Gon's gamble for Anakin's". What makes no sense is that no-one would even think of her situation after what Anakin did for the people and frogmen of Naboo.

And you do? Please... teach me, teach us all, master.

Um... there is no happy ending. Anakin becomes Vader. And with all the talk about slaves/slavery/transmitters et all onscreen, there is plenty of IU logic to go around. And plenty of stuff to question on a message board.

Qui-Gon's actions invalidate that assumption, he gambled for the boys freedom... and he cheated by influencing the outcome. Watto plainly stated that two slaves were worth more than a small vehicle. One look at Padme's wardrobe and we all know money/creds/ship parts ain't an issue for the Royal House of the Naboo. And so, by NOT concerning themselves with Shmi's freedom, they collectively look like a bunch of pompous nerfherders. From a certain POV, of course.