Why is pornography considered a degrading thing?

Jedi-Monkey, I would as quickly discourage the same behavior in women. In fact I think it bothers me more to see women treating men as objects, because their only defense for it is that men do it. As if two wrongs can ever make a right.

I realize it's already illegal for underage kids, I'm pretty much just saying it should stay that way. While I know you can't protect kids from reality, I think they should be allowed to maintain their innocence as long as possible. Call me an idealist or a sap if you want, cause I'm both.

 

Jedi_Xen, it seems to me that Monkey has been "spanking" a lot of people lately (more particularly me. He's pretty good at flaming people, I'd say). I have no remorse for opposing him. Believe me, there is little doubt that he will be back whenever he has a chance to try and rip me a new one.

 

I don't think Jedi_Monkey was ever advocating selling pornography to kids, and I didn't see him flaming anyone, either--and I can spot a flame at 100 yards.

Well, obviously, Monkey will have to answer for himself -- but I took that as a rant against organized religion, not against spirituality in general.

That's also the way I took it. I am also not a fan of organized religion, even the organized version of paganism--too many arbitrary rules. I do, however, believe in a Supreme Being. I wasn't offended at all by what Monkey said, nor did I think it was a smack against everyone who isn't an atheist.

 

I wonder...

Do you suppose a Supreme Being Who put us here would never wish or attempt to reach out to us?

 

I'm sure He and She do quite often, but what does that have to do with this topic?

"Reaching out to us" does not imply "telling us what to do."

 

Perhaps not; yet how would we know how to notice said Supreme Being and how to respond without Him/Her telling us how to?

 

I think each person's experience is different as far as noticing the Supreme Being, and as far as responding--I don't need to be told how to respond to someone. I talk to my Higher Power the same way I talk to anyone else.

 

I think we're so far off course that the current discussion bears no resemblence to the original one.

 

I'll be glad to get back to it--I just thought The_Fireman deserved an answer to his question.

 

Indeed we are.

anakin_girl, so is this Supreme Being a figment of your imagination that you can shape to your will, or is It a very real and specific Being? And on what you do base this?

 

The Great Creator is a very real and specific being with both masculine and feminine aspects. He/She exists as a friend, however, not as a parent figure, as the Christian God appears to exist. I base this on my own experiences with Him/Her.

 

Fireman this is not the right thread for this, this is a thread dealing with pornography. Take this topic to a religion thread that exists. I dont mean to play moderator but we have enough religion threads to turn this one into such a debate.

 

While I know you can't protect kids from reality, I think they should be allowed to maintain their innocence as long as possible.

Interesting that you phrase it that way.... Because I don't recall any point at which I might not have been "allowed" to maintain my "innocence" as a child. Truth is, this thing you're calling innocence, I didn't particularly have any use for -- innocence seems to equal ignorance, which is something I have always hated. I like to know about things. I wanted to learn all about sex and the human body. I wanted to know what naked girls looked like. I don't recall any point at which I would have been made uncomfortable by learning about sexuality; I eagerly embraced the knowledge. No "innocence" was or ever could have been taken from me, because I wanted to learn.

Now if you say you want to protect kids from the world, then I'll accept that, because protection is something many people don't want and something often imposed upon them against their will. But I do take issue with your phrasing of "allowed to maintain their innocence," because that implies that naked and sexual images are something forced upon children that causes them to lose their "innocence" against their wills. In many cases, that's just not so.

-Paul

 

Very well, Xen. Thank you for answering my questions, anakin_girl.

 

No "innocence" was or ever could have been taken from me, because I wanted to learn.

Powerful stuff. Well said in the extreme, and I agree with every word. If this was the Lit forum, I'd hand you an award. But it isn't, so oh well.

While I know you can't protect kids from reality, I think they should be allowed to maintain their innocence as long as possible. Call me an idealist or a sap if you want, cause I'm both.

You're an idealist and a sap.

I wish I had enough hope and faith to cling to such emotions, as well. Truthfully, I perceive this kind of a mindset as a sure sign of weakness. If that is true, then I wish I had been born a weak man. Alas, I have not. I have been strong both physically and mentally. I have clung to science and logic as my way of finding truth. Neither, it appears, shall offer me comfort in this mortal coil. Logic is quite, quite irrelevant to the mind of a teenager, however articulate or erudite.

 

Anakin_Girl,

Again, Monkey said this; The very nature of religion contradicts rationality. It's basic precept is to believe in something there is no evidence to support. To me that is not just talking about organized religion because even if you don't prescribe to a church of any kind, you can still believe in God. From the way Monkey worded it here, he is saying that believing in something there is no evidence to support...contradicts rationality. In short, he basically made himself totally closed minded to people who believe in God because he thinks we are irrational.

Monkey has no credibility in my sight.

Edit:
Oh, and BTW, here is what he said about porn and kids:Sigh. Another one with the "It messes up kids" argument. This is only because adults give them a reason to feel ashamed about it. If more adults would grow the hell up and realize there's nothing wrong with this stuff other than what has been pounded into people's heads by religious fanatics and such, then they would stop harming their kids with the same silly ideas. Then we would have a society more well-adjusted and more open-minded, and none of this would be a problem anymore.

and

But I do think we go WAAAAAYYYYYYY overboard when it comes to kids. We wanna "protect" them from everything until they grow up so sheltered that they cannot even care for themselves because the world frightens them. The world that we have shielded them from.

That sounds like he's advocating that we shouldn't shelter kids from porn. Well, I can only pray that he never has a child because I would fear for that child's wellfare. It's one thing to teach a child about sex and how serious sex is, but it's another thing altogether to show that child porn as a teaching tool about said subject. Talk about giving them a bad idea of what sex is all about.

IMO sex is about bringing a man and woman closer together in a marriage relationship. It is not an ugly thing in the least bit, but a beautiful thing. Porn makes it a trivial thing that has no real meaning other than to satisfy your immediate fantasies and desires. Kids should be sheltered from it because if they aren't, their view of sex will be totally altered from what makes it beautiful. It will become nothing more than a trivial pastime and the special meaning of sex will have been thrown out the window, not to mention their negatively altered image of women. I agree with serendipity when she said ...porn encourages the objectification of women, but that can be directly linked to violence.

 

That sounds like he's advocating that we shouldn't shelter kids from porn. Well, I can only pray that he never has a child because I would fear for that child's wellfare. It's one thing to teach a child about sex and how serious sex is, but it's another thing altogether to show that child porn as a teaching tool about said subject. Talk about giving them a bad idea of what sex is all about.


You're taking away the wrong thing from what he said. What he's saying is that we're sheltering kids from activities that would help them let out their aggressive tendencies. That is all he's saying. He's not advocating showing a child some porn. And we do shelter kids, for males we pretty much cut off their testicles nowadays and for females we treat them like they're dolls.

Would you say this assessment of how we raise children is wrong?


In middle school we played dodge boll, can't do that now. In elementary school we were allowed to play cops and robbers (with our fingers posed like guns! The horror!). I used to have a cap gun that looked like a real gun. I owned Tonka trucks that were made of metal. And we were taught humpty dumpty and all of those other nursery rhymes that are being banned by some teachers. None of that stuff is around now. We have ORANGE cap guns, dodge ball is played with those sissy, pansy fluffy balls, elementary school kids can be suspended for playing cops and robbers. And now all of the toy trucks are plastic!

There are many other examples of how sheltered our children have become, but those are the most obvious and ridiculous.

 

In middle school we played dodge boll, can't do that now. In elementary school we were allowed to play cops and robbers (with our fingers posed like guns! The horror!). I used to have a cap gun that looked like a real gun. I owned Tonka trucks that were made of metal. And we were taught humpty dumpty and all of those other nursery rhymes that are being banned by some teachers. None of that stuff is around now. We have ORANGE cap guns, dodge ball is played with those sissy, pansy fluffy balls, elementary school kids can be suspended for playing cops and robbers. And now all of the toy trucks are plastic! There are many other examples of how sheltered our children have become, but those are the most obvious and ridiculous.

Well, just to start off, I don't see that in the schools around here but maybe it is true in your area. If you are right about this concerning some schools, I do agree that it is ridiculous.

However it still sounds like Monkey was inferring that porn is ok for kids and that it will help them not be afraid of sex and all. If I'm wrong, then let Monkey deny it. But from the way he made that comment in its original context, we weren't talking about violence, we were talking about porn.

Here is what was said exactly:
Serendipity said: Pornography does objectify women. Of course it's their choice to do that. I'm not campaigning for making porn illegal. I personally don't care what other adults do (as long as it's consenting of course). However, it really does mess up kids

Monkey said in response: Sigh. Another one with the "It messes up kids" argument. This is only because adults give them a reason to feel ashamed about it. If more adults would grow the hell up and realize there's nothing wrong with this stuff other than what has been pounded into people's heads by religious fanatics and such, then they would stop harming their kids with the same silly ideas. Then we would have a society more well-adjusted and more open-minded, and none of this would be a problem anymore.

That sounds like he thinks kids should be shown porn because there's nothing wrong with doing so. This I wholeheartedly disagree with.

 

That sounds like he thinks kids should be shown porn because there's nothing wrong with doing so.

no, i think he's just saying that there's really nothing wrong with kids seeing porn, because there's nothing wrong with porn. he's not advocating parents sitting kids down and actively showing them porn. it's the difference between saying that a kid finding his dad's Hustler by accident isn't really a big deal at all, and saying that mom and dad should sit the kids down and say "OK, now we're going to watch a very special movie called Rump Humpers 23 so that you know what sex is like." those are two totally different things.

 

Well, whatever he said, I think that kids should be protected from seeing porn. It is damaging to their views on sex.

 

Well, whatever he said, I think that kids should be protected from seeing porn. It is damaging to their views on sex.

the idea that sex (and depictions thereof) is something that kids need to be protected against is much more damaging to kids views on sex than almost any porn could be.

 

No, not hardly. I think rapists should be castrated with dull butterknives.

One question Anikin_Girl how do you Castrate a woman Rapist ?

 

the idea that sex (and depictions thereof) is something that kids need to be protected against is much more damaging to kids views on sex than almost any porn could be.

As I said earlier, sex should be taught to children in a mature manner by their parents (the age for this education depends on the child, their maturity level, and the parent's judgement on when it is appropriate to teach them about sex. Some kids will obviously need to learn about it earlier in life than others, depending on their circumstances). Porn, on the other hand, is damaging and kids should be protected against its negative influences.

 

Porn, on the other hand, is damaging and kids should be protected against its negative influences.

you feel that porn is damaging, and want to keep your kids from seeing it. as much as i disagree, that's basically your business. however, i don't feel the same way. where do you get the right to "protect" my kids from something that i don't feel they need to be protected from, especially while you're asserting your own right to raise your kids without interference from myself and my beliefs?

 

So are you saying that television should go uncensored and porn should be free to be viewed by all? Even kids? If so, I'm glad that you aren't the one making the laws in this world. If you want your kids to be corrupted by porn, go ahead and buy the Playboy channel and sit your kids down in front of it and let them enjoy. As much as such an attitude sickens me, you have your rights as a parent. But that doesn't give you the right to make TV uncensored and to make the rest of us live by your standards. Public television should be "family friendly" and if you want porn, go buy the channel that shows it. Free TV should be viewable by all with no worries about seeing harmful television like porn.