Why is pornography considered a degrading thing?

Did you say something, Jedi-Monkey?

 

So because you own a porn shop, we should all listen to you and change our views?

Interesting. Sorry, but your claims to authority on this issue don't hold water.

 

That's not the issue. The issue is can he supply me with some of his products cheap?

 

And that one guy with the wiping ass joke, your just down right sick. I mean come on, i don't even go that low you poor, demented, gay man. I mean come on, just because you enjoy the male reproductive system and ass gives you no right to stoop that low!!!!

Yep I knew it, youre 12. You show all the ignorance of the average 12 year old. First off you cant go that low, because you havent reached the intelligence level needed to get that low, instead you call everyone else moron's, retards, and "Gay man" *LOL* boy I bet you racked your brain thinking those up? Did it hurt little dingleberry? Do you need to sit down and rest for a while? Well you go ahead and do that.

Secondly, no Im not gay, quite the opposite. I have nothing against gays, Im just not one. I find it kind of funny that you would think it is an insult. Obviously youre a little immature dingleberry bigot.

Now your trying your best to work up an insult in that brain, but things like moron, and "gay man" just wont work. You better go lay down before you hurt yourself.

*LOL* amatuer

 

Mortimer_Snerd and Jedi-Monkey: Brilliant posts my friends.

France is a very beautiful place full of art and music and culture the likes of which religious right wing conservative types are incapable of comprehending...but they hate art anyway so I guess it doesn't matter.

Off-topic but yep. I lived in France for a bit and loved it. So they're not sheep who blindly follow whatever we Yanks do--they deserve to be condemned for it?

But the real culprit here is the schools, and the narrow-minded weanies who won't let them teach proper sex education.

No kidding. I shudder to think that the only advice I can give a kid is "keep your legs crossed" when I already know good and well that particular kid won't do it.

You must not live in America, because I don't think "less repressed" really qualifies here right now. Especially not with the meathead in office at this time.

Seriously.

More later--must go to work.

 

So because you own a porn shop, we should all listen to you and change our views?

Interesting. Sorry, but your claims to authority on this issue don't hold water.

I'm no sure he claimed to any authority, he just pointed out that there's no rational argument against it. This rubbish about 'more rape! More kids! The end of the world!' and dismissing rationality is not exactly a productive argument, is it?

Oh...

 

What I'm really getting out of this topic is that there's a large, untapped market for Chrisitan-oriented pornography. Now I don't mean regular porn dressed up superficially with crosses and other Christian symbolism. That's been done for a long time and doesn't reflect the values of Christianity.

What I'm thinking of would have three main requirements:
1. The participants would be married to each other.
2. The sex would be real acts of love, not scripted performances.
3. The intent would not be to generate lust in the viewer, but to teach true Christian sexual practice and inspire the viewer to love by seeing positive, morally sound examples of the physical expression of love between man and woman.

True Christian porn would provide the viewer greater insight into the way God intends him/her to use his/her sexual facilities in a manner pleasing to Him.

As fundamentalist Christianity gains ground every day, the market for Christian-oriented pornography will surely manifest itself in a profitable manner to those who recognize the unique needs of the Christian consumer.

 

being the manager of a porn shop

This is all I had to read to realize what your view on this issue was going to be. Can't go against something that's paying the bills, can we?

 

Woah. Lots of stuff to read since I last checked in this thread.

Rather than try to respond to everyone's question/accusation/whatever directed toward me, I will just try to make another statement of my thoughts and feelings on the subject and on what I have read in general (which I suppose is really about as good as you can get on an online forum like this. I mean do any of us really expect to change anyone's mind here? ... Nah).

I have read all of your posts and one thing comes to mind. Each of us has said something about how "you are just giving your opinion and there is no proof!". well, most social issues are not really going to be scientifically proven IMO. IMO porn is one of the greatest causes for the breakdown of the family. IMO when the family breaks down, society breaks down. Am I wrong in this, not in my opinion or the opinions of millions of other people who have Christian values such as myself, but that still doesn't matter to any of you. So can I prove this through science? Probably not, although if I had the desire to take the time to research this for you I could probably make a strong case. I'm just not going to do it because, heck, it's just not worth the trouble.

On a side not, I guess that's why a democracy is so important. What the majority feels is right or wrong is generally what the laws accept as such. That's why you wont find your porn on public airwaves (for the time being at least. I, for one, will keep fighting to keep it off the public airwaves but to each his own I guess). I do believe that as society makes more and more concessions to the harmful things of this world (porn, the trivialization of sex, drugs, and etc) it only speeds the fall of mankind.

I would like to direct something to FID. Thanks for looking at my articles, which were really just found with a simple google search. (It's not like I have taken the proper time to research this and give you the kind of studies that you want. I do know they exist because I have seen them before but it will take forever to find them and I'm not entirely certain that it is worth taking the time to locate them and post them on this thread. Will it do any good? Probably not.) If there's one thing that I suppose I can make a change of heart in, it's this. I will grant that it is wrong for me to "push" my beliefs on other people. I don't feel that I have really done that here (my main message is that I believe porn should be kept out of the public television and off of public advertisements. If you want porn, go to your public porn shop or online to get it or go buy the porn channels on Cable. But don't force it on the public by putting it on free public television.) but some of you have taken my statements as being such. If that is the case, I apologize. Just remember that to claim that there is nothing wrong with putting porn on public television is as much a push of your beliefs on me as my statement about how porn should be banned altogether is a push of my beliefs on you. So don't accuse me of something that you are committing yourself. I'm not saying all of you have done this but some have. Oh, one last thing FID, I want to give a personal suggestion. I know you hate God and Christians and all that jazz, but rather than simply dismiss someone's statement about God as being ignorant, why don't you try to see things from their point of view (and accusing them of being "brainwashed" or "not able to think for themselves" does not count as trying to see it from their point of view.) Many religious people are VERY intelligent and just because they say that they believe in God and sometimes make decisions based on that belief does not make them a moron. That's just a little friendly advice to you and everyone else that flame God fearing people.

Oh, someone back there was accusing me of giving false statistics and then they gave some statistics of their own. Just out of curiosity, where did you get your statistics? You accuse me of pulling my numbers out of the air or something but you never gave so

 

Did you say something, Jedi-Monkey?



So because you own a porn shop, we should all listen to you and change our views?

Interesting. Sorry, but your claims to authority on this issue don't hold water.

First, I made no such claims to authority. I did nothing more than present my perspective. You would be quite foolish to change or form your views based on listening to just me, or anyone else. Apparently this has already happened once, and I don't think you want to repeat it, do you?

being the manager of a porn shop

This is all I had to read to realize what your view on this issue was going to be. Can't go against something that's paying the bills, can we?

Maybe you should try reading the whole thing, if you haven't. So far your first assumption is wrong. I have been speaking out against labor unions for over 15 years, even while working for them. Because I do have to earn a living, but that won't interfere with what I consider right and wrong. And I will speak out against what I feel is wrong no matter what.

Am I the be-all and end-all of knowledge when it comes to the porn industry? No, I have not claimed that, and I know it's not true. Do I know more about it than the average person? Yes, I do, because I get paid to know more about it. Do I have a better idea what kind of people we get as customers? Yes, I do, because once again, it's my job to know. Do I know everything about it? No. But I do know more than the people who only pay attention to the religious and fem-nazi propoganda against it.

I will grant that it is wrong for me to "push" my beliefs on other people. I don't feel that I have really done that here (my main message is that I believe porn should be kept out of the public television and off of public advertisements. If you want porn, go to your public porn shop or online to get it or go buy the porn channels on Cable. But don't force it on the public by putting it on free public television.) but some of you have taken my statements as being such. If that is the case, I apologize. Just remember that to claim that there is nothing wrong with putting porn on public television is as much a push of your beliefs on me as my statement about how porn should be banned altogether is a push of my beliefs on you.

There's one little problem with this. If seeing porn on TV is pushing someone else's beliefs on you, then the networks showing religious programming is forcing someone else's beliefs on me. Every Sunday morning on the free, public channels and the networks, there is nothing but religious programming, which I find highly offensive. I don't believe in this stuff, so why is it being forced on me? It should be on some pay cable channel so if people want it, they can go get it, and leave the regular programming alone so I can watch something I consider decent.

Also, on another note, someone mentioned, I'm not sure if it was here or in one of those articles vezner supplied, but someone mentioned something about the property values going down and crime going up. I can say that in my case at least, the complete opposite has happened. The land where my store sits has tripled in value in the 2 1/2 years the store has been there. And crime? The police have been to the store exactly THREE times since it has been open. And all three times it was to remove religious protestors from the parking lot. That's the only crime we have had.

 

There's one little problem with this. If seeing porn on TV is pushing someone else's beliefs on you, then the networks showing religious programming is forcing someone else's beliefs on me. Every Sunday morning on the free, public channels and the networks, there is nothing but religious programming, which I find highly offensive. I don't believe in this stuff, so why is it being forced on me? It should be on some pay cable channel so if people want it, they can go get it, and leave the regular programming alone so I can watch something I consider decent.

There's a difference between channel surfing and seeing a flash of a minister speaking and seeing a flash of two people naked and/or having sex. I don't agree with TV evangelisists but it is something that a child can see a flash of on the screen without having their innocence taken away. One is nothing more than seeing a person speak and the other is seeing something indecent that underage children should not be able to view. Like I said, if you want your porn go ahead and put it on television that must be paid for. That way I can avoid it without having to become a hermit and lose the ability to watch TV completely. Heck, I wouldn't mind seeing the news every now and then you know.

I'm surprised that you are supportive of porn being on public TV. Don't you only get your money if people pay for it?

BTW, I seriously doubt that it will ever be on public TV anyway. So this whole arguement is really pointless.

 

Wow, you get porn on public TV?

Seriously though, what /real/ damage (I don't mean theories, actual examples) is it going to do? Make them ask their parents about sex? Make sex less of a taboo? Make everyone far more comfortable about it?

(I don't mean that as a sarcastic challenge, I'm actually interested.)

 

I think that kids should be taught the "facts of life" by their parents on not by the TV. I for don't have cable, nor do I ever intend on getting it. As long as public television remains family friendly, I will at least be able to have that in the home. But again, the chances of having the Playboy channel appear on public TV for free are about as high as having FID vote for Bush in the upcoming election.

On a side not, I can't believe some of you actually think that porn isn't harmful to kids that are in their teens or even younger?! I'm starting to wonder about some of the Star Wars geeks that post in the Senate. Thank goodness public opinion is very different from the average opinion of the people who post in this thread. Of course most of you are probably teenagers yourself and viewing porn is probably one of your favorite "extra curricular activities". Am I right?

 

Vez, I wasn't "mad" about your sig, I just thought it was another typical example of the ignorance that tends to follow propaganda. France-bashing is the latest, most vibrant example of that ignorance. As a well comedically phrased statement, I have no problem with it. I think I'll add something similar to my sig...without the emoticon.

 

I don't agree that they have an active interest in it, no, but I just don't see how it's so 'harmful'.

And no, it's not one of my favourite activities.

Actually, is a 19 year old still a teenager?

 

I think it's harmful because it trivializes sex, when kids should be learning about how serious sex is. Sex is more than just a fun activity because it is also a procreative power. IMO sex is something that should be special between two very committed individuals who want to have something very special between each other that will be shared with no one else. Thus I believe it should not be done until you are married.

If you have a baby it is a serious responsibility and most teenagers that I know are definately NOT ready for that responsibility. Heck, I'm 25 and I still think that child raising is one of the most difficult jobs that you can have. Teenagers for the most part just don't have a clue about how serious and difficult it is.

 

Fair enough, but we are moving to a more liberal attitude towards it. Just because sex is between two people who /don't/ love each other, I personally see nothing wrong with a responsible, casual sexual relationships.

I disagree, but I do respect your view.

 

Fair enough.

 

Woah...I think we just came to amicable agreement in the Senate...

[image=http://www.greaterthings.com/News/FreeEnergy/newstuff/images/hell_freeze_300.jpg]

 

to answer the thread question:

religion.

 

In response to cheese_boy:

LOL!! Nice pic!

 

There has been pornography almost as long as there have been people. It seems perfectly natural for us to be stimulated by these images, and I don't think that is something that we should feel remotely ashamed of. I think it is fascinating to see how attitudes towards pornography ebb and flow with time, and vary from culture to culture.

Explicit images were found on the walls of Pompeii that scandalized some of those who were excavating the site. How many works of art have included images of naked men, or more usually women, the nudity "excused" by the artistic context - nymphs, gods, godesses etc. It was socially acceptable to look at these images as art, whilst seeming to deny their obvious eroticism.

With photography what was once confined to paintings or drawings found a new lease of life, and then again with the advent of film, and more recently with the internet. We might as well get into a moral panic about breathing, it is just as much a part of our make up.

Certainly I'd agree that it is best to shield children from it until they are old enough, but that doesn't mean that adults should be denied the pleasure. Programmes on British TV available to everyone can sometimes be quite explicit, but it is understood by broadcasters that scenes of a sexual nature should not be shown until after the 9pm "watershed". The more extreme the material is, the later it must be shown. At this time of night parents must take responsibility for their children's viewing. The system generally treats us like the adults we are, and it seems to work pretty well.

 

Vezner, you didn't reply to my post. You earlier said rape, aids cases, and teen pregnancy were on the rise. As I pointed out and will point out again, that's FALSE. These things have been declining drastically since the early 90s, interestingly enough around the time the internet was becoming popular.

Rape cases have declined 60% since 1993.

Aids cases have also been on a SHARP decline since 1993.

Teen pregnancy cases have declined 28% since 1990.

So the whole basis for your argument is FALSE, it's NOT destructive to society and we have statistics to prove it. Sexual repression is destructive to society.

 

I actually did respond to you but I guess you missed it. I didn't remember your name afterall and didn't care enough about your accusation to go find it, but here is what I said:

Oh, someone back there was accusing me of giving false statistics and then they gave some statistics of their own. Just out of curiosity, where did you get your statistics? You accuse me of pulling my numbers out of the air or something but you never gave sources for yours. Just wanted to address that. BTW, even if your stats are correct and things have dropped since the early 1990s, does that mean that they have dropped since, oh say, 1950? No. Why? Maybe one reason is because porn wasn't as easy to come by back then and stong family values hadn't taken as much of a beating at that point as they have now. Just a thought.

 

I recently had this great idea, and the more I think about it, the more sense it makes.

You see, life is hard. It really is. This whole living thing is one of the most difficult endeavors I've undertaken, second only to marriage. I mean, we have all kinds of pressures on us, societally, politically, financially, spiritually, etc. There's always people out there with opposing views on something. In fact, there is absolutely nothing that absolutely everyone agrees on. It's very difficult to live your own life, and I think many of you will attest to that.

I used to be a conservative Christian like some of you. I went to church, prayed regularly, argued with people on subjects like this one, generally taking the opposing side. The idea occurred to me when I was debating a former JCer (who I haven't seen around in years) about birth control. At the time, I was staunchly against it because it went against my religion. Anyway, she told me that it wasn't right for me to impose my views on her, and I thought about that a little. I responded saying that my views are mine, and they are garnered from my life experiences. Your views are yours based on your life experiences. While I was at the time a firm believer in the idea of absolute morality, it occurred to me that there is really no possible way to be absolutely 100% certain that my moral code was the right one. All I knew was that it worked for me in my experience, but hers was different, and it had the same probability of being the right one. That's where this idea stemmed from, and from that point, I have lived my life by this idea. It has become a central tenet in my overall belief system, and I still hold to it to this day.

At this point, I'm sure you're thinking, Ok, NGL, what is this grand life-changing idea? Please tell me, for I don't think I can stand anymore of your rambling. I must know so that I can either live my life just like yours or tell you to cram it because you're wrong. Please tell me, NGL, please!

It's really quite simple. In fact, I'm not really the first to come up with it. Plato hinted at it ~2400 years ago.

Shut up, NGL, and get to the point.

Ok, here it is:

You live your life and let me live mine.