ST Why Snoke IS Darth Plagueis

That is an issue until you consider that neither Palpatine or Vader were able to sense Yoda or Obi-Wan for over two decades. Vader only sensed Obi-Wan once they were less than 100 feet from each other. I think any well trained Force user has the ability to hide their presence from other Force users if they choose to.

 

I guess it's possible as Palpatine isn't omnipotent. What I'm getting at is that the Empire almost has exclusive rights on force sensitives and with the resources they've got and the planets they've conquered, I'd imagine it would be extremely difficult for someone as high-profile as Plagueis to evade their presence for too long. It's also possible that Plagueis was more advanced in the dark side than Sidous and clouded their minds as Palpatine did to the Jedi. However, this argument is flawed because the Jedi knew they were being deceived and weakened by the dark side (quotes from Mace Windu and Yoda throughout PT confirm this) so if Palpatine even believed he was being clouded/dampened in the force, he'd go after the source with all his might.

 

But they didn't know that Palpatine was the source, even when he was literally a few feet away. Palpatine even didn't sense Luke's presence with the Rebel strike team.

As for the possibility of Palpatine overlooking Plagueis's survival, he has a history of being overconfident: he failed to make sure that Maul stopped being a threat, and he didn't sense Vader's struggle with the light in ROTJ.

 

Any reasonable person is about as subjective as it gets; I think you are justifying your own belief to yourself with all of this slanting.

No one said ANYTHING about a different key making a different song, so I don't know where you pulled that from. No one said they were "unrelated pieces of music," you are creating your own argument.

It is not similar enough to be certain that it is the same piece, especially given it is the same composer and the same mood/circumstance; your comparison to the SW theme is a massive fail. There are a million other explanation even for its similarities; both being in a master/apprentice dark side situation where master was controlling/manipulating apprentice. The scene in ROTS was not even about Plagueis; that story was a vehicle for manipulating Anakin. Palp never even had any intention of following through with what he was telling Anakin about Plageuis; it was empty rhetoric.

I like the way it is painted that we must intertwine the 2 because of similar music, and they MUST be about Plageuis, but the whole bit about the Vader theme being playing at the end of AOTC is roundly ignored; that was a scene that was definitely NOT about Vader, and they played music that was DEFINITELY his. If your premise is that SW wouldn't play the same theme around a different subject, your premise falls apart right there.

BTW, record companies have actually tried to sue artists for plagiarizing there own music in circumstances where the record company owned the artist's old music, and the artist released something new that was very similar. Those lawsuits have always failed because the artists have a way of sounding like themselves, it's really not a revolutionary concept that takes a genius to understand. I think some people are projecting with the pedantry bit.

 

No it isn't, and no I'm not. I think you're being unreasonable and quite petty and butthurt.

Er, YOU talked about music being transcribed and broken down to reveal differences. So unless you don't understand what you're talking about, or you don't understand what I'm talking about, you're being rather dishonest here.

It is a piece of sound design that was, until ep7, unique to that one opera scene in the whole saga. Just because your battered old ears can't discern it doesn't make my comparison to a more obviously varied theme a 'massive fail' as young people ten years ago might have said.

Cool, lets hear the other 999,999 then. I'll wait. I agree with this, by the way, but I think it's a deliberate callback. It has to be, or JW is a hack.

You claim to know the mind of Palpatine! Your name IRL must literally be George Lucas. It's an honour to meet you, sir!

Why don't you want to address to problem of diegesis?

I like the way you accuse me of arguing against points you never made, then you go and make up a load of arguments I never made. You're dishonest and devious, but you're REALLY BAD AT IT.

Vader's theme (The Imperial March) means different things in different contexts. It is his theme, when it's his theme. It's also been established to be an actual Imperial anthem. It was never, at least not in the saga, a diegetic piece of music re-purposed and applied to a totally different character. I don't think anyone's been ignoring the Imperial March in AotC, I just don't think it's relevant to the discussion, or as significant as you think it is, for the reasons I just outlined again.

How is this relevant? You think JW is literally a hack?

 

(1) "Reasonable" is absolutely subjective, you don't have ANY command of the human language if you don't know this, and aren't even worth having a discussion with if you don't know this; that's the reason people disagree about what constitutes reason. Do you even know what subjective means?

(2) ROFL, do you think being in a different key is the ONLY thing that is revealed in differences in terms of transcription? I think it is you who are pretending you have knowledge of music. Is that because "key" is the only word you know?

(3) And unique to the opera scene=definitively the same music? Boy you are full of laughs with the equivalencies.

(4) If you miss my point that bad, no need to make a list for you. Hack? Yes, someone is a musical hack and a pretender, that much is true.

(5) And so you are saying that WASN'T a scene meant showing Palp telling a story to manipulate Anakin? Again, I hope you are trolling, and not actually dim enough to mean that.

(6) You are laughing while being laughed at. Moving the goalpost? That was your whole point, that it was the same music, therefore Snoke was Plageuis, otherwise they wouldn't play the same music. I don't even think you understand your own argument and are just playing games.

(7) No, I think you are.

 

Dude, you've lost it.

 

Just another example from TCW, the comic "Son of Dathomir", actually planned for S. 7, which was cancelled as to be screen-animated.

While healing Maul's mind and giving him new legs in TCW, S. 4, Mother Talzin gave up her flesh because of that exhausting work and turned into a force-ghost, still to be seen, when she wanted. When Maul abducted the captured Dooku in S. 7 to Dathomir, Maul explained to Dooku: "Mother sacrificed much of her own form to resurrect me. This is why you've been unable to detect her. "

Previously neither Dooku, nor Sidious could sense her after Maul's resurrection. But Sidious at least told Dooku his presumption that Mother Talzin can't be dead because of Maul's revival which the latter could not have managed on his own. Dooku did not believe Sidious at first but in the end he was proven wrong when both Sith-Lords faced Mother Talzin on Dathomir.

And such a mighty force-user like Plagueis is surely able to disguise himself in a more refined way than other force-users could manage.

 

Sorry but IIRC didn't you ask for evidence and burden of proof etc?

That is absurd in itself as I think we both agree.

If Rey turns out to be Luke's daughter and Snoke is Plagueis I don't think anyone will be stunned and say that either is absurd.

 

Why does it seem like some people come in here to grind an axe?

Snoke's music isn't the same but it certainly is reminiscent of the Opera scene on unnatural abilities. I think Kylo's looking to learn these abilities based on the tattered shoulder length hooded robe. It looks as if he's already returned from the grave. I'm hoping the mask has some interesting story of an ancient dark side practitioner.

 

I'm not a musician, I am tone deaf, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn once. I still say they're different characters. If Snoke is Plagueis, or it is decided later that they're the same, I'll laugh. Plagueis is interesting.

 

That is as good of a qualification as any on here.

 

More "evidence" that Snoke has the appearance of something/someone that has mortal wounds and was once dead and returned from the grave.

Check out this full body shot of him from one of the blu ray features:

 

People refuse to admit it,but actually Snoke is Jar Jar Binks.
Darth Plagueis spirit entered a gungan body and started to acted funny,to not be revealed.
And Jar Jar Binks is actually Darth Plagueis.
I said.

 

Holy crap - He is 100% either Plagueis or an ancient baddie that got resurrected somehow. No question now in my mind. I am officially jumping off the thought he might be a former Jedi that went bad. There was some serious dark side going on to keep him alive looking at that.

 

Given how much Pablo Hidalgo has made fun of the plagues theory on twitter, I doubt this.

I'm probably going to get torn to shreds, aren't I?

 

Why are these wounds necessarily mortal? Vader was even more effed up.

 

The index and the middle-fingers of Snoke's hands in this picture are quite veeery long. A typical trait of the Muun-species, Plagueis is from. But the head is a bit too short IMHO.

 

Probably, like many animals the Plagueis fanboys lash out when they feel threatened

 

Well if I was in charge of the public relations of Lucasfilm and some fan theories were spot on since the announcement of a new trilogy, that's definitely the ones that I would make fun of the most.

 

There's simply not enough evidence for any solid argument for who Snoke is (if not simply Snoke)

 

Is there any precedent for that? After all, theories have been floating for a few years now. Have any made fun of publicly that turned out to be true? That would otherwise leave the more likely scenario that he was just making fun of it because he thinks it is silly.

 

I could be wrong, but I think some of the John Harrison/Khan dismissals were done witheringly, and definitely some of the Blofeld stuff.
Overall, I wouldn't place too much stock in what is said in a perfunctory tweet. I don't think Snoke is Plagueis though

 

Yeah don't take anything said in a tweet too seriously.

 

Maybe more messed up as in loss of part of his limbs and then was given artificial ones to keep him alive. That Snoke image there looks like something that got damaged and decayed/shriveled up a lot and is only alive due to some twisted use of the force. Very damaged and sickly looking. This does give some ammo to the pro Plagueis crowd. Just my opinion but I don't see them having some new character that was simply some former Jedi that went rogue after Order 66 or some underling of the Emperor being powerful enough to keep themselves alive after all that and I was starting to lean to the camp that he was a former Jedi until seeing that image. They also talk about Snoke possibly being very handsome at one time I think in some book or catalog I read.