PT Why some people hate "Padme dying of Sadness" ?

Padme was not mentally ill. She had shown no signs of depression even as it exists in the GFFA prior to ROTS. So in order to say that she has a mental illness, one would have to say that she developed one because Anakin turned evil and/or because the Republic turned into an Empire. Which goes to what I said earlier.

And writers can control how fictional characters react to trauma, it is up to the writers to tell them how to react, and yes, we in the audience can judge what we see on screen. We can judge what we see as a codependent wilting flower. We are not in a position to “help [Padme] through it,” because she is a fictional character.

The idea that criticism of the writing of Padme equates to being mean to mentally ill people is an attempt to shut down any criticism of the writing of Padme—but if that’s the angle some of you insist on taking here, I’m not especially concerned about strangers on the Internet thinking I’m “horrible” to mentally ill people in the real world because I don’t want a character I enjoyed watching, become a codependent who lost her spine for her husband.

As far as her “having no one”—sure, she gave birth with no one around except the medical droids. There were no humans there who not only took her babies but also were not allied with the fascist regime themselves.

Padme becoming an alcoholic would not have been any better. Have you all seen all the criticism about Luke in the ST hiding out and “waiting to die” when the Resistance needed him? Similar situation here, other than the lack of issue with men in storytelling being traditionally written as codependent wilting flowers.

 

But she is not actually alone. If Obi-Wan and Yoda can go into hiding, and Bail and Mon Mothma can resist the Empire (albeit not openly at first), then she can do the same. And if Palpatine did not go Herod-mode after she died, there is no reason to think he would do so if she went into hiding.

Obi-Wan and Yoda were actually alone, and they did not “lose the will to live.”

I’m looking at the GFFA reality, not some alternative reality that Padme should have never created in her mind, if that is indeed what she did. I think Lucas just wanted a symbolic scenario with Padme dying as Vader rose, and created a wilting flower story because those happen in Shakespeare and in Greek tragedies, and did not consider how terrible such a storyline works for a female character, one who was once a leader, in a 21st century film.

 

Yes.

And it’s not about “how emotions work.” It’s about not being ruled by emotions or allowing emotions to lead you into making bad decisions. In that way, Padme would be written as someone who is aspirational. Which she was, prior to ROTS.

There is really no point in listing all the bad things that happened to Padme. We all saw the movies, we know what happened. And the Republic becoming an Empire happened to everyone else on the heroic side, and Anakin’s fall happened to Obi-Wan as well.

And I would add that she was not obligated to stay in the fight “because of the twins.” Just as Obi-Wan, Yoda and Bail were not obligated to stay in the fight “because of the twins.” They were obligated because a totalitarian fascist ***hole had taken over and good, intelligent people needed to push back on that, as immediately and as forcefully as possible. This was an all-hands-on-deck situation. And not because of Luke and Leia, but because of the galaxy as a whole.

 

If Padme was suffering from sudden onset depression, the droids would still be able to suspect or diagnose that. Same as medical professionals in our world could suggest and diagnose someone as suffering from a panic attack or even possibly generalized anxiety if that person presents symptoms that, for example, mimic a heart attack but tests confirm no cardiac or other issue to be at fault. Then there would be the effort made to connect that person with appropriate mental health resources. In our world, psychologists, psychiatrists, support groups, etc. Medical professionals in our world wouldn't just do the equivalent of shrug, hold up their hands, and say, that there is nothing medically wrong with Padme (because depression or generalized anxiety or a panic attack is something medically wrong and diagnosable by competent medical professionals) and that for some reason they don't understand she has lost the will to live.

Depression also is again unlikely to kill a person by itself. A depressed person may try to commit suicide, but Padme didn't do that to our knowledge.

Re-watching the scene for this thread, I'm surprised that the droids didn't just hook Padme up to a life support machine and book her some appointments with the galaxy far, far away equivalent of a psychologist until she had regained the will to live rather than voluntarily put her through the trauma of surgery and childbirth to supposedly save the children she is carrying when I think just hooking Padme up to a life support system and getting her some appointments with a psychologist would have saved her and the kids. And let's not even talk about how morally questionable it is to prioritize the children's lives over their mother's life.

Like would Padme have even needed to go through the trauma of childbirth at that time if the medical droids hadn't decided they needed to operate on her at once to save the children? Re-watching the medical droid's bizarre conversation with Obi-Wan, I'm tempted to conclude no. Padme doesn't seem to have been in labor before that. So not sure why the decision was made to put her body through the taxing experience of a surgery instead of putting her on life support and getting her professional psychological help.

It's not a lack of compassion with the audience. It's a suspicious lack of quality medical care in a universe with bacta baths, an Anakin/Vader who can survive multiple maimings and a lava dump, a Maul who can survive getting cut through with a lightsaber and a drop down a pit so deep we can't see the bottom, and a Palpatine who can survive a similar fall plus an exploding Death Star. A universe where deaths in childbirth should be rarer even than in developed nations on our own earth. A universe where people probably shouldn't just keel over dead when there is supposedly nothing medically wrong with them (and depression like generalized anxiety is a diagnosable medical condition professionals are trained to recognize and treat, not see as some mystery) because they have just lost the will to live.

Remember, Padme doesn't even get a diagnosis in universe by the medical droids. Not of depression. Not of Takotsubo Syndrome. Not of any of the medical conditions people have proposed in this thread. She was pronounced as having nothing medically wrong with her and depression and Takotsubo Syndrome are examples of things being medically wrong with people that are diagnosable and able to be treated. They are not things that doctors in our world would declare as essentially untreatable and decide all that can be done is operate on the woman who went through recent trauma to try to save the babies because there is apparently nothing else that can be done for the woman in question.

 

The medical care center where Padme was brought which in a galaxy far, far away seems to be more medically advanced than twenty-first century Earth should certainly be equipped to recognize depression and at least provide referrals to galaxy far,far away equivalents of psychologists.

Obi-Wan, Bail, and Yoda brought Padme to a medical center. It was the medical center that failed Padme, not them. As I said, no wonder Obi-Wan looks baffled at like the worst quality medical care and diagnosis from the droids who are just like, “Ah, well, she lost the will to live. There is nothing we can do but put her body through more trauma.”

Receiving quality medical and psychological care is a basic right, not some sort of sign that female characters are flawless and getting psychological care does not make someone perfect. I know this because of my own experiences with psychological care. I am not perfect but I have gotten psychological care to help me overcome obstacles. So have friends and co-workers regardless of gender. What I am saying seems absolutely realistic to me with my own life experiences and the life experiences of people I know.

I do not know how psychological care is less realistic than surviving a lava bath or having lightspeed travel or Death Stars or the Force itself.

 

Which white male character in the PT “lost the will to live” due to a spouse turning evil or the Republic turning into an Empire? I’ll wait.

The notion that the only way to write a female character as “complex” is to promote the same horrible antiquated stereotypes that have been promoted in nearly every story in cinema (and bad romance novels) is reductive in and of itself.

I’ll change my stance on whether female characters should be portrayed that way when there is an equal tendency to write white male codependent wilting flowers. I don’t find an effort to move away from that bad stereotype of women “sad” at all. Insisting on continuing it would be “sad.”

No. She is supposed to do what they did, and hide out as needed and keep fighting.

There are many, many realistic depictions of women that do not portray them in bad antiquated stereotypes. The issue here is with thinking that “realistically” portrayed women MUST be or SHOULD be portrayed in that stereotype.

THIS.

 

I don’t think it elevated everyone at the expense of the female character either but the female character is the one that got diminished in that specific manner, which is the issue. And sure, taking out “lost the will to live” would have made a difference, then the film could have gone with Palpatine draining her life force.

And my question about which white male characters “lose the will to live” over a spouse turning evil was in response to the absurd premise in order to write Padme in as “complex” a manner as white male characters are written, she had to become codependent and “lose the will to live,” as if the only way to write female characters in a “complex” manner was to write them in bad stereotypes. According to that logic, the male characters are not “complex” either since they aren’t “losing the will to live.”

I could, but I won’t. As you can see from my avatar, I have no problem with female villains.

No one in ROTJ ever said that Anakin died from “losing the will to live.” And in some Infinities universe where that did happen, we would still have the issue of female characters being portrayed over and over in the antiquated stereotype of codependency on men.

 

Seriously? You’re going by that stereotype? All women everywhere become more dependent on their husbands when they get married?

Gender pay gaps aside, which is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed but still does not affect all women, there is nothing true about that statement. And Padme had more money than Anakin so even the gender pay gap issue, if it exists in the GFFA, would not affect her, which means the awful antiquated “generalization” you just made could not possibly apply here.

But by all means continue with the ridiculous views of women straight out of the 1950s.

No, we don’t, but I see you are continuing the sexism you have been banned for in other areas of the site.