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PT Why Yoda doesn't beat Sidious

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Love SW2012, Jul 20, 2020.

  1. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    Yoda was distracted by his swamp retirement plan.
     
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  2. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Force Ghost star 7

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    Apr 27, 2014
    I feel like GL lost sight of there are Jedi and Sith who martial, win by force of arms and then there are those who philosophical, and political who win the larger war via ideas and training the next gen.
     
  3. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2020
    ...but then how are you supposed to have way-cool lightsaber fights?!
     
  4. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 9, 2015
    Lost sight?
     
  5. Wu Wei Jedi

    Wu Wei Jedi Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Nov 8, 2021
    Too old and arrogant. Not enough determination to go kamikaze on Sidious.
     
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  6. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 7

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    Apr 6, 2018
    Yoda didn’t beat Sidious in the PT because Sidious had to win in order for the OT to exist.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
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  7. RedVader7

    RedVader7 Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 7, 2021
    I think looking at it from a logical and mental aspect Yoda went in short handed and also with a limited window.

    The entire Jedi Order had been destroyed in what seemed like an instant and he definitely felt that on Kashyyyk when he dropped to his knees when he sensed something terrible was happening with the mass execution of the Jedi across the galaxy.

    So going in against Sidious who had risen out of the ashes full of power and control I think that was far too much for Yoda to handle, He went in almost beaten carrying a heavy heavy burden of all the Jedi that were killed so it would have definitely affected him somewhat IMO, He also lost his lightsaber in the duel and a lot of people have said “Why didn’t he go back up and finish Sidious off”

    Well he was already beaten he had taken a complete pounding plus also the clone troopers were close by so had he gone back up to the senate with his stamina already depleted I don’t think he would have survived. Sidious was growing in power while Yoda was already beaten both mentally and physically, When Sidious began launching the pods he was trying to keep Yoda as far away as possible and not engage in close quarters.

    Sidious had masterminded all of this for years and years what with the downfall of the Jedi and he himself now full of power an 800 year old already showing signs of decline couldn’t have matched him one one one.

    He had a very small window to engage and kill Sidious and he failed. He himself said that
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
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  8. IJjones41

    IJjones41 Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 13, 2021
    Perhaps it was just bad luck, especially since both were capable of each other.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
  9. Lee_

    Lee_ Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Nov 3, 2012
    This is addressed in the novel. Yoda realizes he had not been working to improve himself and his power like Palp had. It didn't matter though, because if he had killed Palp, Palp would just have reincarnated.
     
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  10. cantthinkofone

    cantthinkofone Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 6, 2020
    im pretty sure at some point george said yoda is stronger, but he lost because of his size. he simply does not have the weight to hold him from the lightning explosions, something palpatine does have (wheight of a normal human in his 50s or so). not even the force can beat physics.

    thats pretty much it. nothing really more to it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
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  11. SHAD0W-JEDI

    SHAD0W-JEDI Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 20, 2002
    The way I saw it, Yoda had to lose because the Chosen One was the one who "had" to bring balance to the Force. Not that I found that very satisfying, but...

    My biggest problem was with how it was scripted. It would have been so easy for, say, stormtroopers/clone troopers to enter the Senate Chambers and lay down a withering fire at Yoda, and for Yoda to decide that in the face of that massive firepower AND Sidious, retreat made sense.
     
  12. Sidious69

    Sidious69 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2004

    “Size matters NOT, judge be my size do you?” ~Yoda on The Empire Strikes Back

    Why do people can’t stand Emperor being more powerful?? Is it because he’s the bad guy while Yoda is the good guy?? OMG Think of the children!!!!

    It’s so obvious even on the CT, that the Emperor was the top dog, the final boss, and the bar that the heroes has to surpass.

    All his Sith Apprentices are powerhouses and fears no one except the Dark Lord himself.

    On the deleted scene, even Yoda himself told Qui-Gonn he was NOT Strong Enough to beat the Emperor. Even if it’s not canon for all you canon obsessed people out there because it’s not in the movie….GL still wrote it and considered it.

    ONLY the Skywalker line or a Palpatine granddaughter has the potential to overpower the all powerful villain.

    Showing the most powerful hero (Yoda) lose makes The Chosen One’s purpose to be more dire and important more than ever.
     
  13. cantthinkofone

    cantthinkofone Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2020
    yoda was referring to control over the force. not his physical mass when it needs to provide counter(dont know the english word) to something with larger mass.
    during that explosion, yoda was basically thrown away like a ragdoll while the bigger guy, was not.
    palpatine lightning made yoda fly like a bird, not because of weakness, but because his weight simply cant hold him with that kind of force. BUT he was able to overcome palpatine lightning with his hands. yoda is a beast with the force, but size DOES matter.

    goerge lucas wrote alot of scenes that never made the cut for many reasons, but at the end of the day, they are considered non-canon, as in the eyes of GL, his films and statements are the only canon. its his world, so i wont argue with it.

    i read and seen lots intervidews of of george lucas that were supplementary. one of them is what i said. i dont make things up, i repeat GL.


    EDIT:
    these stuff may be just rumors, because i dont remember if i read quotes or watched him speak, when you just read stuff, you need to take it with a grain of salt.


    disney's "star wars" is just fan fiction. its no more than two kids fighting with sticks doing "vooooom voooom". just expensive fan fiction. BAD fan fiction.

    the skywalker line arent special. only three people in the family are: anakin, luke and leia (all with equal potential. (anakin the only one to get proper complete training.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  14. Sidious69

    Sidious69 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2004

    Well GL did say in the commentary that the Dark Side is more powerful.

    As for Disney, yeah they really dropped the ball on the sequels, but I’m glad they held Palpatine in high regards from him showing his true skills battling Maul and Savage, to him powerful enough to come back from the dead, to blasting the entire Rebel Fleet all the way to making Mary Sue Rey a Palpatine herself. Plus all the CANON comic books where Palpatine was in showing his vast powers.

    And the Skywalker line is special. Anakin was the only character in the SW stories to be born without a father like Jesus Christ himself. He also have the highest midichlorian count on record….even higher than Yoda. It suggests that the Force had to create him to balance the growing power of Sidious.

    “The Emperor knew as i did. If Anakin were to have any offsprings…they would be a threat to him.”

    Ben to Luke ROTJ
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
  15. cantthinkofone

    cantthinkofone Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 6, 2020
    isnt Shmi also a skywalker ? in my personal opinion, i believe the speciality would end with luke and leia because they were just a tool to fulfill anakin's story and the prophesy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
  16. cantthinkofone

    cantthinkofone Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 6, 2020
    lets not start sequels stuff. because the way i see it, its all irrelevant because GL never took part of it any way. he actually had a different story/framework which they threw away. and if you like it or not, everything in the star wars films (especially the prequels) came directly from his mind. star wars is GL.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
  17. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2020
    That's pretty much what you could say about the whole PT. If GL would have put in a little more effort then xyz would make more sense.
     
  18. Sidious69

    Sidious69 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2004
    I meant the Skywalker line that started with Anakin since he came from virgin birth and anything that comes from him will have that potential to be the all powerful. Kylo Ren Solo Skywalker included. If he would have had a kid with Rey Palpatine then that kid will be the be all and end all. Lol

    And yes. Palpatine weighs more than Yoda, but as Force Users ….physics doesn’t matter anymore.

    Just like when Luke was complaining to Yoda about moving rocks is one thing but an X-Wing???!!!!

    Then Yoda told him…..No!! No different!! ONLY different in your MIND.

    So basically the heavier X-Wing is no different than the lighter weight rocks in the realm of Force Users if you truly can master it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
  19. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2020
    Physics does matter when weighing more means you get thrown back less and don't end up falling from a great height.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
  20. IJjones41

    IJjones41 Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 13, 2021
    Perhaps we'll never know. Like many other matters in the universe, the outcome of the duel was a roll of the dice.
     
  21. Sidious69

    Sidious69 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2004
    “No different. ONLY different in your mind.”
    ~Yoda telling Luke that the weight of moving rocks and X-Wing is not different when you master the Force in Empire Strikes Back
     
  22. FightoftheForgotten

    FightoftheForgotten Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 19, 2020
    Well, then I guess Yoda should have been thinking about being heavier.
     
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  23. cantthinkofone

    cantthinkofone Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 6, 2020
    this is the prequels forum.

    but in any case, the story is clear. its about the life and death of anakin skywalker/darth vader, the child of prophesy. luke and leia got their powers so he can complete his prophesy but they will be the last with super-uber-extreme-powers.

    everything disney is 100% non-canon. there is no reason to even mention it. its not GL (at all, they refused him) AND its a complete mess that doesnt make sense. it doesnt qualify to be "star wars".

    you need to seperate situations. this 1 lesson doesn apply to EVERY situation.
    "the force" is just 1 out of several other physical forces (such as gravity and magnetism etc...). force users can manipulate the force, but the other forces of nature still affect them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
  24. Sidious69

    Sidious69 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2004

    Yes other physical forces exists and can affect them BUT what Yoda is telling Luke is that mastery over The Force can defy those other physical forces.

    This is a Universe where Sith and Jedi exists and a mystical energy called The Force that trumps all other physical forces.

    “Luminous beings are we, not this CRUDE MATTER.” ~Yoda

    That the difference in weight between stones and an X-Wing is ONLY different in their minds. That the mental aspect trumps physical matter.

    Luke like you is doubting the spiritual and mental aspects because both you and Luke can only see the restraints of the physical realm.

    So that lesson DOES apply to everything.

    Luke: You WANT THE IMPOSSIBLE.

    (Yoda lifts X-Wing from swamp)

    Luke: I don’t believe it!!

    Yoda: And that is why you fail.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
  25. cantthinkofone

    cantthinkofone Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2020
    no it does not.
    it was one of the first few lessons among many others. the jedi doctrine is much more than "do the impossible", because the impossible does exist. making stuff levitate doesnt mean you can fly, go super saiyan and destroy planets with a punch, run back in time and through dimensions and survive in the sun..

    all pf the physical forces work together, manipulating the force allows to "bend" it in some ways, but there are limits. a powerful jedi can control a senate sit or large poles, but they cant control the entire senate building. mass matters. and even if a jedi can use the force to not fly away in an explosion, for guy that is small as yoda, there is so much that he can do. MAYBE he can make it so instead of flying 5 meters, he will fly 2 meters. MAYBE.
     
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