Worst CGI moment in ROTS

People need to understand that ILM had money to finish the shots but they didn't have the money that people think.

Put it this way; Episode III was reported to have a budget of 113 million for production and post. That number is a little high. The actually budget of Episode III was actually 100 million.

ILM probably only had about 50 million to do 2100 visual effects shots. That's astounding. If Sony Pictures Imageworks had the same amount of shots to do, they would've spent at least 80 million on that amount of shots.

Give ILM some credit. They did way more than for the budget they were given.

Having said that, the only place where I think ILM was subpar was the Grievous/Obi-Wan chase through the Utapau city. That was the only subpar part for me.

 

I think ILM did a *GREAT* job, Jumpman, and I'm not dissing them or George. And I never claimed that money was an issue, it certainly wasn't.

The point I was trying to make was that this was GL's work of art -- regardless of how many hundreds of others worked on it -- and a work of art should be as polished as possible, because flaws tend to reflect back on the artist (GL). To me, and several others on this thread, the Clones were flawed and it doesn't appear to be a case of reaching the limits of technology or anything, when they could've just made a suit!

 

The helmetless Clones shots were flawed. That's not an issue. I agree with that as well. But, with film, sometimes it comes down to time and money and I'm sure that sometimes there are casualities in certain shots. I'm sure if ILM didn't have to meet the April 1st dead line and had another 3 months to work on the shots in the films, every visual effects shots in the film would've been perfect.

I'm sure Peter Jackson would say the same thing about his Rings films in certain visual effects shots throughout that Trilogy.

 

Obi-Wan and Anakin look pretty superimposed for most of the outdoor Mustafar shots.

But nothing is worse than the Obi-Wan ragdoll platform shot from the Dooku duel.

 

Yes, that's what I was thinking (but forgot to post) -- if a deadline was the reason why the "flaws" were left in, then that would be understandable. Would any of us have wanted to wait until July to see the movie?

Good point!

 

For me, it's also the gratuitous Dooku front flip and the catwalk crashing down onto Obi-Wan after he's force-pushed. I don't think there was any need for either shot to be CG. That said, I think ILM did an outstanding job with most of the other stuff.

 

To be fair...when I saw AOTC in the theaters...and I saw it alot...I thought that parts looked bad too...especially the battle of geonosis. Then...when I got to see it on DVD...I swear it was a zillion times better. The theaters I saw ROTS in didn't have digital...so IMO...I won't see the movie as it was meant to be seen until the DVD.

 

Well, I saw Episode III digitally 8 times at the Arclight Cinerama Dome(huge screen)...and the CG was perfectly composited with the live action elements...except for the Grievous/Obi-Wan chase in Utapau.

As for Mustafar, in digital, Anakin and Obi-Wan looked like they were there! It was beautiful. The DVD image will look even better than the digital image I saw at Arclight so I can't wait.

 

good to know, Jumpman.

 

>>Well, I saw Episode III digitally 8 times at the Arclight Cinerama Dome(huge screen)...and the CG was >>perfectly composited with the live action elements...except for the Grievous/Obi-Wan chase in Utapau.

(sloughs off the envy) OK, I've never been able to see Star Wars in a digital theater. But my impression is that the digital screening would have sharper images, better color, fewer jaggies, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

But why would bad CGI look worse on the film print from the digial original? Or look OK digitally, but not OK on film? Film is going to took softer, less intense...if anything, it should cover bad CG, not enhance it.
I have a large-screen digital TV...I'll scrutinize the Clones Nov 1. If they look better, I'll be shocked... but happy!

Unless, of course, they've been tweaked for the DVD release (let's hope so!)

 

What came across as the worst CGI to me was when Commander Gree turns to acknowledge the Scout Trooper that it's time to kill Yoda. That Trooper's helmet looked horribly fake.

 

I seem to recall it dragging him along though.

 

And for me I think it's great that when GL wants to tinker later it will be rather seamless since so much of the movie is alreay cgi. Some of the stuff in the OT that's been redone looks ok but it just doesn't fit with the rest of the film as far as technology. I don't think we'll have any complaints about future tinkering.

 

I try not to think about this stuff.
But if I had to pick I would say that some of the sets looked bad at times. I mean, I could tell they were animated sets. (Done with Green Screen/Blue Screen) Although, I really don't like to dwell on this stuff. I just like the movies.

 

When Dooku hurled Obi-Wan into the railing, and then the platform fell on him, I thought it looked completely fake. Which it was, but it looked like it was. Upon my first viewing of the movie at midnight, my girlfriend turned to me and said "That looked so fake".

 

Yeah, my point exactly and as you can see above someone tried to tell me something that made no sense.

 

For me, the worst CGI moments were the ones that add absolutely nothing to a scene. On the other hand, I can accept that some parts of the Dooku fight or the clones look fake, as long as having those characters doing what they're doing add to the story.

The unnecessary stuff is like the little robtos flying around for no reason on Mustafar. At one point when Obi-Wan and Annakin land on some piping or catwalk and are trying to keep their balance, the lighting is dramatic, the music is dramatic - and then there's a stupid little CGI robot "hovering" in the air, distracting my attention from the fight. Why was it there, and featured prominantly? Presumably so the filmakers can shove their "look how great our CGI is" right in my face.

This has been done in an even more annoying manner in other movies as well - worst offender is Harry Potter II (can't remember its sub-title). There are little blue CGI creatures flying loose in the classroom and the director makes sure one lingers directly in front of the camera; then during dueling practice, the CGI snake is flown stright up directly at the camera; then at the end when the big snake is dying, the director makes sure it flips its head directly up to the camera. Enough already. We get it - you're proud of your CGI. But the way it's put to effect is irritating. Same with Return of the King - I don't really need to see "reaction" shots of CGI characters that add nothing (like when the troll turns to look at the head orc with a "Huh?" expression when a giant rock jusst misses landing on the orc). Or Lucas' tinkering with the original Star Wars by adding stupid CGI antics in the background of various scenes that add nothing to the story. These irritate me far more than a CGI that is badly done, but the actions of the character would have otherwise been appropriate in that scene.

 

Haha, how true. Well said. I think everyone is a little giddy with it right now. Like kids with a new toy. I mean, we know you got it. Congratulations! But you're at a 10, and we need you to back up to like a 5.

 

I know George wants to be cost effective, but how much could it cost to create a clonetrooper uniforms. Heck, geeks created them for SW conventions. Can't be that expensive. I didn't like commander cody's head on the CGI bodies. Didn't work for me.

That's been the problem with the prequels since the beginning. The films, digifilms rather, look too organic. The real world feeling from the original films is gone. In the original SW movies they could take a break and chat on a real set. The prequels barely do that. If they do there's probably some CGI effect being showcased in the background, like they're saying. Look what we can do!

 

a very good topic, i must say ...

i agree with pretty much everything

except i'll like to also point out that those that complain about,

1) dooku flip on IH looked fake
2) Cmdr. Cody head looked off from his body
3) Palpatine's Great Leap Forward looking fake
4) Palpatine's idiotic Yoda's style jump at the end of the duel with mace
5) Grevious chase with OB1
6) Grevious on spider-mode
7) Anakin's lave surfing
8) Boga

etc ...

i think that though they might look fake, the only reason you are acutallu seeing at fake is probably b/c you dont agree with that scene, btw the same goes with me

1) dooku flip on IH looked fake it is not in dooku's style to jump like that, it is not elegent
2) Cmdr. Cody head looked off from his body an average viwer would have never notice that, you notice it b/c u knew the stormtrooper's suit will be CG
3) Palpatine's Great Leap Forward looking fake No stunt can jump like that!!!
4) Palpatine's idiotic Yoda's style jump at the end of the duel with mace its cheap way, to make him look fast
5) Grevious chase with OB1 u hate the stupid wheel-bike
6) Grevious on spider-mode u hate the stupid spider-mode
7) Anakin's lave surfing it is unreleastic; yes i know there is force field protecting him ;but nevertheless
8) Boga nuff said


a good CG integrated movie is the movie that u cant notice where it goes from real to CG;
Palpatine's Great Leap Forward was a direct transition from a real actor to CG, b/c u know that in yr head that No stunt can jump like that!!!

btw though i like LOTR, i think that movie has few good CG (gollum) and a whole bunch of badly-transition-from-real-to-CG ... like the mines of Moria, u know that whenever the camera goes wild, its a CG shot, in terms of location CG/real integration, the best ones in my book is Minas Tirith, Kashyyyk and Utapau; they had the best integration of a miniature into a CG environment or viceversa; i never knew they actually built miniature of thw wookie tree or the sinkholes until i saw "Ten gallons of ..."; when u watch SW; it is saturated with CG; so generally u dont notice that much bad transition; but when u watch LOTR, which is shot in the gorgeous landscape of newzealand, when it goes CG its very noticeable, simply because they use CG when they can;t do it with real model; ala, denethor's jumping off mina tirith or in TTT after Saruman gave a speech to his troops, the camera zoom backward in a very non-realistic way, that just cries out loud "I am CG"; another bad transition movie is the great renowed Matrix Reloaded: when the fight betweeb Smith(s) and Neo turns CG when doing unrealistic things and then back to real people for more wire-work; when u look at Kashyyyk in ROTS; the first scene the 'CG' camera is coming toward the wookie tree as if it was a helicoptershot; THATs REALISTIC!!!! then u see a wookie helicopter passing over the camera, and u see the 'CG' camera shake; THATS GREAT!!!! small things like this makes the scene so much real than the obvious-wild-CG-zooms of the LOTR !!!! all this being said in favor of ROTS versus LOTR, i think i should also mention that i think AOTC's CG was bordering crap; why because my brain cannot cope with shiny kaminoneans, or the spider driods on geonosis, though my mind can cope with the walkers or the gunships (b/c i can see that human element in them). i never felt danger for the heroes when they were in the arena, though the creatures were done nicely ... but anyways i take AOTC over ROTJ anyday ...

 

Lava Surfing

and

During the Battle of Courscant, after Obi-Wan and Anakin kill all the droids in the hangar bay, there is a shot of the droids falling to the ground. I think this is a sub-par shot for ILM.

 

i agree with OB1 stoping the momentum of all sabers dead on!!! i mentioned this before somewhere, somesaid answered "oh OB1 is using the Force ..." but anyways, i dont think that shot is bad CG, eventhough it is unrealistic

 

I could NOT agree MORE!!!!
Everything you said is exactly what I've been thinking ever since they did the Special Editions.

For me the worst CGI moments were

-Dooku filpping over the bar.
-The clones without helmets(Just make a few suits people...c'mon).
-Grievous' insides.
-All of those stupid little robots flying around on Mustafar.

 

>>>2) Cmdr. Cody head looked off from his body an average viwer would have never notice that, you notice it b/c u knew the stormtrooper's suit will be CG

"...the force is strong with this one." (i.e., WitchKing66)


You really know how to cut through the crap, WK66!

GL also knew it was a CG suit, as he calmly reviewed the "final" take of the scene...

 

thanks dude

Grand_Poobah posted:
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The unnecessary stuff is like the little robtos flying around for no reason on Mustafar. At one point when Obi-Wan and Annakin land on some piping or catwalk and are trying to keep their balance, the lighting is dramatic, the music is dramatic - and then there's a stupid little CGI robot "hovering" in the air, distracting my attention from the fight. Why was it there, and featured prominantly? Presumably so the filmakers can shove their "look how great our CGI is" right in my face.
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Grand_Poobah, that entire scene with the pipe is one of the most heavily CG'ed scene of the movie, the reason u dont notice it b/c =====================> it has a good CG/real integration

but yeah the little flying things were distracting, but i can assure u they were not put there to show off ILM work. that entire 5 seconds scene was goodenough to showoff ILM' work

btw people should know that ILM means special effect, which could be both CG and/or miniature work