Your thoughts on the saga forum

The problem with the "only in-depth, analytical discussion" rule is that it stifles discussion rather than encourages it. Very few members are willing to contribute to the kind of forum that constantly harangues its members with admonishments to change their posting style to be more "in-depth", or that deletes threads that people otherwise enjoy, just because they're "speculative" or "humorous". Star Wars is fun, first and foremost, and discussions about it need to allow that element of fun and light-heartedness.

 

I agree. Whilst I love the indepth discussions, there's no reason why we can't "lighten up" a little bit too. Yes, we have SWC for "fluff" (apologies to the SWC crowd), and I have no intention of making this SWC 2.0. But we should certainly look into creating a healthy balance. I know we have some posters who pretty much only post in Saga, so what about a social thread where perhaps we could get to know each other a little better?

 

Well, first let me offer my congrats to halibut. Good luck on taking the helm of this forum. I would have posted sooner but had been locked away in BB5.

The original intent of this forum (around the time of DA, Spike, and Dashy) was for detailed and analytical discussion and debate of the six films (as the header still indicates.) From the onset, this has always been a daunting challenge. For so long, posters have come to this forum and treated it as a free-for all. What isn't encompassed by Saga? So there have been EU speculation, topics which exclusively deal with the OT or PT, and more community type threads. There have been times of intense mod regulation and intervention in the forum and there have been times of a more laissez-faire approach. The difficulty has been in fostering a strong and vibrant forum that lives up to the original intent. So often, the threads are not in-depth or bridging the whole saga...they are allowed to continue because they are the only ones attracting posters. I've always thought this forum suffers (to some extent) with an identity crisis.

I'm probably treating this subject too seriously. There are no easy answers. I haven't been a regular poster on these boards in recent years. When I was a regular, I came to Saga most often. This forum always had the capacity to be really strong. I'd like to see more of a return toward the thought-provoking discussions that bridge the saga.

-Seldon

 

Sorry for the double-post. I hadn't read through all of this and wanted to respond.

Honestly, I see where you're coming from. At the same time, all of those types of threads belong in the Star Wars Community forum that allows for humor, lists, speculation, and jokes. What has always made this forum distinctive is that it treats the films in a more serious manner (I see it as analogous to Amp/Senate vs. YJCC--though that might be faulty.) Without the distinctive features of this forum (i.e. the original mission) then what's the point? I haven't been around here recently, but DA, Spike, Dagsy, and Dashy did a great job with this place. I think a return to that era would be helpful for the forum.

EDIT: On another point, to cut down on some redundancy, an overhaul and update of the old indexes might be a good idea.

 

The problem seems to be that irrespective of the topic, if it spans the whole saga, there will often come a point where someone says that it was done better in one half than the other, at which point all hell can sometimes break loose. I'm pretty new around here and in the time I've been posting, I've noticed that the OT v PT thing seems to dominate a great many discussions. Has this been the case long term?

 

It doesn't always have to be PT/OT comparison and I don't remember it always being that way.
While film critique has always been a part of the commentary, there had long been threads dealing with the influences on the saga, discussions of character motivations, story arcs, historical comparisons, etc.

 

Hadrian's Wall reveals the high water mark of the Roman Empire. For it to be demolished would erase the depth to which the Empire struck.

 

And that says a lot about people on the Internet (and in general), in my opinion. What you are advocating is that this forum be degraded and cheapened with frivolous threads and quick-fire exchanges for people with ten-second attention spans. Yes, it will, doubtless, make this forum more "popular", but only in the same way a flashy blockbuster movie with tons of action and humour guarantees more bums on seats than a slow-burning independent film made on a shoestring budget. I really hate dumbing-down; what you're suggesting sounds like dumbing-down.

Personally, if it is felt dumbing-down needs to happen -- even though, by my reckoning, more people have, so far, voiced the opposite -- then I think you'll need to split this forum in two, quite literally, reserving one forum for serious discussions, which is what the Star Wars Saga forum is always meant to have stood for, and one for people who prefer playing around in a sandbox. The two forums, if not sets of people, can then go merrily on, minding each other's business, free of bother from the other. Personally, I feel such a situation exists: it's called "Star Wars Community" and "Star Wars Saga". But whatever.

N.B. Looking at this post a second time, I'm sorry if any of that reads harsh. It was meant in more of a dry way, but with passion! Merlin, you're a nice chap, and what you've suggested makes a measure of sense. I just can't go along with it.

 

This is good stuff, guys, although it's making it harder to work out what to do

There are very good arguments both for and against relaxing the current official "rules".

But one thing I am very keen to get rid of is the "The PT sucks" "No it doesn't" diatribe that currently seems prevalent. (And I think that's the first time I've ever said diatribe and prevalent in the same sentence). There's absolutely no need for it. There's nothing wrong with hating the PT, but in this forum such statements should be backed up with examples and personal evidence and opinions, rather than blanket statements. And such exchanges invariably get heated. Or in summary. Hate leads to heated exchanges. Heated exchanges lead to insults. Insults....lead to bannings. It goes back to what I was saying earlier about respect peoples opinions. Let's not beat around the bush. People have pretty much made up their minds about whether they like the PT or not. It's highly unlikely that a hater will suddenly think "You're right, they ARE good movies" or vice versa. But perhaps with civil discussion we can learn more about WHY people feel the way they do. The great thing about Star Wars is that a lot of it is open to interpretation, which is why these boards are so popular. So let's discuss and debate, not dictate.

 

I am advocating no such thing. You're making a straw man here. This forum is already allowing the kinds of threads that other TFN forums allow: speculative, humor, lists, etc. Is it currently degraded? Cheapened? Frivolous? A haven for ADD sufferers? Halibut has already said that he is not going to let this forum descend into the kind of foolishness you so rightly reject. He's not going to let it become another Community forum.

For the record, I like in-depth, analytical discussions. It's part of what attracts me to the forum and part of why I agreed to co-manage it last year with Stryphe. But you're aren't going to achieve that level of debate by forcing it on people. Rigid control of discussion style is not the way to foster open and productive debate. Either people want to have those kinds of discussions, or they don't.

We should allow them to happen according to the will of the members, and meanwhile allow more "fun" and open-ended discussions to take place, too.

It's not as severe a dichotomy as you paint it to be. It's not an "either/or" proposition: "Either we can have in-depth, intelligent, serious debates -- or we can play around in a sandbox! No middle ground!" That's absurd. We can have both.

Sure, I understand, and I appreciate your point too. I don't want to lose the in-depth discussion,and I don't think halibut is advocating that we should. The key I think is to provide a forum in which people can discuss the various aspects of the Saga in whatever way that they feel comfortable with, in various threads that provide a different context for a related discussion.

For example, we could have a thread designed for serious debate about Anakin's Fall and Redemption -- it could stipulate these analytical parameters in the OP -- and we could have a thread that speculates on what might have happened if he had not fallen, and we could have a thread in which we poke fun at the whole idea of a robot redeeming the Galaxy by tossing an old man into an air conditioning duct, and we could have a thread that lists our favorite moments in Anakin's rise and fall. I mean, why not? Does that approach seem "frivolous" or "dumb" to you?

 

Good call. I try to be like this. What I think a lot of people don't get (or at least choose to ignore) is that I, along with I'm sure a great many so-called 'bashers', really WANT to be able to like the PT/Saga. I've given those movies more chances to change my mind than any other movie ever.

On the flip side, there are a lot of movies I like which I recognize are considered by a lot of people to be not-so-good or even bad movies. Temple of Doom, X-Men 3, The Matrix Revolutions. And while I of course am absolutely opposed to the notion of changing my personal stance (after all, why would I want one less movie in my life to enjoy?), I do try to be aware of the fact that mine is a minority viewpoint, and to understand why people have the problems they do with these films.

The thing that alternately frustrates and amuses me on these boards is the number of people here who are unwilling or unable to even acknowledge that the population of moviegoers who were disappointed by the PT is more than just a vocal minority.

 

I am not a fan of hard and fast rules in a forum of this nature. Most that post here are sensible enough to get by on common sense.

Personally, I enjoy the flexibility of the forum, allowing me to talk of G-Canon and EU in the same sentence without cringing.

 

Based on discussions here and in MS, is there currently any plans to officially amend the rules for Saga? In point of practice, the rules have been loosened in recent years and this development sparked this debate. So will the rules officially be relaxed or will there be a revamped effort to direct this forum to its original intent? Is anything going to come of this?

My vote is a more practical understanding of the current rules. This is not SWC, nor is it CT/PT. To remain distinctive and thus viable, it should still conform to the notion of analytical and "serious" discussion which bridges the six films. With that said, there should be more active attempts to generate more discussions and not stifle them. Locking threads is often important in here (because of poster misconceptions of what this place is) but it is equally important to work toward more sustained and better conversations.

Alright, I'll get off my soapbox now.

-Seldon