1) Morality of taking youngling from family and 2)Why no Padawan for Anakin?

Since we see pre-school age younglings in II and III and we know Anakin and Luke are both technically too old according to Yoda, it seems as though the Jedi children come to live at the temple at a very young age. Do the families of the children have any say in whether or not their baby goes to the temple? Even if the family consents, is it morally sound to cut a baby off from his birth family in order to raise a person who will have no attachments to anything or anyone but the Jedi order?




In Episode III, Anakin is no longer a Padawan, but he doesn't have a Padawan of his own. (I know the Council doesn't make him a Master on the Council, but the youngling refers to him as 'Master') Is this because the Council didn't think he was ready? Because they did not trust him and had never trusted him? Or was it because he was too busy fighting the war to train a padawan?

Do all Masters eventually receive a Padawan to train? Would Anakin have even been mentally stable enough to train a student?

 

I think the Jedi are immoral for taking young children to train. Young children cannot give informed consent, so they are condemned to a life which they may not have chosen freely. Even if the Jedi apprentices are allowed to leave the order at some point, then they would still have sacrificed their childhood years to the training.

The Sith seem to train adults, which is much better. Notice how Darth Sidious recruits Anakin Skywalker when he is an adult, and moreover he gives him a choice to either join him or not. This is quite different from the practice of the Jedi.

 

I don't think the Jedi steal children in the night.

As for Anakin not having a Padawan of his own, I don't quite think he had time, since he was in the Outer Rim Seiges for most of the time between AOTC and ROTS (notice that him and Padme haven't seen each other much lately). Also war isn't a good time to be trying to take on a Padawan learner, not to mention the fact that I don't think all Knights have Padawans... probably only those who show a knack for training.

 

Children should not have to choose a career path at that early age. Of course, children like lightsabers, and adventure, and they admire the powerful Jedi, so they are enticed to choose this path if they have Force potential. They know very little of the sacrifices they must make later on, having no family, no ties, and shouldering the enormous responsibility of protecting the Republic.

 

The Sith usually train apprentices from birth, exceptions made for Dukoo and anikan because they were already force-strong and not devoted to the Jedi and that there wasn't time.

I suppose it is immoral to take a child from birth, but it is much safer that way - the child would most likely be more devoted. However they can leave whenever they want.

Btw the Jedi levels "youngling, padawan, knight, master" - I think people call everyone who is above them in that order "master" - (except for younglings and padawans who aren't called that by anyone). And masters call all everyone who is above them but in that category "master" - so really Yoda is the only one who escapes having to call someone that. (Apart from Qui-Gon at the end of ROTS).

 

If i can tag a question onto this topic, (this has probably been asked before), how do Jedi find the children who will become Jedi? Do they stumble across them by accident, like Anakin on Tatooine? or are there 'hotspots' where force-strong children can be found?
If they do rely on finding them by accident, that's quite a risky way of finding new jedi surely

 

Technically, a child "belongs" to their parents. The parents have complete control over the life they lead (barring of course an illegal lifestyle). Giving your child to the Jedi would be no different than giving it up for adoption or sending it away to (a very extreme) boarding school. Though we may try to kid ourselves, we hardly choose the life we lead; our parents do that. We merely react to it.

 

I know it's EU, but Dark Rendezvous says Jedi only take infants from abusive families, and ask permission of the parents to take their infant if they are living poorly and might not be able to support their child.

And can you REALLY see Anakin with a padawan?

 

Anakin is only 23. It's very young to be taking on an apprentice.

Obi-Wan was young at 24/25 in EpI.

Qui-Gon is 55, according to Neeson after a half-humorous talk with Lucas- and in his 60s in the novel meaning he'd have took on Obi-Wan at 40 or 50.

Perhaps he had a padawan before Obi-Wan but it's never said.

Anakin lacks the experience to take on a pupil.

 

I wondered the same thing. Please forgive a cross-genre reference, but this taking jedi potentials into the Order reminded me a lot of a sci-fi series where people with telepath abilities were searched out and forced into a special training corps. The purpose was supposedly to protect society at large from untrained individuals running around using their powers willy-nilly. I wondered if something similar might have happened with Jedi.

We know Anakin was quite able to use force powers without realizing it for podracing, etc. It gave him an arguably unfair advantage. Perhaps it was construed a problem to let untrained force-sensitives roam about the galaxy, potentially using their powers for unfair gain or dark side uses?

Just a thought.

 

the show is Babylon 5

The idea of taking children and rasing them up in a relgious order is very medeval. Or hitler youth for that matter. The objective is to brake the child's loyalty and bond to their family and attach it to whatever organisation they are attached to.

You see it when cult leaders isolate the children of their followers into group homes.

It results in emotionally stunted people.

 

Qui-Gon is 55, according to Neeson after a half-humorous talk with Lucas- and in his 60s in the novel meaning he'd have took on Obi-Wan at 40 or 50.

Perhaps he had a padawan before Obi-Wan but it's never said.

Qui-Gon is 60 in TPM, and he has had oen apprentice before: Xanatos, who turned to teh dark side.

Slimy!

 

^ After whom, he came to the Temple and chose not to take another apprentice until Obi Wan.

Anakin never chose to take an apprentice.

Besides, I'm pretty sure only a master takes an Apprentice, and Anakin is not a Master

 

Obi-Wan was not a Master when he took Anakin as his apprentice, so a knight _can_ take on an apprentice.

 

Syphus makes a good point and I think that is what was wrong with Anakin's training from the get-go.

He was a slave all his life to Watto. Then he is freed, the next thing you know he is referring to people as Master and has traded one slaves life for another

 

Anakin is one of the most talented knights and is valuable for the war. He has no time for a padwan. And if the padawans dont like Jedi life they can just suck at it and be sent to the agricultural corps.

 

Taking a kid at birth to train him is no different than taking a kid at birth and feeding him any other religious dogma, be it Christianity or otherwise. Do you think teaching kids about Jesus is bad? (I do, but I'm biased, being an atheist) It's the same kind of thing.

 

Even if the family consents, is it morally sound to cut a baby off from his birth family in order to raise a person who will have no attachments to anything or anyone but the Jedi order?

And the correct answer was: [Originally posted by T16Skyhopper]
"Giving your child to the Jedi would be no different than giving it up for adoption or sending it away to (a very extreme) boarding school."

No, there is nothing inherently immoral about it. The Jedi are not stealing the child, they go to the parents in order to get permission for the child to be trained. They talk with the parents, discuss the situation, and explain to them that their child has been born with a very special gift that they can teach him to learn. Most (if not all) of the time, the parents will understand, and allow their child to be trained as a Jedi. The parents have the right to do that. Now, if the parents refused to allow their child to go, then it would be immoral for the Jedi to disregard those wishes and (essentially) kidnap the child. But under the ideal circumstances, that would certainly most not be the case. So no, there is nothing inherently immoral about it. Good question, though.