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FF:WA 50 Ways that "The Phantom Menace" Failed

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by Sith Magician, Jul 27, 2001.

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  1. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    I just know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but I'll happily hear anyones INTELLIGENT comments.

    The Midi-chlorian explanation for the Force...where can I get my booster shot?
    The Virgin Shmi and the "Immaculate Conception" of Anakin
    Subsitution of slapstick for wit, or real humour
    Supposedly fearsome battle droids that the Jedi use for saber practice.
    Star Trek touches, like beaming Anakin's blood sample on board
    Nicknaming Anakin "Annie". No wonder he turns to the Dark Side...other kids probably beat him up all the time
    Introducing the concept of slavery to the Star Wars universe - what are droids for then?
    While Anakin is supposed to be bright (even though this isn't not evident in his actions or speech), how are we supposed to believe that a slave boy has the time, money, or access to education necessary to whip together a droid all by himself?
    Qui-Gon's wussiness. His rebellious attitude is talked about but never shown
    Story point of having to get money to pay for hyperdrive part. Why do they just believe Watto when he claims to be the only vendor who has one? This would have been more believable if it was at least implied that they had looked elsewhere.
    Anakin's farewell to his mom...a Mafia hit has more warmth
    Having Padme come along to Mos Espa just so she could encounter Anakin
    Padme and Anakin being introduced as a case of 'love at first sight', complete with a pick-up line (are you an angel?). While this is obviously supposed to reveal Anakin's power to see the future, wouldn't a 9 year old boy be a bit disturbed by visions of marrying a girl that he probably thinks has cooties? And wouldn't Padme be more likely to be going for Obi-Wan?
    Jar Jar accidentally destroying half the battle droid army. "In my experience there is no such thing as luck." If that is the case, the Force must be strong with Jar Jar indeed.
    Saying that Queen Amidala is absolute ruler of Naboo, but then telling us that she was democratically elected. What society would give supreme executive power to a 14 year-old, unless it was a hereditary monarchy?
    Why does Theed look like 13th century Europe above ground and the Death Star below ground?
    Why would an underwater race like the Gunguns possess technology like the shield generators...and the 'droid killing' bubbles? And why are they so ready for battle...who are their enemies?
    Anakin's blowing the station up with one, randomly-fired shot
    Boss Nass' agreeing to help humans just because they kneel
    Qui-Gon requesting Jar Jar as a navigator then never using him to navigate.
    Darth Maul has no personality, aside from looking sinister. This eliminates any dramatic tension in the final duel. A phantom menace, indeed.
    Bad Nimoidian lip-synching, and the Charlie Chan accents.
    Dumb-ass ESP test the Jedi give to Anakin
    The Naboo may be incredibly advanced in architecture, art, and sculpture, but they don't know squat about handrails around bottomless pits
    Lack of activity on the part of the Jedi. We never hear from most of the Jedi Council. Why don't the Jedi ever go and kick ass?
    ID4 plot device of having BattleDroids controlled by Space Station, knocked out by lone pilot
    Anakin's 'auto-pilot' sucking him into the space station. Why doesn't R2D2 deactivate it?
    Confusing plot device of Queen and her double. Why didn't Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan figure this out?
    James Bond "Thunderball" scuba mouthpieces that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan just happen to have - (Why would they bring those to a negotiation on a *spaceship*??? Do they carry them around in their utility belts???)
    Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are bone dry in the Gungan city, after swimming through water to get there
    Lack of suspense (a la trash compactor, space slug escape, walking plank of Jabba's skiff)
    The Queen's ever-changing outfits
    CGI's cartoony physics: Jar Jar's dive into the water, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's fall from the chutes on the Trade Federation ship, Darth Maul's jump off of his speeder bike.
    Obvious and contrived maneuvering of Anakin into Naboo fighter
    Qui-Gon promises to protect the Q
  2. SabreBlade Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2001
    Anakin can been seen in the same contents as Jesus with his virgin Mother Mary.
    The battle droids did well enough against the Naboo gaurds and the Gungans but come on, they don't stand a chance against the Jedi. But then again, few do.
    Quin-Gon didn't beam nothing to Obi-Wan. The comlink analyised the blood sample and then sent a signal to Obi-Wan.
    You may forget he is only nine years old. Just about all children are called nicknames like that.
    Droids are incredibly expensive. Slaves are won on bets and even if they are purchased, they are cheaper than droids.
    C-3PO is made out of junk and spare parts. Seeing Anakin works in a junk shop, I think that there are a lot of spare parts lying around.
    Anakin knows Mos Espa like the back of his hand. I think he would have known if anyone else had the hyperdrive.
    I don't see what was wrong with Anakin's fare well.
    The Queen/Padme didn't want to just sit around and to nothing. That is why she wen to Mos Espa.
    GL gets inspiration from all over world. He didn't want Theed to look like a typical sci-fi city. There is great diversity throughout the Republic.
    The Gungans are prepared to fight when ever the situation arises. They realise that they may have to fight on land as well as in the swamps.
    Luke, while a better pilot than Anakin when he blew the death star up, used the force and he only a tiny bit of force training.
    Boss Nass helped the Naboo because it was the only way in which they could win. They rather peace with the Naboo than hostilities with them.
    Qui-Gon brought Jar-Jar along because he thought that he might be useful. Turns out he was. He united the Gungans with the Naboo.
    Darth Maul wasn't the Phantom Menace. That was Darth Sidious. He's a phantom beacause nobody knows that he is behind the the invasion.
    I agree partially. Sometimes they were talking and the lips were not moving.
    The test is good enough. However, I don't see why Mace had to nod to Yoda to indicate that he passed. Yoda should know anyway.
    I agree. If they wnew that the Sith were involved, I would think they would send many Jedi.
    The droids need to get a power source from somewhere.
    R2-D2 did deactivate the autopilot. It just took until they were in the middle of the battle.
    They didn't figure it out because they assumed that there was no deception. If Qui-Gon had probed Padme's ming whil in Mos Espa, then he would have figured it out. But he didn't so he couldn't tell.
    Jedi carry many useful devices in there utiliy belts. They would carry them whereever they go. You never know when it will come in handy.
    [spoilers]
    Like in eII, Obi-Wan is meant to pull a tracking device out of his belt and throw it onto Slave I after his fight with Jango on the roof top.

    They are dry because of that clear wall thing that they walk through.
    What about the pod race (even though we knew Anakin would win) or they two sabre duels?
    The Queen changes according to the situation. That is why she wore a different outfit during the senate session. Obviously she wore different clothes during the final battle.
    I don't see what was wrong with it. Everything in the movie looked real to me.
    He wasn't exactly going to jump in the fighter and then go and blow it up. As it tuns out, he accidently pushed the buttons.
    If Naboo soldiers blasted at Darth Maul, he would have deflected the bolts back at them. They saw the Jedi do it so why can't Maul. What else could Qui-Gon do. Just hope Maul would leave them alone. He protected the Queen by keeping maul away.
    Yoda is old so that is why he uses his cane. When he has to move quickly he can. But why do and use up energy when you don't have to.
    Just a bit of Jar-Jar comedy (for the kids).
    What was wrong with it. At the very start Qui-Gon tells Obi-Wan to 'be mindful of the living force, young padawan.' That establishes the relationship straight away. He is also a lot more wiser than Obi-Wan.
    Why do yo think Maul led them down that way?
    Anakin goes where Qui-Gon goes. He promised his mother that he would look out for him.
    Senator Palpatin
  3. SabreBlade Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2001
  4. Humble extra Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 1999
    star 5
    you made some good points
  5. Silmarillion Manager Emerita/Ex RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 1999
    star 6
    Just edited a slight spoiler out of your post, SabreBlade. You can still highlight to read it.
  6. Sith Interceptor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 1999
    star 4
    are we still critising a movie released over 2 years ago?

    I'm not sure what's sadder:

    1. your poor attempts to paraphrase the shortcomings of the latest SW installment.

    OR

    2. the time you wasted in order to show us your contempt for the movie.

  7. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    Actually, it was something someone emailed me I thought I'd post here to generate intelligent discussion, sorry, wrong crowd for that...
  8. soneil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    The fact that he's pointing out flaws in the movie doesn't mean he doesn't like it. Before fanforce, I used to spend a lot of time on rec.arts.sf.starwars.misc debating the finer points of the film. My line was generally I really liked TPM but... and I would point out things I think could have been done better in the film.
    Full credit to SabreBlade for giving decent responses to each of the original points. I think that's the sort of discussion SM was hoping for.
  9. SoulKrusher Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2000
    star 4
    I quite liked the film and if its one thing I hate its critics! Damn them!
  10. Sith Interceptor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 1999
    star 4
    Intelligent discussion?

    Sorry, haven't heard of it. ;)

  11. soneil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    Well this certainly seems a god place to post my gripes about TPM. Loved the movie but as I said, there's a few things I think could have been a lot better.

    Jarjar. As most of you know, I'm a Jarjar fan. I do think he was overdone though. You know what my favourite Jarjar scene was? The scene where he's telling the queen about the Gungan's 'grand army'. I thought that scene gave us a look at the real Jarjar. The one behind the clumsy exterior. It was the only really serious scene he had. I like a lot of his not so serious moments but they were overdone. Would it have been too much to ask for them to have Jarjar actually do something heroic on purpose during the big battle? A bit of comic relief's all very well but a bit of balance is needed. Even Threepio was capable of genuine bravery in some situations. In Episode II I hope to see a lot more of Jarjar's serious side with the comic side toned down. (note: that's not an invitation for any spoiler lovers to go telling me exactly what jarjar will be doing in EPII)

    The space battle. I though the attack on the federation ship was probably the lamest part of the film. Try comparing that to either death star battle or the Hoth battle. No comparison. In each major battle in the original trilogy, you kinda got to know the pilots even if you only saw each one briefly. You wanted them to win. The pilots in bravo squadron never seemed to be any more than extras. Now I can accept Anakin being a decent pilot at a young age but we saw no evidence of that apart from the podrace. I would have liked to have seen him at least use a bit of skill/force to shoot back at the enemy fighters. Perhaps even take one down. Doing everything by luck was a bit rich. It would have been a lot more believable for me if there'd been at least a hint of the force guiding his lucky actions. Anyone see any federation fighters taken out? Didn't think so. It really wasn't a dog-fight as the ones in all the other movies were. Seemed like a token effort to me.

    I think a few of Darth Maul's lines that were cut from the script would have been better off left in. Those few extra lines showed that Darth Maul not only looked mean and fought well. He actually had a brain too. He wasn't just Palpy's yes-man. I think a few of those extra lines in particular would have shown a bit of cunning and made him seem that much more formiddable.

    I didn't think much of the podrace commentators.

    They're a few points. They're well and truly out-weighed by things I liked about the film though.
  12. soneil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 4
    Well this certainly seems a good place to post my gripes about TPM. Loved the movie but as I said, there's a few things I think could have been a lot better.

    Jarjar. As most of you know, I'm a Jarjar fan. I do think he was overdone though. You know what my favourite Jarjar scene was? The scene where he's telling the queen about the Gungan's 'grand army'. I thought that scene gave us a look at the real Jarjar. The one behind the clumsy exterior. It was the only really serious scene he had. I like a lot of his not so serious moments but they were overdone. Would it have been too much to ask for them to have Jarjar actually do something heroic on purpose during the big battle? A bit of comic relief's all very well but a bit of balance is needed. Even Threepio was capable of genuine bravery in some situations. In Episode II I hope to see a lot more of Jarjar's serious side with the comic side toned down. (note: that's not an invitation for any spoiler lovers to go telling me exactly what jarjar will be doing in EPII)

    The space battle. I thought the attack on the federation ship was probably the lamest part of the film. Try comparing that to either death star battle or the Hoth battle. No comparison. In each major battle in the original trilogy, you kinda got to know the pilots even if you only saw each one briefly. You wanted them to win. The pilots in bravo squadron never seemed to be any more than extras. Now I can accept Anakin being a decent pilot at a young age but we saw no evidence of that apart from the podrace. I would have liked to have seen him at least use a bit of skill/force to shoot back at the enemy fighters. Perhaps even take one down. Doing everything by luck was a bit rich. It would have been a lot more believable for me if there'd been at least a hint of the force guiding his lucky actions. Anyone see any federation fighters taken out? Didn't think so. It really wasn't a dog-fight as the ones in all the other movies were. Seemed like a token effort to me.

    I think a few of Darth Maul's lines that were cut from the script would have been better off left in. Those few extra lines showed that Darth Maul not only looked mean and fought well. He actually had a brain too. He wasn't just Palpy's yes-man. I think a few of those extra lines in particular would have shown a bit of cunning and made him seem that much more formiddable.

    I didn't think much of the podrace commentators.

    They're a few points. They're well and truly out-weighed by things I liked about the film though.
  13. Sock-Puppet Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2001
    star 1
    If TPM failed then why do you care to discuss it? You don't see me on the ID4 boards now do you? That was an apalling movie.
    Enjoy it or forget it.
  14. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    Does anyone actually read an entire thread before they post?
    I was emailed that list I posted, I do not agree with all of the points listed, although I believe that a lot of them have merit.
    If you look back over the last few posts, I made it clear I posted them simply to generate some discusion ON THOSE POINTS.
    Yes I agree the film came out 2 years ago and that there's nothing that can change it, and we should all be looking forward to the next 2 installments, but I pity you if you feel that the only discussion you can generate is a flame war with anyone who doesn't agree that Lucas can do no wrong.
    I'll say it again, I don't agree with all the points I posted, it was a list a friend emailed to me, and I felt that by posting them here, we could have an intelligent discussion on those points, we all have differing views and I'm interested in hearing other ppl's opinions on those 50 points.
    In short, if you have something to contribute to the discussion, by all means post.
    If all you want to do is flame me for posting something to talk about, then get a life.

    Just a question for you though Sock Puppet, is that really your user name? or are you just stirring trouble from behind a mask?
  15. Sock-Puppet Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 25, 2001
    star 1
    I'm not the one who posted a huge list for discussion without sourcing it and then had a wobbly.

    ditto on the flame whine.

    Is sith magician your real name? I am only pointing to the fact that no one is who they say they are on the internet. That is the fun of communicating as beings of pure light.

    BTW if you want to generate intelligent discussion (and by that I don't mean talk to people who agree with you) try bringing one or two salient points at a time, instead of flooding the thread with 50 points that no one can be bothered reading (although I did)and keep track of.

    Keep it simple stupid!!

  16. Sith Magician Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1999
    star 5
    Actually, I never asked if it was your real name, rather your real user name, as in the name others know you by, or someone else using a "sock puppet"
    Besides, the mail I recieved was posted here as is, as I pointed out, to generate discussion.
    I regret not having the foresight to explain to aggression seeking individuals such as yourself that I didn't agree with the whole lot when I posted it.
    However, I saw no need to explain to anyone the fact that this was posted here after recieving it from someone else, I thought ppl could get right on with the discussion, as Sabre Blade did, without having to resort to flaming in blind defense of a film.
    No I don't agree with all the points, no I don't think Lucas can do no wrong either.
    Your last post SP was just another attempt at riling me, I'm neither mad nor "chucking a wobbly", I just wonder what your intentions are.
    You obviously are in some need of attention.
  17. JediLeia21 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 4
    look sockpuppet no one forced you to read this thread and post , i thought fanforce was place were we could talk peacefully and joke with other board members, not to flame them for making a thread in the boards , the amswer is simple SP , if you don't wish to read it , don't read it , but if you read it and disagree with the answers , just remember to keep your post tactful , they are real people with real feelings and some people might be extremely hurt with that just keep that in mind when you post next time ok
  18. Jedi Daniel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2000
    star 5
    Well SM was just making some points about TPM. Saberblade I have to agre with you on alot of your points. TPMw as a wonderful film with great actors, stroyline and CGI. Sock Puppet, if you can't say something nice, don't say it at all.


    Kind Regards
    Jedi Daniel
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