A question to all fanfic writers

Hi from Italy! In these weeks i had some healt problems and i spent much time at home. I enjoyed with your fanfics, some are boring some are funny, some are great, in general all are entertaining like and more a SW profesional book.

I wanted to ask all the writers one thing:
don't you think that in the fanfictions ( i mean in the TFN fanfictions ) there is too much space given to inner meditations, long and long and long monologues that make seem Hamlet a man of action? I ( and i said I, this is a personal opinion ) would really prefere more dialogues and more action, more plot, more history and less meditations. There are many fanfictions consisting only in one of the carachters being in some place and reflecting about his life!

Well, please not take this as polemic, i would really like to know if the others "readers" of TFN fan fiction agree with me or not, and why. This can be a way to make friendship. Anyone who also wants to write me is welcome: artdaz@supereva.it

May the force be with you !

 

ArtDaz, I think you posed the question in an unnecessarily combative way, but it is something I've wondered about from time to time--why is fanfic so drawn to character analysis via ponderings rather than character exploration via action, particularly in regard to a franchise which has largely done its characterization through action?

For myself, I always found action writing difficult, so the character work tends to go more quickly and easily, but I've been using fanfic in an action franchise to make myself write action scenes, or at the very least work with sequential plots--event based more than character based, though of course characterization remains and will remain important to me.

But I've been writing for a long time now (more than two thirds of my life), and thinking back to the gray mists of the beginning, I remember writing as an alternative to acting. The first things I wrote were soliloquys for drama club, and I think that's the form that we frequently call the vignette in fanfic. Hamlet is probably a good comparison in that way... it's a character commenting aloud for the benefit of the audience on what his or her motivations are.

I think this is very believable with some characters (depending on the nature of the piece, of course, and whether or not it's in character). Obi-Wan is given to thoughtful introspection, and Padme analyzes everything to death. I question it with Anakin, because if he were that self-aware in regard to his emotions and motivations, I doubt he would have ended up making the mistakes he does. Anakin tends to feel and act rather than reflect and analyze.

 

I'm a poet and romantic at heart, and I love to find that own soft-spot in all of the characters I write. Thus, I slowly unwrap the layers of characters through action-response- not what the action was, but how it affected the character.

 

Interesting thought...

I like the opportunities that the writen word gives us to explore these characters in a way that the screen doesn't allow. We can only imagine what's going through their minds when we watch them on the screen.. judge them by their actions and not their 'though processes'. Writing gives us a chance to explore things like motivation, emotions and what not in ways we think and feel the characters might.

Just my .02 as a writer who likes playing with such things.

 

Sorry to hear about your health problems. It is a valid question, and there are probably many reasons that there are more stories that deal with the exploration of thoughts rather than action. The biggest reason most likely is that many stories are written by beginning authors and they might find it easier to write about feelings which is something they can draw on from life experiences. Action is a little harder to write and not as popular with female writers, who make up the majority of the authors here, so that might factor in.

Also, people often want to explore what if's and that generally involves explaining how their motivations differ from the cannon, when set in a AU.

 

I think saying that it's primarily 'begining writers' who avoid writing action is a bit of an unfair generalization.

Some people just don't don't find writing about battles and duels that interesting. At least 'outward' battles and duels... it all really boils down to individual preferances, both in writing and reading choices.

 

I went to a writers workshop and I found that some readers prefered more show than tell.

Show the characters feelings.

Some stories started with who was the person and what that person was doing before the incident or the action happened.

This add some suspense to the story. Some readers love to know more about their characters deep thoughts.

The problem with the action it is the sentences are short such as "he move, she jumped, stop"

Some reader can get dizzy with too much action.

Please forgive me for my spelling and grammar.

I just was tossing some ideas.

 

No, Breezy, I'm not saying they are any overly big cause, just that new authors would more likely shy away from doing complicated action scenes. I certainly didn't mean it as any slight. It just depends on what you are comfortable writing.

 

Well, like Jaded Skywalker said, I'm a romantic at heart, so romances and inner struggles just seem to come natural to me. However, I try to include action, but I find that a bit more difficult to write.

Some authors on the board can write nonstop action beautifully, not making it short little sentances, but full on paragraphs so that it flows very easily.

I wouldn't say it's fair to generalize the JC as long-winded stories focusing on characters themselves. There is such a wide variety of types of stories here that you couldn't generalize any one type. However, we do tend to have a lot more love stories than action stories, don't we?

 

I think saying that it's primarily 'begining writers' who avoid writing action is a bit of an unfair generalization.

Some people just don't don't find writing about battles and duels that interesting. At least 'outward' battles and duels... it all really boils down to individual preferances, both in writing and reading choices.

DB, I don't think that's exactly what's meant. Action can be battles and duels, but it can also be an intense love scene, or a dialogue between two characters, or a class in the Temple. That's action in story terms because it's moving a plot forward. ArtDaz can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the problem wasn't with stories about inner conflicts, but in pieces which are more of the "rumination" sort--not really a conflict at all, just a reflection. It's the difference between writing Anakin sitting on the porch thinking about how much he loves Padme and how much she means to him, and a story about... well, him making her a rocker chair.

 

I'm thue same "type" like JadedSkywalker, but I have one drawback : I'm not good at all at writing action.

 

It's the difference between writing Anakin sitting on the porch thinking about how much he loves Padme and how much she means to him, and a story about... well, him making her a rocker chair.



*Furious blushing*


Ahhhh, you got me there!

Yes, in which case I would agree... in other words, the vast differance between Romance and mush. Two characters sitting around saying 'I wuv woo' 'I wuw woo too' and actually acting on it... (and I don't mean body slapping lip grinding all out serious Jedi nookie, but a discription of an activity, oh say a visit to a Sand Fair right? )

 

The Star Wars films are best known for their quick action and rapid storytelling style. Lucas oftentimes sacrifices character developement so he can visually move the storyline along. The published EU books tend to follow along that line.

I think many of us who write fanfic do so because we love the characters. Since we are not forced into writing our tales as our editors would dictate, we tend to delve into introspectives on the characters behalves. It's oftentimes easier to express what's going on in a characters head than explain what's going on in an action sequence.

I prefer stories that blend all story elements, introspectives, action, adventure, romance, etc. It does take time to learn to perfectly balance these things when writing. Sometimes it's hard to judge when you should and should not delve into characters thoughts, and when to just explain what's going on in the sequence. Learning this balance comes from time and experience. If done properly, character introspective scenes can be as useful, and as dramatic as any space battle.

 

I'm sorry to hear of your poor health, Art.

I have to say I agree with you. I can only read so much musing before I lose interest. I'm known for having a short attention span, so too much of anything, be it action or inner reflection, makes my mind start to wander

I often worry that my stories have too much dialogue. Do you think there's such a thing as too much interaction between characters and not enough insight into their thoughts? I just figured that everything needs a balance to be good. I need my action, humor, mush, angst, and AU all rolled into one. That's what makes a good story, in my opinion.

Jae Angel

ED: Must finish sentences!

 

I think so far we all agree that too much of a good thing is bad. We all like a good mix of writing elements - action, introspection, etc., but too much of one or the other (including dialogue - I've seen stories that aren't in script form where it's entirely written in dialogue and I couldn't figure out what was going on inside the characters' heads). I know there are times when I spend far too much time writing about what a character is thinking, but I really like to know why a character does what s/he does. I want a good explanation of why a character acts a certain way, makes a certain choice - it has to be logical to me or I won't buy it, and as a result, the story. So if I have long, introspective passages in my stories, that's why.

Plus there's the fact that good action is hard to write. Art, if you want a good action story, see DarthTim's work, especially Duel of the Fates (sorry, don't have the time to dig up a link right now) - as far as I'm concerned, there's no better action writer on these boards, and his introspection ain't too bad either.

(Tim, if you read this, when are you going to get back to DotF? Just curious, no pressure... )

Cheers,

Shaindl

 

Uh, well I'm a writer of endless action and some inner reflection that advances the plot. No idea whether thats boring/not boring or what.

 

Just as long as I know why a character is frowning after saying something, for example-I'm a happy reader. That's what gets me about some modern day novels- it's all speaking and no thinking.

Though when it comes to my own writing, each frown seems to have a past of its own; a story that needs to be told.

 

I think the ratio of action to introspection must depend, to some degree, on the type of story one is writing. If the piece is a psychological study of the character, delving into the reasons for his actions, then you're going to want to dwell on his thoughts, and the result of reveries, meditations, dream states, etc.

On the other hand, if you're trying to tell the story of the Battle for Helm's Deep (Just an example, LotR fans - don't get your knickers in a twist) there's not much time to examine the maunderings of the central characters.

I do agree with JG, btw, about the various characters being predisposed to introspection - or not; Obi-WAn has always been given to pondering philosophical questions; Anakin never seemed to develop the skill or the need for it - and, yes, if he had, things might have turned out differently, for he might have learned about the qualities of empathy and true compassion, as a product of introspection.

Either type of story can be valid and entertaining - but it's all a matter of personal taste, isn't it? Ideally, a fic would balance all these different things - but that would be a very special fic, indeed, wouldn't it?

CYN

 

I think the ratio of action to introspection must depend, to some degree, on the type of story one is writing. If the piece is a psychological study of the character, delving into the reasons for his actions, then you're going to want to dwell on his thoughts, and the result of reveries, meditations, dream states, etc.

Even when it's a high introspection count, I guess my personal preference is for being indirect about this sort of thing. It always feels a bit clinical to me when people start explaining their psyches in depth. It's kind of interesting when it seems intuitively against what they've been saying in the past (Anakin stating that he wants to end the destructive conflict when he's been the one leading the chase--gives a real glimpse into what he believes his motivations to be!).

But I think most people aren't really that aware of their deepest motivations, and even when they are, they can be a bit uncomfortable with them, and I think many people are likely to couch them in symbolic, dreamlike terms rather than say it outright.

For instance, in Ascension of the Queen, the plot required an introspection scene, in which Amidala-as-Lady-Vader realized how selfish she had been and where her responsibility lay, and that she was betraying herself by being irresponsible. I chose to do the scene in a deep meditative state, in which she encountered visions of her former selves (TPM Padme, AotC Padme, and an extrapolation of young mohter Padme with the twins), symbolically reintegrating them and finally bowing to then fusing with Queen Amidala. I think that was a bit heavy-handed, but I do like the way the scene turned out for the most part. But it could also have been done introspectively, eg:

Amidala sat on the rock wall and looked up at the stars after Anakin had retreated to his chamber. She could see her responsibilities in their depths. She had been delinquent. As a child, she had believed in the rightness of the system, of working through democracy. But she had betrayed that, and placed herself as a dictator. As a young woman, she had loved Anakin and wanted to save him... now, she let him continue to destroy himself even when he wanted to stop...

Etc.

Those would be true to the character, but I find it a little sterile. Both approaches deal with the introspective angle and have very little action per se, but I like the way the human mind plays games with itself whenever it approaches certain fundamental truths. We're narrative creatures, I think, and we're always making up stories, not shopping lists, to tell ourselves what we think.

I think the reason that reflection vignettes ("Obi-Wan reflects on his memories about his feelings during Qui-Gon's funeral") tend to be associated with young writers is that they are very close to diary entries--they can be very nicely done, but they tend to be an early form that people practice on. At least I think that's where it comes from. Of course, plenty of experienced writers keep diaries and write epistolary novels, so why not? It may not be a fair characterization.

 

Hey, how many answers! Thanks! )I wanted to clear some things, perhaps because this is not my main language, i gave in my post the impression to be polemic. Far from my character, and, as I said, reading your fanfictions has given me many happy hours during some bad weeks ( that are passing, thanks to all who has worried about this ).
Until now, I read almost 50 of your fictions, some very short ("snow") and some looongs ( "by the grace of lady Vader") and i noticed that the only thing that bored me were the pages of inner monologues. Personally, i prefer novels that are rich of dialogues, that's why for instance i like also to read dramathical pieces and screenplays. And I sure agree that a perfect novel, or short story, mixes dialogues, thoughts of the characters, meditations by the author, action and descriptions of the places. For instance "The Miserables" and
"War and Peace" contains all this elements well mixed. Hoping to continue the debate, mtfwy A.D.

 

Shiandl...you're making me blush here...

Anyway, as a writer best-known for his action sequences (although I'm sometimes possessed of a irrational fear of being "typecast"), I'll see if I can answer your question.

I'm biased, I'll admit (fav. subject - military history) but to me, they call it Star WARS for a reason. Are there underlying themes like redemption and good vs. evil, etc? You betcha - but the SW films move FAST, there's not a lot of "down time" in the plot and all these lofty themes take place in a universe populated by planet-destroying battle stations, characters with "laser swords," bounty hunters, characters who fly fighters or command mile-long starships that look like Satan's giant pizza wedge.

The characters are soldiers, politicians, Jedi/Sith, officers, or fast-living smugglers and gamblers. TPM's plot centers around an invasion/occupation, AOTC's about the beginning of a civil war, and the OT plot is, of course, about a bunch of ragtag rebels attempting to take down a massive, evil Empire. There hasn't been a SW film without a battle somewhere.

What I'm getting at is that SW naturally lends itself to action, and when you look at the PT, to a complicated plot with many subplots and deliberately unanswered questions.

As to personal preference - if I wanted to read a philosophy textbook or a romance novel, why would I go to a SW fanfic board? I like fics with a "Star-Warsy" feel, in that they have plenty of action, adventure, and lots of stuff going on without a lot of "filler" or "dead space." I guess that's what I've always aimed for in my writing. But anyway, as I'm fond of saying, romance and "character development" are nice, but please, don't make me read through 200 pages of "character development" when the storyline is frozen in suspended animation. IMHO, the worst sin I could commit as an author would be to bore my readers. Introspection, mush, etc, can be fine, in moderation like everything else, but it shouldn't be 80% of the story, or done for its own sake.

-Tim

 

I think the reason that reflection vignettes ("Obi-Wan reflects on his memories about his feelings during Qui-Gon's funeral") tend to be associated with young writers is that they are very close to diary entries--they can be very nicely done, but they tend to be an early form that people practice on. At least I think that's where it comes from. Of course, plenty of experienced writers keep diaries and write epistolary novels, so why not? It may not be a fair characterization.

Hmmmm! Don't think I can quite agree with your main premise here. As one who actually wrote that particular scene (and I was NOT young at the time, I can assure you), my primary interest was in taking something that had been done - and done - and done - and seeing if I could find a fresh approach.

As for providing 'clinical'- ie: boring - introspection and having a character evaluate his own actions and motives - I don't think psychological studies do that at all. If one wrote that "Ani remembered thus-and-so, and this caused him to decide yada, yada" then you would be on target - very boring. But if one describes the memory - or the dream - or the nightmare - or the result of the meditation - and then allows the reader to speculate on the meaning - then you get into intriguing possibilities and true character interpretation.

All just from my perspective, of course, since I'm clearly not a particularly good action writer, and must have been 'boring' my poor readers to death all this time.

CYN

 

As one who actually wrote that particular scene (and I was NOT young at the time, I can assure you),

Did you? I'm sorry, I made that one up as I was writing, just trying to come up with as many introspection words as I could. Didn't mean to cite a particular story.

I don't mind--and actually rather like--dream sequences. But I think Breezy hit it on the head when she described it as the distinction between romance and mush.

Could a reflection upon memories be done well? Possibly. My preference would be for the memories themselves rather than a reflection upon them.

"Clinical" wasn't used to mean "boring"--it does bore me, but it's not what I meant by it. I mean that it's usually sterile--people not only listing their feelings, but being right about those feelings and not having any muddled interpretations of them. There's also often a lack of specificity involved. "I felt anger, and jealousy. I was enraged." Fine, but what did that feel like? Or, more to the point: "I had been feeling anger and impotence since my mother died. How that had hurt! It felt like the center had been ripped out of my world!" Sorry... if that's the core issue, it's not going to be approached that casually or quickly. People naturally tend to dance around those issues, pick at them like they'd pick at the edges of a scab.

However (and this is where the diary comparison comes in), the person might well pour it out in a therapy session or a diary page. In both of those cases, I'd question whether or not we were getting at the actual truth and wonder about the reliability of the narrator--I'd like clues as to the objective reality just to get a sense of how accurate the self-observation is--but it could conceivably come out that way if the person was interested in self-analysis.

 

I usually try to balance external conflict, plot pace and internal conflict. For me the balance is necessary. Yes the Jedi are introspective and deep thinkers, but they are also beings of instinct and action. Balance is in everything.

 

Wow, lots of responses on this board!! First of all, ArtDaz, Les Miserables is one of my favorite books too! But I have to admit, it's the looong descriptions- like at the Battle of Waterloo- that sometimes bore me in that book (although the last time I read it was years ago, so things might have changed). And it does have its fair share of reflections too, although Jean Valjean is so complex that I could read about him till the cows come home

Anyway, on to the topic at hand. Well, I have to confess that I'm a young writer (15), and I do tend to write introspective fics. And most of the things you guys have said about young and inexperienced writers go for me . I know that the Star Wars films and books are fast-paced, action-filled, and adventurous, with only a little romance thrown in, and that's what keeps them interesting. My sister always tells me that the best romantic movies are the ones that leave you wanting more, and that definitely goes for my favorite couple, Han and Leia. But I started writing fan fic because I was fascinated by all the characters, and I wanted to explore their inner motives and thoughts...I want as much of Han, Luke, Mara, Leia, Padme, Obi-Wan, etc. as I can get, and I want to see how they respond on a personal level to events that happen on the galactic scale.

For example, when Alderaan was destroyed, I can only imagine how devastated Leia was. Here she is, 18 years old, and everything she's ever loved is taken from her in 30 seconds...and she never gets time to grieve (at least not on screen). It's also never mentioned again in the movies, although I'm sure that had to be one of the driving forces behind her determination to get rid of the Empire. And no one ever mentions the effect that must have had on how she viewed personal relationships. I just find it fascinating to explore all these things, and I'm glad that some fan fics supply the motivation and thought processes that are responsible for the actions you see in the films and in the books.

Actions fics are great too, and I'm desperately jealous of those who can write them well. But I find that too much of an action scene bores me- I usually find myself only scanning those long, extended battle descriptions in the NJO books. And in the same way, I can't stand to read five pages of a fic about Obi-Wan reflecting over Qui-Gon's death.

Too much of anything in a fic makes it boring, so all in all, I think the best fics are those that combine action, introspection, and romance, and the best authors are those who can write them equally well.