A Woman's view of Padme, Tragic figure, heroine, victim or something else.

Rik,
To some extent yes, but even if I don't like him, some of what he says makes a lot of sense and is true. I'm mean I can agree with something somebody says, with out agreeing with everything they say or believe.

I just happen to like that particular quote, because it is TRUE!! Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. (unless its digital)

 

PLJ,
I think GL is setting this up for us that we are going to find out Padme herself is strong w/ the Force. She was never selected as a Jedi because her parents got her into public service immediately. It would take a certain amount of Force ability to be able to handle being a politician at the age Padme started

hmm I am not sure on that. I kinda like the idea that she is just naturally smart and intuitive and gifted with out it the midichlorians. Mozart was writing symphonies at 6, so why couldn't she just be naturally gifted at politics and service.

The Jedi normally take candidates into the temple before their first birthday and raise them so they dont' have family ties other than the order. I would imagine the parents have a say (I certainly hope so!), but by the time she was old enough for school or public service she would have been to old. Anakin was too old, but got exemption because he was "chosen one" and therefore a special case.

 

"If Anakin has anything to do with Padme dying, that'll reinforce the idea that it's okay to bump off your wife if you want to turn to the dark side. I don't need to see that stereotype reinforced. I'm hoping GL won't have Anakin involved in her death."

I don't see that happening. I think he'll be told she's dead but she won't be. I have a strange feeling Padme is more in tuned w/ the Force than anyone realizes it, even herself. Wouldn't it be interesting if she simply faded away? It was her "death" that allowed Obi-Wan and Yoda to understand the true meaning of the Force? When Anakin turns, she gets this overpowering sense of self and being.

Why else would Anakin be drawn to her, if it wasn't for the fact that there was something cosmic about their relationship, that they were meant to be together.

I've just been wondering about this. When you watch the Confession scene, Anakin is standing in the darkest corners of the room, and Padme stands in the hallway, her hair is all alit with an ethereal glow from the light filtering down from the windows above. She is purity, and Anakin has descended into hell. Her shawl with the way her hands are hidden looks like a Madonna (as in Jesus' mother, not popstar) outfit. I even understand Lucas designed that outfit specifically himself. I thought that odd until I realized she looks angelic, or like a Madonna.

Wouldn't it be interesting if when she died she became a Luminous being herself? It would be the ultimate of sacrifices, much like Obi-Wan in ANH. GL said that although EP 3 would be very dark, there would be a big payoff with a lot of hope thrown in at the end.

It's a running theory, I doubt it will get played out that way, but that would explain how they could re-do the ending for ROTJ w/ Padme appearing in the Luminous group image.

 

IF all someone has to base a life on is the world of fiction then they are seriously desparetly in need of help.

Ah but fiction often mimics reality. Many a story has been based on real life, the names and faces [and sometimes particulars] of the story might be different, but the story can be very real. For example, I was watching "THE NEW DETECTIVES" for about 5 minutes last night. It's a true show. In it, some maniac in a warehouse was torturing prostitutes to death. He thought he was a modern day "JACK THE RIPPER," only he carried it much farther. His type of "abusive to women" story is not unusual or unheard of in fiction. And from your own experience you know it isn't unheard of in society.

Imagine the public outcry if a film were made glamorizing that Jeffrey Dahmer guy who killed gay men, chopped them up and ate them. The gay people are harrassed enough as it is. They'd be up in arms over something like a glamorization of Dahmer. And I wouldn't blame them. We don't need anymore negative male stereotypes to be glamorized.

Sadly, I think Anakin is going to end up being an example of just that. At least now we know he has some reason for his behavior, although not sufficient to warrant his leap to the dark side.

 

Victim victim victim. Baloney!

Padme chose freely. If HER choice turns out to be a bad one, and we all know it does, it is HER FAULT. She is not a victim of anyone or anything but HER poor decision making. She would be a victim if she was forced to marry Anakin against her will. She wasn't. End of story.

The problem here is that, as many women, Padme is attracted to a 'bad boy.' This is common. Intellectually, women like sensitive, caring, and communicative men. Instinctively, they want someone strong, powerful and aggressive to pass his genes on to their offspring. Since we no longer hunt and gather food or defend families from danger, this instinct ususally finds fruition in a 'bad boy.' Someone a little bit dangerous. The results, in real life, are often the same as in this movie - tragic, but preventable.

 

Shemp 44,

Perhaps you're right. Perhaps women who chose unwisely are the ones at fault. That's what the problem has been all along. So ladies, CHOOSE WISELY. If he's a bad boy, run in the opposite direction! FAST!

 

[of course, this alleviates any of the responsibility for bad behavior from the bad boy, but at least it won't be the lady's problem, eh?]

 

PLJ,

Interesting. It's still sad, no matter how you slice it. Madonna or no.

 

Why else would Anakin be drawn to her, if it wasn't for the fact that there was something cosmic about their relationship, that they were meant to be together.

Destiny, love at first sight, ability to see in to the future. That unexplainable something. They were meant to be together. She was drawn to him too, but in a different way, at least until they both grew up 10 years.

I've just been wondering about this. When you watch the Confession scene, Anakin is standing in the darkest corners of the room, and Padme stands in the hallway, her hair is all alit with an ethereal glow from the light filtering down from the windows above. She is purity, and Anakin has descended into hell. Her shawl with the way her hands are hidden looks like a Madonna (as in Jesus' mother, not popstar) outfit. I even understand Lucas designed that outfit specifically himself. I thought that odd until I realized she looks angelic, or like a Madonna.

I noticed that especially when they first land on Tatooine, that hooded thing she was wearing looked very Madonna like. She is definately the light in his darkness. That is why he won't kill or destroy her. She is his anchor. This is the guy who was ready to throw his entire future and many other futures away because she fell out of a transport.

In some ways, she is like a Madonna. In a sense that she loves the guy, but is also a care taker, a fixer. She is in some ways stepping in to the role of his "mother" figure. He doesn't have his mother anymore, to take care of him and make things better, now she is taking on that job. She is his lover, but in a wierd way also a mother figure.

Wouldn't it be interesting if when she died she became a Luminous being herself? It would be the ultimate of sacrifices, much like Obi-Wan in ANH. GL said that although EP 3 would be very dark, there would be a big payoff with a lot of hope thrown in at the end.

Intereting, but I don't see it happening. The hope I see at the end , is most likely in the form of our favorite twins just waiting in there respecive homes for the day when they will come into thier own. They are the New Hope(s). There may be more but.. I could be wrong (I often am.. ) The blue ghostie idea is nice and would tie in the with alternate endings mentioned earlier, but I'm not sure I can see it going in that direction.

 

I have to completely agree with the bad-boy theory. I have advanced it for years. Being a former SEAL I have seen this first hand. Besides the plethora of bimbos that throw themselves at your typical aviator or special forces type, there is a sect of intelligent women who are attracted to this "apparetnly" exciting life. The problems normally come once they get one of this "rebels" to marry them. What they once found attractive, they suddenly begin to lable childish.

For instance. And I've had this problem with my wife on occaion, but my friend has it much worse. His girlfriend was absolutely gaga about his high-powered Mustang. She loved it when he drove it at high speeds. After their nuptials, and I mean very shortly after. She was constantly nagging him about his driving.

But if a guy who drove a mini-van, wanted children, drove the speed limit, and never did anything crazy would have ever come up to this woman and asked her out. He would have been shot down hard.

 

Rikal,

This is a little off subject, but what exactly is a bimbo? You'd be surprised how many women who play dumb are actually quite intelligent but find many men are turned off by a woman that knows more than they do. [And especially if she vocalizes it because then it is apparent she is intelligent and it isn't just written on a paper somewhere]. Just a little food for thought.

The way this is winding out really gives me the creeps. Not only is Padme going to die and lose her children, but men are going to say it's her fault for making bad choices. That's scary, sad, and well, creepy.

 

Destiny, love at first sight, ability to see in to the future. That unexplainable something. They were meant to be together. She was drawn to him too, but in a different way, at least until they both grew up 10 years.

But how can it be destiny if she's picking the wrong guy? The two concepts don't have anything in common. She either chose the right guy and it's a glorious destiny/love at first sight event, OR she chose the wrong guy and it's a delusion designed to destroy her life.

 

of course, this alleviates any of the responsibility for bad behavior from the bad boy, but at least it won't be the lady's problem, eh?

NO Bad boys are responsible for what ever wrongs they create. There is no justification for beating your wife, (to use an example). That is clearly wrong and something I find extrememly abhorant.

However if I woman is dating a guy who treats her like crap and she agree's to continue in a relationship with this guy and marry him, well she pretty much invited a whole lot of trouble in to her life. She doesn't deserve to be hit, but if she should have ran and not gotten involved with him and she would be safe. She volunteered to be his victim. He still deserves to be punished and is very much responsible for his actions. That doesn't make her a total innocent victim in this case (unless she is seriously mentally/psychollogically challanged).

If one jumps into a school of sharks, one must not be suprised to find themselves bitten.

If she was just a random stranger in a crowd that would be different.

 

I wonder if GL was aware people would view Padme as responsible for what will happen to her? I bet he didn't. I bet he was thinking he could tap into that old mythological vein of damsel in distress dies because of evil people, feel bad for damsel. It doesn't sound as if any of us are going to believe that by the time she dies. It sounds as if we will all be thinking.. stupid woman should've picked obi wan. (of course, obi wan wasn't interested in a relationship with padme in the last two episodes, so really, it should be stupid woman, should've stayed single.

Lots of good messages in this one, eh?

 

I don't think Padme is stupid for picking Anakin. Granted the whole slaughtering of the Tuskins would turn most people cold, but because of the way the confession scene was portrayed, you know Anakin is completely conflicted w/ his emotions. Padme also knows first hand how much his mother meant to him.

I just don't see that Anakin will ever lash out on Padme. She will be his rock, the only real light in his life until he thinks she is dead.

Undomiel, I don't know what to say to you. Obviously you completely believe everything that happens to Padme is unfair, that she's an idiot for falling for Anakin, and that it's not fair he gets to be redeemded, whereas she is forgotten.

We haven't seen EP 3 yet. I have a feeling Padme will have a huge role in the film. I don't see, up to this point, why Padme shouldn't have fallen in love with him. Years ago, he saved her planet from doom, then in present day, he saved her life and then her soul by reminding her she is a woman as well as a politician.

Yes the warning signs of his pending doom are there and maybe she was hasty to just give herself to Anakin. But in a weird way they really complete each other, a moth to a flame if you will.

I'm sorry if you see Padme as a victim of some sort. I don't. She made her own choices, and when it comes to it in the end she was true to herself and she did her duty for the Republic. She was always the vessel of hope, peace and goodness for the Republic, we know that from one of her first memorable lines "I will not condone an action that will lead us to war."


By giving birth to the twins, she was able to reignite the flame of peace that Palpatine extinguished in the Galaxy.
She gives her son away, because his life would be threatened if he stayed with her. Palpatine always hated her, hated her for the freedom she represented as a young elected Queen. It's quite apparent that in Palpatine's Empire, women have no place. Had he known she was alive, with a son, the Emperor himself would have hunted her down personally. If he found out she had a daughter, he wouldn't have given her a second glance.

Padme is practical and rational above all else. Anakin helps spark a new interest in life for her, but above all else her passion is for the Republic. Given that passion is her main love, the love of her people, and justice for people, her actions are far more heroic than if she sat around hiding her whole life.

I can't justly scream anything is unfair, or to pass judgement on GL about Padme's predicament until I see Ep 3 and see how things turn out.

 

Obviously you completely believe everything that happens to Padme is unfair

I view it a little differently than you recall it here. To me, she isn't the one making the BIG mistakes, he is, but she pays for both of their mistakes with her life and the loss of her children. If you follow what other people are saying here, the brunt of the responsibility for her dilemma will be squarely on her shoulders. Especially if he plays no part in her death and freaks out because of it. Everyone will be thinking, "Poor Ani!" "Stupid Padme." lol I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.

 

But how can it be destiny if she's picking the wrong guy? The two concepts don't have anything in common. She either chose the right guy and it's a glorious destiny/love at first sight event, OR she chose the wrong guy and it's a delusion designed to destroy her life.

No he is not the wrong guy, necessarily. A bad choice, yes maybe, but destiny is not the same thing as happily ever after. Sometimes our destiny is on a path that ends with tradegy instead of happiness. And inspite of whatever else, they do really love each other.

With out the two of them together L/L would never be. Anakin would not have been turned back, The Emperor would not have been shafted.

My ex was definately a very bad choice on my part, but with out him, I wouldn't have the best little red headed terror on the planet, who I love very much. For that I will be greatful. And as for what his destiny is, that remains to be seen. Perhaps there was a higher purpose in everything. Perhaps not. There was no excuses for his behavior, but I got bit because I swam with the sharks. Responsibiltiy is a two way street.

 

Bit, yes. But you still have your life and your child. Padme doesn't. Even though she is a fictional character, there are women out there that this type of stuff actually happens to. You are probably intimately aware of how possible that might be, so I'm rather confused why you would not see Padme as the victim in this, especially considering how it is going to end up. All that's left is to find out HOW it ends up that way. Want to lay odds with me now that many will feel bad for Anakin and think Padme was inevitably responsible for what happened to him as well, because she married him in the first place? Let's bet now.
"Chewy, bring my utility belt."

 

Yes the warning signs of his pending doom are there and maybe she was hasty to just give herself to Anakin. But in a weird way they really complete each other, a moth to a flame if you will I always think of them, as two halves that are more whole when they are together. They bring out the best and the worst in each other.

She is not responsible for what happens to her, that is to say she didn't directly cause it (that we know of). She simply volunteered for the situation. I don't see as black/white as stupid woman poor guy. It is much to complex to be that simple. And she is definatly not the "damsel in distress" more like to Quote Carrie Fisher "a distressing damsel".

Everybody makes choices, our choices impact not only ourselves but others as well. Anakin and Padme both made thier choices. And they will have far reaching consequences on future events.

Like it has been said. WE can't speak fully on this till 2005 when we know how it really ends up.

We knew even before EpII, that they were going to get toghether somehow, and that it wouldn't end up happily ever after.

 

I think the only way to resolve this is to have them die together and Anakin be the only one that is resurrected. Or something to that effect. But if he's resurrected with half his body missing, he's not going to have the presence of mind to know what happened or where she is, so that would remove the possibility of an immediate mourning scene (a'la Shmi) from the moment and might lessen its overall impact.

 

Bit, yes. But you still have your life and your child. Padme doesn't. Even though she is a fictional character, there are women out there that this type of stuff actually happens to. You are probably intimately aware of how possible that might be, so I'm rather confused why you would not see Padme as the victim in this, especially considering how it is going to end up.

I guess because I don't see her as passively just sitting there while all this stuff just "happens" to her. I dont' see my life like that either. I am not just a passenger along for the ride. I view my life as a series of challanges and obstacles to overcome or work around. If she had just layed down and died, and did nothing when things started happening then YES I would say she was a victim.

But she isn't. When things start going wrong, I will bet credits to hyperdrives that she will be anything put a passive rider. She will come out fighting. She will actively choose to hide her children even though it breaks her heart, (as opposed to just having them taken from her). She will try to stop Palpy/Sid in whatever way she can. She will be very heart broken to loose Anakin (if indeed she lives to see it). She may or may not be murdered, but I guarantee she will not just roll over adn die. No matter how broken her spirit, she will keep on as long as she has breath.

Do you see yourself as someone things happen too, or as someone who meets each challange and has a say in what happens to her life?

For one's take of Padme its all "From a certain point of view".

All that's left is to find out HOW it ends up that way. Want to lay odds with me now that many will feel bad for Anakin and think Padme was inevitably responsible for what happened to him as well, because she married him in the first place? Let's bet now.

We can't debate the how until we have actually seen it, but while some people may see it that way. I like to think most people are smart enough to realize it is a lot more complicated than that. Marrying Anakin doesn't make her responsible for his action, only he has that responsiblity. It just means she volunteered for the ride.

 

Do you see yourself as someone things happen too, or as someone who meets each challange and has a say in what happens to her life?

Both, of course. Couldn't explain away things like breast cancer. Could explain my decision to have the masectomy. Could explain the fact my hair (WAAAH!) is falling out. Could explain why you left your lesser half. Yada yada.

Well, I relent. You know my real position on this anyway, that being it's all symbollic of Anakin's redemption path. But since it's being portrayed as a group of distinct individuals, I thought I'd harp on the woman-victimized idea some more. Gives us something to think about.

 

Both, of course. Couldn't explain away things like breast cancer. Could explain my decision to have the masectomy. Could explain the fact my hair (WAAAH!) is falling out. Could explain why you left your lesser half. Yada yada.

yup, but you are still fighting it. You could have crawled in bed, skpped the docs and just died. But you keep fighting it, because you aren't passive. If you were you wouldn't keep arguing that which you feel strongly about. Whether or not we agree or see eye to eye, we both seem to have strong opinions and are good at defending ourselves. And we are both still here and kicking.

Something's we have no control over (such as cancer or mental illness), but they are still battles we either choose to fight, or choose to surrender to. It may have just happened for reasons non of us can answer, but how we deal with it is up to us. There are many times I would love to crawl under the bed and ignore the world, but I can't. I don't think you do either. And neither will Padme. That's why I can't see her as a victim.

Friend still?

 

Friend still?

Naturally. Why not? I take it I was getting on your nerves? Distressing damsels abound.

 

actually no!!

Its nice to disagree with someone intelligently rather than wiht *(&#(**&#(*!!
and name calling etc.. that can happen on these boards sometimes.. Lots to think about all around..