ST Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode IX

Kylo Ren is Ben Solo. He’s not being possessed. The narrative does not use the two names interchangeably (as it didn’t for Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader) but I see no evidence that we’re supposed to morally attribute everything bad Kylo does/says to anyone other than Kylo/Ben.

 

That's something I've thought about. When do they stop telling this type of story? Let's say Ben is redeemed and/or Rey is somehow really a Skywalker. Presumably they'll be making more Star Wars movies for the next couple of decades which means the writers of those future films are in a pickle: they draw a line in the sand after Ep. 9 and every descendant of the Skywalker family remains on the light side or the writers at some point tell yet another story about a Skywalker family member turning to the dark side.

I guess the other option is for Ben and/or Rey (if she were a Skywalker) to not have kids.

 

I think we may well get movies about Rey, Finn, Poe, ect... set after IX, but these might come as stand alone's, not as a trilogy.

 

I just hope this doesn't get him stereotyped as a angst ridden angry character actor. Because he's so much more then that, as is Daisy, John, Oscar, and Kelly.

 

Actually he's not. He recently did Logan Lucky where his comedic timing shined quite nicely. He actually has this underappreciated knack for comedy. This is where I leave you with Tina Fey is also a very funny movie.

And he plays the eponymous character in the film Paterson, which is just a gorgeous character piece about a nice everyday guy with an eccentric wife, a grumpy dog who is a bus driver that loves to write poetry. This movie had a lot of international acclaim and was well received at Cannes.

People quickly jump to the Adam Sackler character and Kylo Ren and think angsty, immature and angry is all he does, but Adam Driver actually has quite a broad range of abilities and his films reflect it nicely.

 

The dog drives a bus and writes poetry? That is one impressive dog.

 

I saw that movie. I loved how the dog was the antagonist and listed on the credits. I would list animal "actors" on the credits too.

 

"Your son is gone. He was weak and foolish, like his father. So I destroyed him."

 

And Darth Vader “betrayed and murdered” Anakin.

Remember how LST talks to Kylo. He gives it to him straight and refuses to pretend that Ben Solo is a different person than Kylo.

By pointing out Ben Solo and Kylo Ren are the same person, I’m not saying that before he fell, Ben was a “bad seed.” I’m simply saying that that the two names should not be used to treat Ben Solo as an innocent lamb being controlled by an magic spell called “Kylo Ren” and thus does not have moral culpability for his crimes. He is not “Kylo Ren” only when he does something bad. He has been Kylo Ren throughout both movies.

Someone can be evil, or a bad person, or do terrible things, and still have human feelings, and be capable of less-than-terrible thoughts. Kylo is so interesting in part because he’s a villain whose pain and humanity make him no less a villain (for now, of course). Just like in real life, in fact.

I’m reminded of what Daisy said in that EW article re TLJ: “There’s always room for bad people to make good decisions and vice versa.”

Bad decisions don’t necessarily make one bad, and good decisions don’t necessarily make one good.

Good decisions can, of course, lead to redemption. But Kylo isn’t there yet. Not at all.

 

I agree, I think the PT films did a great job of showing us Anakin's reasons. I am sure I'm in the minority but I don't see the same in the ST in regards to Kylo. We seem to be constantly being told via the script or interviews what his reasons supposedly are vice it being shown through the story. I had empathy for Anakin from the first film but so far I can't find anything about Kylo that is sympathetic or relatable.

Several interviews with Rian/Adam have stated that parental neglect, family secret, are his issues but they haven't backed up any of this with what's in the film or books.

According to the new canon novels something was targeting Ben while he was still in the womb. I remember reading a passage that explained Leia felt something dark troubling her baby through the Force while she was pregnant. Bloodline specifically addresses that Leia and Han live amicably apart. Early in the marriage they discovered that their lives were too different to be living together, so outside of visits/ traveling together from time to time, Leia carried on with her duties as Senator and Han got involved in some racing circuit. A young kid may interpret that as Dad abandoned me BUT the book does establish that Han and Leia loved their son. There's a scene where Leia remembers Han holding baby Ben and talking about how he never thought he'd be a Dad and she makes a comment about him being a grandfather one day. It explains that they kept the secret of Vader's relationship because of their growing concern over Ben's propensity to do bad things with his power - possibly because he was already being hounded by Snoke. (To me this is pretty clear that they were paying attention to him and what was going on as he was growing up.) So the reason they kept the secret isn't nefarious or neglectful, it's more protective in nature. There is a mention that Leia did not feel like she was knowledgeable enough in the Force and her own powers to guide Ben regarding his force potential and resisting the dark side so she sent him to Luke. Luke was the only person she knew who had successfully rejected his own brush with the dark side AND turned their father back from it. Bloodline also says Leia left Ben an emotional, tear filled message regarding Vader but never knew if he got it or not because she was unsure of where he and Luke were at the time.

None of that sounds at all to me like Han and Leia were crap parents, specifically so bad that Han deserved to die at the hands of his son.

I've seen it mentioned that Ben thinks his parents were in on Luke's decision to kill him in his sleep. Leia wouldn't have sent her only child to her brother if she thought for one minute that Luke would have ever contemplated doing something like that. I don't see Leia and Han as co conspirators in that mess, especially after reading Bloodline.

 

less serious stuff....how will Ben look in ep9? Still with long hair? different costume to reflect his evolution? I doubt we'll see a Short-haired/shaved Kylo Ren but who knows. We'll check Adam Driver's hairstyle in 5 months! But please hire the same hairstylist than TLJ, not TFA haha. As for the costume...more regalian like a new supreme leader? or still dark prince clothes?

 

I think that EP IX was supposed to explore much deeper Leia and Kylo's relationship and reveal bit of their past.
The problem with Kylo is that it's not that he wasn't loved enough by his parents, the problem is that he didn't felt not loved enough. It's a question of perception, his parents may have been totally fine and loved him but he didn't felt it because both could have been often absent. Bloodline was only Leia's POV. I don't doubt that they were good parents but sometime parents can't see how some of their acts can be harmful, even with good intentions.
Both Leia and Han are morally strong, cold headed and independent, and they maybe expected their son to be the same. But Ben seemed to be a sensitive child with a big need of intention and affection that wasn't fullfilled. He was more similar to Anakin than to Leia and Han.
It would have been interesting to see Leia's guilt in EP IX. It would have probably be similar to the relationship between Kevin and his mother in the movie, We Need to talk about Kevin.

But now that Carrie Fisher is gone, it's going to be hard to explore all of this since we only have Kylo's distorted vision of the truth, while Leia's side of the story was also imperative (like the flashback in TLJ).

 

I really think that there are important elements of Kylo’s backstory that will be revealed in 9.

I feel like at we’re dealing with “narrative dark matter.”

 

I think they will keep his hair as is (I also prefer the less styled Ep. 8 hair) and keep the cape. He will probably get a new black costume which could be more regalian as you suggested. I think it will be something that makes him look like Supreme Leader yet still lets him blend in with his Knights of Ren.

 

Continuing on with my theory that Kylo will be visited by a mysterious little girl throughout Ep. 9 who will fill the shoes of Leia I think it might be cool if we get a scene where Kylo is possibly on a planet seemingly hunting somebody down, moving swiftly through a dense wilderness and the mood is tense and foreboding and it seems like Kylo is catching up to whoever he's stalking and then right when it seems like Kylo is about pounce on his victim...a little girl wanders out in front of him seemingly out of nowhere. He stops dead in his tracks and looks at the girl in disbelief and despite Kylo's intimidating appearance and the tense mood leading up to this moment the little girl isn't phased, she's almost cheery and shes says the man in black, "Hi! Who are you? What's your name?" This completely throws off Kylo, disarms him, confuses him and the scene comes across as slightly humorous while also being a bit off-kilter and dream like. The girl asks him more child-like questions like, "what are you doing out here and why are you dressed like that? What kind of name is Kylo?" Kylo is puzzled and slightly amused but then the girl says something like "also...why did you kill Han?" Kylo stares the girl down, immediately gets angry and demands that the girl repeat her question but she walks off. Kylo lurches forward to go after the girl, yelling "get back here!" She walks behind a tree and when Kylo rounds the tree he immediately runs into... not the girl but somebody else, Hux who's all, "Supreme Leader...who...who were you talking to?" An angry Kylo looks around and says, "no one" and walks off.

And this concludes my fanfic of the day.

 

Maybe something fancier, now that he's the Emperor and all. I'd be fine with his TLJ outfit again though, if they add chain or something to show how the cape is sticking to him. Looked awkward to me in TLJ, like he was just balancing the cape on his shoulders.

 

I think they are going like-
VII - warrior
VIII- knight
IX - king

 

I think the one of the key reasons he didn't come back with Rey is because he already killed his father. He probably couldn't bear the thought of facing his mother after that so he chooses to "let the past die".

 

"That's what snoke wants you to believe. MY SON IS ALIVE."

 

Alright, just got the best idea. Use this ol Anakin art for Kylo’s IX outfit. Marvelous.

 

Love the purple under the cape. The art of ROTS is truly one of the greatest books in my collection. About 90% of the designs in it are better than what Lucas ended up going with.

 

I agree a more Vader look for Kylo, just minus the helmet, would be a nice move for Episode 9, especially if there is a time jump by a few years. Give him a cape just like Vaders, and a more armor look underneath that looks similar to Vader's chest piece, minus the mechanical buttons.

Basically give us what Anakin probably would have worn as a Sith if he hadn't taken the lava bath.

I'd like them to do something with Driver's hair too. Tie it back like a Samurai would be cool.

 

Does anyone else think that

Ben Solo is the last jedi.

Luke only said he will not be the last jedi, he never said Rey is. He didnt even train Rey but he trained Ben for years.

I dont think Rey is a jedi yet, she is untrained and doesnt have a saber either but i am sure she will be.

But right now "Ben" is the only one with the Jedi teaching and training.
I think they purposely kept it vague.

Even Daisy said in an interview that Rey is not a jedi at the end of TLJ.

Well now that i think about it no one has actually said that Rey is the last jedi. So maybe

 

Kylo is my favourite character. I have been thinking about the scene where Luke looks into his heart and sees immense darkness. Do you think he was seeing all the evil acts we know Kylo has committed or was he seeing what Supreme Leader Ren will do? I am afraid that Kylo’s reign will be very brutal and he will indeed commit more truly heinous acts and he will die in IX. I am really hoping for redemption for him as I would like the Skywalker bloodline kept alive. I know that you do not have to be related and the stories of Luke Skywalker will inspire future generations, but I am nostalgic and do not want them to close the door on the Skywalker family forever. Ideally, I would like the light and the dark to form some sort of balance. At the very least, I hope J.J. does something novel with Kylo at the end IX and help to unite the fan base.

 

Kylo has already done enough terrible things to horrify Luke were past-Luke to see. But yeah I wouldn't be surprised if he just destroyed and destroyed as some desperate plea for attention.