Anakin isn't the Chosen One!!!!!!

Dr E,

>>>that's like saying Blofeld is the central character of the Bond series. after all he motivates everything Bond does...

and i suppose the Sherlock Holmes stories are really all about Moriarty?



I don't see the similarity, seeing as both your examples lack the "Anakin" aspect of Anakin/Vader's character.

(A far better example would have been the Joker in Batman...)

>>>yes, i know. my mistake on the choice of the word "hero". how about "protagonist"? do you think Anakin is the protagonist of the saga? would you still think so if the PT never tried to make him the protagonist, and based your evaluation of him only on the OT?

I'd say that Anakin is the protagonist of the saga, so long as you make a distinction between Anakin and Vader being seperate characters.

And no, I would not have thought so if the PT hadn't made him the protagonist, for the simple fact that he wasn't, as Luke is the protagonist of the original three films.

>>>so then (at least at the time of ESB) Anakin was never intended to be the central character of the saga...

At the time of ESB, the trilogy wasn't going to be about Luke redeeming Anakin and destroying the Emperor, so I don't see what your point is here.

 

well then i guess its hard to say who the chosen one is, since Lucas is making it up as he goes. things could change at any time.

someone will have to tell me how it turns out in episode III and after the next series of SEs, im sticking with the original OT. i have had my fill of this PT/SE revisionism balogna (or baloney, whichever you prefer)

 

You may want Luke to be the Chosen One because back when you were a little kid re-enacting your Star Wars fantasies in the backyard you thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but that does not change the story as it ultimately is being represented.

It cannot be denied that the story has been expanded ever since production of TESB. Like it or leave it, there is a grander epic being told.

I just can't fathom people's resistance to this most basic and fundamental premise of the entire saga. Back when I was 8, upon my first viewing of ROTJ in the theater, I knew with certainty that Anakin had a much larger role in the saga than just being Luke's dad. It was so obvious to me (and many others throughout the world) that Lucas had been spending the years from ANH to ROTJ mapping out the structure to his myth.

The OT just oozes with important spiritual Skywalker clan connotations that all originate from the father. It's doesn't even take a "tiny" hop of logic to believe that a prophecy could have surrounded the father's existence.

"Star Wars: Episode IV: A New Hope"

"There's nothing for me here now. I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my father."

"Hmmm....powerful Jedi was he....hmmmm.....powerful Jedi."

-"That boy was our last hope."
-"No. There is another."

"I can't do it, Ben. I can't kill my own father."

"The Force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned."

"The Emperor knew as I did. If Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him."

"The Force runs strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. And.....my sister....has it."

"Never. I will never turn to the Dark Side. You failed, your highness. I am a Jedi. Like my father before me."

Anakin, himself, throws destroys Palpatine. NOT...the hero of the OT!

What in the heck would have been the point of telling the PT to begin with if there wasn't a story worth being told?! Of course there are backstory elements (fall of the Jedi, Clone Wars, Imperial rise of power, corruption of Anakin), but without a purpose, they would all come off as a heartless attempt at OT Star Wars filler in a greedy effort to make more money. Oh I get it.....the real story doesn't start until the OT begins with a Rebel Cruiser flying over your head.....

Ironic....isn't it? Bashers use this very argument for Lucas' lack of attention and care for his story and his desire to simply cash it in even now.....

Dr. E......go home and take your preconceived notions of how the PT would best have been played out with you. I'm glad you're content with your original OT without any prequel "bastardization". Guess what? I am content too. But at least I'll be able to sit in a darkened theater and enjoy Lucas' final installment with interest and pleasure. I'm sorry you will not enjoy that luxury.....

 

What in the heck would have been the point of telling the PT to begin with if there wasn't a story worth being told?!

i answered that already.

"the entire PT is about the events leading to the birth of the chosen one, the "new hope". all the stuff about Anakin is just to show how the chosen one makes the right choices in the OT where his father did not...

... how he fulfilled the prophecy where his father did not.

the story of Anakin was to show how easily the dark side can turn good people in contrast with how Luke, as the "chosen one" resisited the dark side and turned the last dark jedi/lord of sith to the light, thus redeeming his father and fulfilling the prophecy."

pretty simple. it is a shame however, that Lucas has done such an unremarkable job of showing the good in Anakin. that Anakin guy is just a jerk.

I'm sorry you will not enjoy that luxury.....

luxury?

 

... how he fulfilled the prophecy where his father did not.

My gosh, man, the prophecy is not a measure of how heroic someone can be! Of course Anakin would not have been able to defeat the Emperor without the assistance and coaxing of his son. Of course Luke was always the perpetual, shining beacon of goodness throughout the OT. The PT is not meant to diminish the work of Luke in any way. In fact, the title to the original movie is "A New Hope". The PT simply lays out the poetry of how someone placed on a pedestal so high, can fall so low, only to then be redeemed by his own offspring to fulfill the mysterious prophecy attached to his name without even being cognizant of it at the time of his action.....It's magical.

Are your feelings really hurt that much by the fact that your childhood hero doesn't have a prophecy behind his name? Holy moley.....

pretty simple. it is a shame however, that Lucas has done such an unremarkable job of showing the good in Anakin. that Anakin guy is just a jerk.

In TPM, we are clearly shown a good soul who went out of his way to aid people he did not know for the betterment of the galaxy.

In AOTC, we see that this individual, despite still having good intentions, is becoming overconfident. He is suffering from the vices of pride, envy, lust, and anger.

In EpIII, we see him lose all of his virtues in favor of becoming more machine than man, twisted and evil.

Perhaps a new hope will be able to pull him out of his rut while aiding to right the wrongs in which he participated.

Some people have seen Lucas' plan all along since 1982, or so, and haven't seen a problem with it yet. Sorry, guy.....It just goes to show that not everyone is a fan of the Star Wars myth anymore......

 

I'd say that Anakin is the protagonist of the saga, so long as you make a distinction between Anakin and Vader being seperate characters.

I'm not sure you can make one person the protagonist of the saga. No one person is the protagonist of all six movies.

 

its Lucas's story, he can do what he wants!

 

Well, according to a post a couple minutes ago from Rick McCallum in a Hyperspace chat, Anakin is the Chosen One.

Just one more official reference to Anakin being the Chosen One.

 

"someone will have to tell me how it turns out in episode III and after the next series of SEs, im sticking with the original OT. i have had my fill of this PT/SE revisionism balogna"

NOW I'm beginning to agree with you again.

"I'm not sure you can make one person the protagonist of the saga. No one person is the protagonist of all six movies."

Agreed. The focus does tend to meander, hence my "Yoda/Palpatine" post.

"Just one more official reference to Anakin being the Chosen One."

I'll add it to my list.

 

Oddly enough, Rick McCallum tonight said during his Hyperspace Webchat that "After all, Anakin IS the Chosen One".
You folks can banter and site your interpretations of the films and obscure, outdated interviews to your hearts' content... Both George and his excecutive producer have said "Anakin is the chosen one...

 

"obscure, outdated interviews to your hearts' content..."

All of which also say that Anakin is the Chosen One.

 

>>>I'm not sure you can make one person the protagonist of the saga. No one person is the protagonist of all six movies.

The whole saga tells a story in six episodes, in which Anakin is the protagonist.

I'm not saying that he's the protagonist in every single, individual episode- I'm saying he's the protagonist in the bigger story of the saga.

 

Both George and his excecutive producer have said "Anakin is the chosen one...

Were you expecting RM to disagree with George? How does that quote change anything that was said.

"Well, if GL said it, he might be wrong, but if RM says it, then we know GL was right" - eeerr, what?


"obscure, outdated interviews to your hearts' content..."

All of which also say that Anakin is the Chosen One.

Sorry, I missed those, could you post them again?

 

Sorry, I missed those, could you post them again?

Not even going to go there as they are liberaly sprinkled throughout this thread...

If you want to percieve Luke to be the 'chosen one', that's all well and good.
It means nothing in the grand scheme of things, but I reiterate that I'll just stick with george and rick... You can cry revisionist history all you want, but in the end it amounts to idle chatter on a message board.

 

"Sorry, I missed those, could you post them again?"

"Not even going to go there as they are liberaly sprinkled throughout this thread..."

Agreed. 5-6 times, if memory serves. Look back a few pages. The information is there, if you want it.

 

Well, there was nothing posted during my time in this thread (which has been most of its existance) that was pre-SE and quoted Lucas as saying who anyone, much less Anakin, was the Chosen One (Correction, early screenplay that had Anakin Starkiller the Chosen One, but the Starkiller character is more of a Luke character, since it was a ANH draft, but in even event, there is no Anakin Starkiller anymore). Did I miss such a quote? That's what I was referring to.


... You can cry revisionist history all you want, but in the end it amounts to idle chatter on a message board.

"Idle chatter"? Tell me, do you really think so lowly of these threads to reduce them with such a label, and if so, why bother posting in this, much less read them? It may be idle, but I don't label it as such because I enjoy it. Do you not, too?


If you want to percieve Luke to be the 'chosen one', that's all well and good.

Actually, I've been arguing that there isn't a Chosen One. I know Lucas says it's Anakin, but he failed to show how anyone was a Chosen One in the story. Too much depends on too many different characters. The story doesn't have a central protaganist or antagonist (though it does have re-occuring protaganist or antagonist). Lucas is forced to go off screen to clarify (even many PT Anakin fans weren't sure if Anakin was suppose to be the Chosen One until he did so). In the end, all Anakin did was lift with his legs, not his back doesn't seem very special to me.

 

Tell me, do you really think so lowly of these threads to reduce them with such a label, and if so, why bother posting in this, much less read them?


Because I do, like many posters here at TFN, enjoy 'idle chatter'... Heck, if you want to pick over such bones, why is the bashers sanctuary such a sucsess? For a movie that has been out so long and that people propose to loath so compleatly, it's one of the busiest threads on TPM board!

Intersting to note again, in the hyperspace set diary the (paraphrased) "Even the chosen one gets wet..." Since I am presuming that there will be no batismal scene for Luke, I can only asume that Pabs is refering to Anakin...

Edited to tone down E-3 spoiler.

 

It's been a while since I've posted in this thread. I found an interesting article that explains Qui-Gon's character.

Now, let me preface this by saying that I approach controversies like this the same way I would a jury trial, how credible is the witness.

I do not consider GL a credible witness because he likes to change his mind on various ideas in his creation, which is his right as the creator.

However, everyone has taken Qui-Gon at face value, as a very good example of what a Jedi Knight should be.

I, however, take into consideration the things mentioned in the article, so I do not consider him a reliable witness, either, to Anakin being the Chosen One.

Qui-Gon is so attuned to the living force, of the here and now, if you will, that I get the strong impression that he misread the signals he was getting. It is entirely possible he was 'seeing' the future, i.e., Luke, and projecting those visions onto Anakin.

Just my humble opinion and interpretation.

Here's the link to the article. quigon

Lady Sami

 

Sami....that's a great article. Thanks for the reference.

You have hit on one of the more subtle intricacies of the saga. Those audiences who would be watching the saga in chronological order would not know for certain whether or not Ani is truly the Chosen One from one episode to the next.

Is the prophecy real or is it just some silly poppycock pushed into the narrative and the audience's consciousness by some reckless Jedi?

It isn't until the climax of ROTJ - five episodes later - when the audience finally understands the truth.

Rather innovative storytelling to say the least......

 

Anakin did bring balance to the force, and here is why I think that. Around the time of TPM, there were not many dark side followers. The jedi, or the light side, are in high numbers. The sith, or the dark side, are thought exstinct. When Vader hunted down the jedi, he missed Ben and Yoda. That makes two jedi, and two sith. Looks to me like the force is balanced.

 

AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

[image=http://members.aol.com/nightdog35/images/bashcomp.gif]

 

MeBe,

Now you know why I use the term 'harmony' rather than 'balance.'

Balance usually means 'equal' in our society, hence the confusion.

Harmony means using the force the way it was meant to be used, for good, not for evil.

Lady Sami

 

Actually, I've been using that term lately also.

 

>>>The jedi, or the light side, are in high numbers...

Jedi are not the Force.
Sith are not the Force.
Midichlorians are not the Force.
Lightsabers are not the Force.
Naboo is not the Force.
Palpatine is not the Force.





Note to self: Be nicer to newbies.

 

Behind the scenes on Episode 2. The opening piece of ANH, included in the last release of the OT on VHS. -

George Lucas :

"then we move into films 4, 5, and 6, where Anakins offspring redeem him, and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the force by doing away with the Sith, and getting rid of evil in the universe."