AOTC Chapter 39: Love Pledge DISCUSSION

There is a lingering air of sadness which pervades this sequence, and continues to haunt the characters and their actions throughout the final passages of the film. Yes, this scene is "over-the-top" in terms of its declarative language, but it is done so in a gentle and quietly passionate manner which lends a subtle delicacy to the story. We are reminded a little of Douglas Sirk and his rich, saturated melodramas in which grandiose, saccharine emoting was used to transform soapiness into art. I think that, in a more subdued way, Lucas achieves a similar elegiac and transformative tone. The key to this, apart from John Williams' score, is Natalie Portman. The public scorn for Portman in this film is surpassed perhaps only by the general dislike of Hayden Christensen, but Natalie helps to sell this sequence in a manner that helps us understand and accept Padme's declaration of love. This is the cumulative point in her character arc - all that she has been fighting to dismiss throughout the duration of the picture is once again brought to prominence - when faced with impending death, she becomes acquiescent to the articulate nature of her feelings, rather than remaining trapped beneath the guise of her more stately and formal appearance. This notion is extremely romantic in its grandness and eloquence; for some, it will seem to be too forced and clunky in its nearly overbearing sentimentality, but I, however, confess to having a weakness for such things. The pathos and yearning contained within Portman's countenance communicate not only her affection for Anakin, but her deep sense of conflict. We sense that she is doing something that is in opposition to her more pragmatic nature, and yet we can see why she does it.

Hayden is adequate in this piece of the film, although his character has been pouting, and is employed primarily as a foil to Padme in this sequence - we already know how Anakin feels, we simply need him to act as witness to Padme's revelation. This is a key scene in terms of character exposition, because it lays out the basic foundation in which Anakin's distraction in the Geonosis Hangar becomes more psychologically plausible when considered not as an incidental set piece, but in its filmic entirety as it shares a connection to other events.

The camera work here is very nice, visually communicating not only the size of the arena as our heroes are escorted to their fate, but the scope of the concurrent emotional plane being exploited within the film. I quite admired the (literally) sweeping nature of this aesthetic, although I can understand why some might be turned off, especially those with more ironic sensibilities. Ewan McGregor is effective briefly at the end of this chapter as he looks disapprovingly at Anakin, almost as if to say: "What do you think you're doing?" Based on some of the spoilers for "Episode 3".....alas, I cannot go there.

A lovely chapter indeed.

 

"Anakin thought they decided to not fall in love or be forced to live a lie since it would destroy both of their lives. Padme says that they'll be destroyed now. She truly, deeply loves him."

So Padme didn't want to pursue the relationship because it would destroy their lives. However, she decided it would be save to admit she loves him because they were about to die anyway.

But then, they didn't die.

It seemed to be a situation of "well I can't go back on that now." But I also think she may have been overcome with emotion and the sense of her mortality enough for the feelings to last, so that would be another reason she continued to act on her feelings. I don't believe she truly loved him, but I do think she truly believed she did. I don't think she understood him very well, nor take his weak points into consideration enough.

 

The acting and dialog are pretty , and
yes I think Padme's love declaration is a bolt from
the blue. On a positive note, 'Across the Stars' sounds
great! Another missed opportunity for some real
emotion. Oh, Lawrence Kasdan, where for art thou?

'Course that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.'

 

Oh, Lawrence Kasdan, where for art thou?

I fail to understand why so many people seem to think that the likes of Kasdan and Irvin Kershner hold the key to "redeeming" the "Star Wars" franchise. The last time I checked, Kasdan was writing and directing amorphous junk like "Dreamcatcher". What makes you think that his abilities haven't deep-sixed (I don't, personally, but I'm posing the question simply for argument's sake)? Many, not you Juke-Skywalker, would try to suggest that the prequels would be so much better had someone such as Kershner directed them, conveniently overlooking the fact that despite his obvious talent, and the fact that he has made good films such as "The Empire Strikes Back", "Loving", "Never Say Never Again", and "Up the Sandbox", this is also the same man who made "Robocop 2" and "S*P*Y*S". The "peerless" Kersh is as capable of making a bad film as anyone else.

 

I fail to understand why so many people seem to think that the likes of Kasdan and Irvin Kershner hold the key to "redeeming" the "Star Wars" franchise. The last time I checked, Kasdan was writing and directing amorphous junk like "Dreamcatcher". What makes you think that his abilities haven't deep-sixed (I don't, personally, but I'm posing the question simply for argument's sake)? Many, not you Juke-Skywalker, would try to suggest that the prequels would be so much better had someone such as Kershner directed them, conveniently overlooking the fact that despite his obvious talent, and the fact that he has made good films such as "The Empire Strikes Back", "Loving", "Never Say Never Again", and "Up the Sandbox", this is also the same man who made "Robocop 2" and "S*P*Y*S". The "peerless" Kersh is as capable of making a bad film as anyone else.

Amen. In the same way that Peter Jackson's talent benefited immensely from being associated with a previously established property (the literary success of Tolkien), Kershner and Kasdan were propelled to superstardom by working on the sequel to the most successful film in history at that time. This is not to denigrate their fine talents, but neither has had that kind of success since.

I love the LOVE PLEDGE...a personal, intimate moment in shadows that literally rolls into an epic feel in the arena, William's music is great, the setting is great, and I think it's Natalie's truest, most believeable moment in the film.

-----

 

Swordswoman,
You make a good point, can Padme be in love when she knows so little about Anakin? At the same time, if she cared for him after he told her how he massacred the sand people, if she still saw something in him worthy of her care after learning of his darkness, isn't that love?

 

Tyranus_the_Hutt, great points all. In fact, you
reminded me of something I failed to mention in
my earlier post that may clarify my point a bit
better.

My point about Kasdan (And Kershner for that matter)
is that their involvement represented the last real
collaborative effort GL ever really had making a
Star Wars film. After his experience with 'Empire',
Lucas chose the a director with a less independent
spirit for 'Jedi'. And while Kasdan again worked on
the screenplay, this time it was 'Story by GL,
Screenplay by LK and GL'. I can't help but
think Kasdan was more than a little apprehensive
about the Ewoks. Their scenes have GL written all
over them.

My opinion is that ESB is so great because it
represented a real colloberation of strengths.
Kershner's attention to the emotional details and
ability to work with actors. Kasdan's way with
dialog and of course GL's imagination. I think that's
missing from the PT, IMHO.

 

The Love Pledge was beautifully acted and scored. One of the most powerful love scenes because we sense their doom, but at the same I was happy for them at the moment. Natalie was perfect during that scene.

 

i liked it,but the scean after this was better

 

Not as cheesy as the fire place scene, so it's good. It's a touching moment, one of the few left remaining in the PT.

 

Thank you for all your participation in CBC (Chapter by Chapter). AOTC Chapter 40: The Arena DISCUSSION will be made available 12:00 AM EST. Although the discussion timeframe has passed, you may still discuss this chapter at your convienience. However, we will be moving on to the next chapter.

-Moleman1138

 

Tyranus_the_Hutt:

I think the fact that Kershner directed ESB is why some people wish he directed the prequels. If he made one good Star Wars film, then hopefully he could do another. Possibly better than Lucas did, at any rate.

Of course, possibly not. But some people would rather pick him, I guess, since with Star Wars he did a good job. Of course no one is above making mistakes, but some people just have more faith in him.

If anyone said he is perfect or "peerless" though, then I can understand your problem.

counselormorris:

At the same time, if she cared for him after he told her how he massacred the sand people, if she still saw something in him worthy of her care after learning of his darkness, isn't that love?

It's a good question. I had to sit and think. My answer is, not necessarily; it depends. She still saw good in him, it's true, and it would certainly be necessary for her to, in order to love him. But what bars her from really loving him, I think, is that she sees the good in him at the expense of seeing his faults. I think that may have been what I was trying to get at. She should be much more concerned about his faults than she was; if she faced these and tried to actively help him with it, rather than merely thinking he's "only human," is actually harmful and does not show caring. It does not surprise me that he never gets over the Sand People problem and becomes a worse person. Tragic.

 

SwordsWoman,
Carl Rogers looked at the progress of his clients in therapy (and the clients of other therapists) about fifty years ago and found they tended to get better if the therapist was genuine, emapthetic, and believed in their potentials (altogether he found them to be necessary and sufficient for change). He didn't see these characteristics as beneficial just for therapists. He saw these as the qualities he could embody to become more of a person (his book was called On Becoming a Person), to help everyone in his life become more human, and get rid of all the garbage that gets in the way. I think I hear your distinction as being that Padme believed in Anakin's potentials, she felt unconditional positive regard for him, but she wasn't genuine with him about feeling that it was an awful thing to massacre the sand people, and without that she wasn't helping him to grow. That's a good point.

 

I'll have to think on that one, too. I think that Padme's empathy was a good thing and potentially good for Anakin, but it couldn't truly help him in the long run because it came at the expense of other things, the things you mentioned. She told him he was only human and such, but didn't tell him other important things about himself that he needed to face and work on before he makes the same mistake again.

 

a personal, intimate moment in shadows that literally rolls into an epic feel in the arena, William's music is great, the setting is great, and I think it's Natalie's truest, most believeable moment in the film.

Those were the words I was looking for. Well said JWD.

I personally think the lovestory between Anakin and Padme's works in some scenes, but not in all scenes. I never had a problem however, with Padme still loving Anakin after the Tusken massacre.
What many people seemed to forget is that Anakin showed regret. I am sure Padme wasn't completely down with what he did, but she loved him, and knew he was falling apart, and needed to comfort him.

 

Padme telling Anakin that she loves him is one of the best moments in the film, for me personally. I do feel it is where Natalie shines the most. I know some have said that this is an out of the blue deal for Padme but I guess from personal experience, it's more to it than that. Think about the roles that they have taken in their lives and they both struggle with the fact they know that falling in love would sprout up many consequences (and honestly, a romance isn't a romance without conflict in fiction and this is fiction). Yes, I do feel Padme expresses her love because she is unsure about making it out alive but then I don't think it's that entirely because she takes the measure to help her odds, i.e. the wire. I think it's a mixture of both. Plus, I think it's a case where she hasn't allowed herself to love, to really entertain the thought. Not only that, I have a feeling this scene will resonate with all of us when we see ROTS because we all know this revelation paves the way for what we know as the OT.

 

I'm not one of the people who forgot that Anakin showed regret about the massacre. That he shows regret does show that he has not completely fallen to the dark side. But it doesn't do much more than that. He still wants power; he says as much right there. He wants to have incredible, impossible power, and he's going to continue to go after it. Also, his regret doesn't quite excuse his actions or prevent him from doing such a thing, or worse things, again. I don't think Amidala would excuse the Neimoidians either even if they showed regret, but that's my own speculation. I think she should know that she should be careful even if he shows regret. That showing regret is only the first step to healing from his difficulty. He also has to show that he will not do such a thing again, that he has learned from this mistake, that he can feel anger without giving in to it. He's eventually going to do the opposite instead. We see, for one, that he didn't learn from his mistake, when he attacked Dooku suddenly, without thinking, only feeling. And of course he eventually becomes Vader at some point. Amidala was all sympathy and comfort but not many other things that Anakin needed.

 

I think this scene sums up Padmes character. Willing to hold back until the last moment thinking of her obligations to others before herself. And the acting was truly genuine...

...A bit too true. What if it wasn't acting!!!! HAHAHA