AOTC: was it hurt by a waning SW fanbase?

"The prequels suck because Lucas is deeply involved in them instead of farming them out to people with talent. He's too egotistical to let anyone else work on the movies."

"The prequels suck because Lucas is an absentee director who wanders around the set with a dumb look on his face, letting everyone else do all the hard work."

"Lucas got well paid, for his work, so he gets no thanks from me. And it wasn't his work anyway. Gary Kurtz and Marcia Lucas did all the work."

"The prequels suck because Lucas doesn't give the fans what they want."

"The prequels suck because Lucas has sold out and is pandering to fans."

ROTFL!!

 

"if you say so."

I do say so. You are arguing that since you enjoyed AOTC, that since I don't think it is well made that for some reason I suddenly hate the OT, which was made 20 years ago and has nothing to do with AOTC. Why would I hate the OT because of AOTC? If anything I appreciate it so much more now having seen AOTC. I realize jsut how sharp the dialogue is, how stelar the fx, the depth of the character portrayll, the economically perfect and exhillerating script, the magical way the force the story is slowly revealed, the mysterious story of Anakin which is revealed slowly over the 3 films, the menacing villans and the enduring heros. I like how the sfx support the story and not the other way around, Plus it has a rich tapestry of good and evil, plus all the grey regions inbetween.

AOTC was more just a black and white, boy gets the girl, bang bang boom boom kinda movie. Some fun elements, but I'd rank it somewhere above armageddon but below independence day.

But its a matter of prefernce, nobody is right or wrong, I like my fantasy films to be more adventure oriented then action oriented, and I like my genre pictures to have some substance, and not to be jsut balck and white.

Thats not a critism, a lot of people like black and white conflict,a nd pure escapist stuff, and AOTC succeeds at that I will concede.

I'm kind of biast anyways, because I make movies, so thing slike poor editting jump out at me and are hard to ignore, or the aniamted stormtroopers, but I know that 99% of people don't notice that stuff and it doens't take away the fun factor for them, so I won't hold that against the movie.

 

Ironic that some people bashing AOTC for sloppy filmmaking can't even be bothered to correct spelling and grammar mistakes in their own posts.

 

Poor rebuttal, flagg - you're comparing apples and oranges. The three minutes it took him to write that post are hardly comparable to the three years necessary to turn out the film. Inaccuracies, typos, etc. are forgiveable in a quick post; they are less forgiveable in a collective effort, championed by a king of micromanagement.

Plus it's an ad hominem attack, rather than a rebuttal of the substance of his post.

 

what he said.

 

AOTC was more just a black and white,

Not true. The good and bad guys in AOTC are not clear cut, hence they are not "black and white". The Republic is good, BUT it's an institution that is obviously failing everyone. The Seperatists have succeeded from the Republic for seemingly ideological reasons, BUT have they really? Anakin Skywalker is one of the main characters, and he's one of the heros, BUT he's taken his first steps towards the darkside. Senator Palpatine seems to be a good guy who is somewhat mentoring Anakin, BUT we all know he's not good. There's others but I think my point has been made.

So I don't see how you can say AOTC is just another "black and white" movie, unless I've misunderstood your meaning.

 

I dunno, I see what your saying, but to me its till pretty clear who is bad who is good, Anakin is sort of back and forth. In the OT I find the characters to be a lot more in the middle, Leia and R2 are the only people who are purely good,a nd palpatine is the only purely evil. I thinkt he plots are less complicated but the story is deeper and more indepth, just my perspective.

 

"AOTC was more just a black and white . . ."

With all due respect for your opinion, I have to completely disagree with you there. Who is good and who is bad in AOTC is totaly unsure and undefined - it has the most GREY AREAS of all the Star Wars films.

I expect a PPOR, so:

Anakin - Good, bad, or both?
Palpatine - Good, bad, or both?
Republic - Good, bad, or both
Confederacy - Good, bad, or both?
Count Dooku - Good, bad or both?

List goes on and on.

In the OT, who was good and who was bad was MUCH more clearly defined in my opinion. Darth Vader was the only character that way grey.

 

what about luke, and han?

 

luke was good

han was good/with a bad attitude

 

OK, I don't know how you got Luke as being grey, because, except for in a few moments in ROTJ & TESB, he's clearly defined as a hero. I disagree with Han being grey too, but I'll go ahead and let you have those two anyway.

In the OT, we know FOR SURE that:

BAD = Empire, Stormtroopers, Emperor, Jabba the Hutt, Boba Fett.....

GOOD = The Rebellion, Leia, R2-D2, C-3PO, Obi-Wan.....

GREY = Vader, Luke, Han, Lando

~~~~~~
In the PT:

GOOD = Yoda, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Padme

BAD = Darth Maul

GREY = The Republic, The Confederacy, Count Dooku, Palpatine, The Jedi Organization, Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker,

/////

To me, nomatter which way you look at it, the PTs got way more grey areas. I'll also have you know that I consider Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon grey in the OT (because they are portrayed in two different lights in different parts of the movie, but I excluded them).

 

"The prequels suck because Lucas has sold out and is pandering to fans."

Whomever came up with this little gem has to be the worst example of a basher I've ever seen.

Wouldn't selling out indicate that what is being done isn't for the fans but for the money?

Wouldn't pandring to the fans be exactly what thefans want? Why would the fans want Lucas to pander to anyone but them?

Shelley, please let us know who is the author of this one so I can PM them with hours of laughter.

 

Here's a list of the lameness he has worked on:

Terminator 2, Death Becomes Her, Forrest Gump, Jumanji, Ghost, Back to the Future II, The Mask, and The Doors. He won an Academy Award and a British Academy Award for Death Becomes Her and a second British Academy Award for Forrest Gump.


The only films Doug Chiang has designed for are Star Wars Episodes I and II. His credits for all other films are for art director of visual effects, not for design. This is all made quite clear if you look at Doug Chiang's credits at the imdb. For more evidence, you can look at his professional portfolio at his official website.

In all fairness, I believe that yodaschum was talking about how Chiang's designs are lame, and not the man himself. I liked The Mask and T2 well enough. Chiang's visual effects are pretty cool, but his designs? That's something else.

 

I'm sure that you have evidence to back that up.Right Tokyo?You know what?I think you are GL's alter ego!That's how you know this right!?Please let me interview you.I have so many questions!

I don't know why I'd need evidence to back up my opinion that GL has a waning interest in the SW films. You pretty much just have to assume that I really do believe that. Or not. Ha ha ha!!!

Art criticism is much more diverse than simple questions of taste. If anyone's curious to learn more about the subject, feel free to visit your local library or Roger Ebert's website. He gives high ratings to films that well-made, even if they aren't in his taste.

 

All arguments aside, the overriding reason why I, in particular, am partial to the OT is because I simply care more about Luke, Han, Leia, and (most importantly) Chewie than I do about Anakin, Padme, and Qui-Gon.

I wanted so desperately to care about these characters. I don't, though. Why is another argument.

 

How does one PM someone with hours of laughter? Is it difficult?

 

How does one PM someone with hours of laughter? Is it difficult?

Maybe he wants to tell him/her jokes for hours

 

"All arguments aside, the overriding reason why I, in particular, am partial to the OT is because I simply care more about Luke, Han, Leia, and (most importantly) Chewie than I do about Anakin, Padme, and Qui-Gon.

I wanted so desperately to care about these characters. I don't, though. Why is another argument."

My thoughts exactly. Which is a more likely reason to not like AOTC:

1)the above quote

or

2)But for some reason people don't believe that and instead think its a combination of the media brainwashing us, and paying good money to go to AOTC intent on not liking it at all cost.

 

Art criticism is much more diverse than simple questions of taste. If anyone's curious to learn more about the subject, feel free to visit your local library or Roger Ebert's website.

I agree, with the exception of Roger Ebert's website. Food Criticism maybe. B grade skin flicks maybe. Art Criticism and Roger Ebert are mutually exclusive. Calling Roger Ebert an fine art critic is like calling a lawyer trustworthy.

 

well he does have a pulizter prize

 

I'm surprised this thread is still open

The fanbase is certainly more fickle than it was in 1980 or 1983, but that's true for any part of pop culture. All I really see from the Lucas and AOTC critics are differences of opinions. Based on what I've seen with my own eyes (Indianapolis Celebration, crowds for AOTC all throughout the summer) the SW fanbase is just fine.

 

All arguments aside, the overriding reason why I, in particular, am partial to the OT is because I simply care more about Luke, Han, Leia, and (most importantly) Chewie than I do about Anakin, Padme, and Qui-Gon.

Is this a product of having watched the originals countless times over the years? Frankly, I don't get your argument because Qui-Gon Jinn is one of my favorite characters in the saga. The first time I saw him get killed it felt like a punch in the gut because I did care about the character and his relationship with little Ani. In fact, that's my least favorite part of The Phantom Menace because I hate seeing such a great character get killed by that punk Maul Darth! And I must admit that I really do feel a connection with Obi-Wan's and Anakin's strained relationship and by extension the characters themselves. But this is partially intentional because I chose to invest myself in the characters rather than aloofly sitting back saying, "Gee, I wish I could see Luke and Han."

 

I'll take one grin from Han to Chewie (or Luke, for that matter)--that one grin that says "we know what each other is going to say before the other says it," than a thousand of each of the following:

"Your focus determines your reality"

Really? you don't say. Thank you sir.

...[the sandstorm]"...Looks pretty bad..."

Doesn't look that bad to me.

"The death toll is catastrophic..."

See above.

and

"I'd much rather dream about Padme. Just being around her again is intoxicating."

Well, we're all glad you feel that way. Problem is, I don't share that sentiment. Padme can punch her own ticket at this point. She no doubt has a pension at the ripe old age of 24; and you--well, you play your cards right and you're destined to go on to bigger and better things. It's yours to lose.

 

But this is partially intentional because I chose to invest myself in the characters rather than aloofly sitting back saying, "Gee, I wish I could see Luke and Han."

This is a legitimate question for some, but you'll have to trust me when I say that it isn't for me. When I first saw A New Hope I had never seen Luke, Han, Chewie, et. al. From that first viewing until now, I have loved those characters--and I always will. That same love caused me to stand in line for The Phantom Menace and again for Attack of the Clones, hoping to be introduced to such instantly loveable characters (or at least to have them grow on me some.)

I guess when you're looking for something to happen, damned if you're bound to be disappointed. I just don't have any sort of feeling for the plight of Anakin, Obi-wan, Padme, or any of the lot. The heart just loves what it loves, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.

 

Why wouldn't you care for McGreggors portrayal of Obi Wan? He's charming, out to do good for others and is self sacrificing. What else do you could you want from a hero. Sure he's short with Anakin but Anakin deserves it and you can tell he wants to do what is best for his student.

Someone please give me an honest answer as to why they don't care for Obi Wan and how this could've been done so they would care about the character.