Are stormtroopers clone or not? State your position...

Like many others, I think that stomtroopers are a mix of clones and "normal" humans, or entirely "normal." I think that the Empire would have moved on from Jango clones, though, and I don't think that many of them were made anymore. There's no way Kamino could have supplied a galactic totatalitarian government with enough troops to police it.(in fact, I think that there are way too little clones in the Clone Wars to fight a galactic conflict, but that's another topic) Like the Third Reich, there probably would be a lot of enthusiastic, "normal" humans ready to serve their emperor.

Also, if the stormtroopers are clones, why the **** aren't the officers clones? It's not like the clone officers were incompetent.

 

Lucas also said that Yoda was the love child of Kermit and Miss Piggy...

Do people actually take that seriously?

You mean...it's not true?!

 

Well, Yoda's affairs with Muppets aside, I don't believe that anything more than a small percentage of stormtroopers are clones by the time of ANH. We've read about many characters who join up some branch of the military, Han, Biggs, Davin Felth, Tycho. Admitedly, all but Davin went into the fleet, rather than becoming footsoldiers, but I find it hard to believe that people only wanted to join the imp navy. I believe that in many cases, enlistment goes up during times of conflict, certainly there were planets in the republic with their own standing armies, and at least some of them must have joined the army as footsoldiers.

 

i liked sam the eagle

 

The reason was why the officers weren't all clones was perhaps because Palps wanted to keep the upper class families happy by supplying their sons with jobs.

 

Or the reason that stormtroopers were mostly regular people is because it was a lot cheaper.

 

It's very simple. Some are clones, and some are not.

 

I think we need to wait until Episode III as I assume there will be added info we will need to consider. My current guess would be that cloning in the Empire ends at some point soon after the wars, thus with about a 20 year gap until ANH and accelerated growth, most clones would need to be retired or dead by ANH.

 

i just cant see the clones in the ANH era being clones

 

Some of them are, some of them aren't. I can't see why that is so difficult to understand.

 

I think that Bib just gave the most concise answer yet, and I agree...

 

I just want to know where they were cloning the clones (Byss?)

 

Some of them are, some of them aren't. I can't see why that is so difficult to understand.

Exactly what I've been trying to say. Oh well.

 

I second that... or third it. Whatever.

 

Lucas also said that Yoda was the love child of Kermit and Miss Piggy...

Do people actually take that seriously?

Yeah but that was said in a different context and it was meant to be a joke.

Lucas's comment about the link between Jango & the Stormtroopers was in a different context where he is actually talking about how AOTC connects with the OT. Besides he's the storyteller and only he knows who or what the Stormtroopers are.

 

"Yeah but that was said in a different context and it was meant to be a joke"

So was Lucas comment about bumping his head. He pointed out that it was a joke when he laughed about and said it be "funny" at least twice.

"You know, throughout, as we go through the movie, there's all funny little moments. Like Jango bumping his head. Because in Star Wars, one of the stormtroopers bumps his head on the door as they leave the control room on the Death Star. And I thought, wouldn't it be funny if, you know, if that's trait that Jango has, is he, when he puts his helmet on and everything, he can't really see that well, and so he's constantly bumping his head. And that trait gets cloned into all the stormtroopers. And that's why they keep bumping their heads and... *laughs*"

-George Lucas, AOTC Audio Commentary

But unless someone is an actual moron, they can easily tell he's telling a joke after reading the actual quote, as he talks about it being "funny"(funny means a joke people) at least twice and laughs(laughing means he was telling a joke people) about it, and unless people are complete morons they know that in real science bumping one's head is not something that can be passed onto a clone (considering its due to blindness caused by the helmet, and not the actual person wearing the helmet), a helmet is not something that can be cloned, its a manmade physical object that someone puts on.

Lucas said both his love child quote, and his bumping head joke, in the same way, laughing at his own punchlines.

Since it was meant to be a joke, as Lucas admits with own comments, on "funny" and his "laugh" if people take it seriously, they are sorely lacking a sense of humor (I'd say that isn't very healthy)...

Do you know another easter egg joke was put into Coruscant involving a tiefighter chasing an x-wing? Taking that seriously is not very healthy either, as it was meant as a joke, not something to be taken seriously.

What about the old shoe at Endor, or the Potato in the Asteroid Field? People who take those seriously, have absolutely no sense of humor, that's not very healthy.

 

We have too much EU evidence to suggest that they are not all clones. While some of the stormies might in fact be leftovber clones, or specially grown ones (ala Thrawn takking the best and the brightest), like Ousley said it's just much more cost effective to have several months of training for a living being rather than waiting ten years, or even the one year minimum the Spaarti cloning cylinders have. Therefore, I side with Bib, some are clones, some are not. Who's who? Shoot 'em and take off the helmets to find out.

 

Genghis12:

Yeah, I'd say that would most likely be the case with the 40%.

I believe that in Pax Emperica, Strander observes the "old generation" of genetic clones, saying they're strong, dumb, and dedicated. I believe he remarks they are dark complected. These would be the residual Republican clonetroopers, and any clone lines produced from those original clonetroopers. There's no evidence to suggest that the 2 x life cycle must persist once maturity is achieved. Indeed: if they can manipulate the clones as much as they do, I'd be suprised if they can't only speed up those phases of life they choose.

The 40% of Stormtroopers are Strander-brand clones (GeNode-type). There are the left over Kaminoan clonetroopers and the remaining products of the early Kaminoan-type Stormtrooper cloning (see: Bantha Tracks article from the '70's). Then you have other clones: the scout troopers had at least a single line, if not more, as Strander talks about how scouts are designed with lighter builds and such. Likewise with some of the other unique clones. There was at least one other line of GeNode Stormtroopers beyond Strander. Then there is probably a Force-sensitive line of GeNodes, which make up the Dark Troopers, Royal Guardsmen, and Soveriegn Protectors.

The rest is made up by exceptional volunteers.

The Stormtroopers are a varied group of specialized clone lines (with variation in each unit) comprising the majority of the Marines. A healthy (but probably minority) percentage does remain recruits from the Army or Navy).

The movies are silent on this issue except that it is not likely that there is a single line of clones.
[image=http://www.stardestroyer.net/BoardPics/Stormtroopers.jpg]

Note: Kir Kanos and Carnor Jax look almost exactly alike. The Strander clones and whatnot are not Force-sensitive. The standard lines lack that talent. Therefore, one must consider only the exception recruits might be recruited into the Royal Guard--as RPG Sourcebooks indicate they all have Force talents. However, given Kanos' and Jax's similarity and the fact that Palpatine would more aptly trust perfectly designed troops for his protection.

 

Right, and we do know that Carnor Jax was Force sensitive. He was made a Dark Lord of the Sith by Lumiya.

 

My Essay on Cloning and the Imperial Stormtroopers...

The Stormtroopers originate with the Grand Army of the Republic. The Grand Army, was initially composed of 200,000 combat troops developed at the Kaminoan capital of Tipoca City. The Kaminoan clone forces were nationalised into the Grand Army as part of the provisions of the Military Creation Act, authorized by Supreme Chancellor Palpatine after granting of emergency powers by the Galactic Senate.

192,000 of those combat-ready infantry were deployed in combat against the nascent Confederacy of Independent Systems at the factory world of Geonosis. Shortly thereafter, another 1,000,000 clones were readied for battle and were quickly deployed in fire brigade/spec-ops style against several Confederate threats. Presumably, the other many millions of clones in production at Kamino became ready at varying times within the next three years of war.

Meanwhile, Republican engineers, scientists, and technicians, working from the base of the Kaminoan cloning vats, developed a new clone vat capable of growing a clone from zygote to full adult. It is also probable that the Republican designers also created the "flash-memory imprinting" system that custom-wired the growing brain to contain a given set of memories and skills. The Spaarti Creations company and the Cranscoc Twillers developed the Clone Cylinders which were buried under the mostly empty world of Wayland.

It is possible that this technology was leaked to the Seperatists, and some Confederate ships were crewed by clones that were grown too rapidly. These clones went insane. These frenzied and mad encounters with the Republican Navy would leave an impression on later-Imperial Remnant Grand Admiral Pelleaon before the clones were put down. Continued use may have eventually created stable crewers if grown for at least a year.

Presumably, when the war ended and the Galactic Empire was founded, the Grand Army was encorperated into the Imperial Marines, or the Stormtroopers, despite the fact that the Galactic Empire officially banned all full-body sentient cloning (ref: DESB). However, hidden enclaves, possibly in the Deep Core, were constructed for the continued production of cloned soldiers. *Initially, these facilities produced clones similarly to Kamino, where infant or toddler clones were raised at normal or accerated growth rate to young adulthood. This chronologically, logistically, and financially costly process became cost-prohibitive.

Using a refined varient of the Spaarti-brand cloning cylinder technology buried at Wayland, Emperor Palpatine established cloning facilities on Byss and Coruscant, for the production of clone bodies for his quest to immortality.

It is possible the "GeNode" facilities were derived from the Spaarti-brand cylinder technology as well. Regardless, the GeNode facilities produced adult clones which were fully matured and ready for deployment immediately upon leaving the vat. Clones were specialized for squad roles--lighter, slighter-build clones became biker scouts, for example. The clones were designed such that they invented personalities and memories once they "hatched." Each GeNode believed he was a recruit, with a life and past and family. Slight randomity in the clones' intrinsic appearance and hygenic/cosmetic habits, as well as the shuffling of multiple clone lines maintained the appearance of a more normal army. GeNodes are brainwashed, either physically or psychologically, to be nigh-incapable of betraying or deserting the Empire, or realizing that they are clones, even though, amazingly, they'll notice other GeNodes, even GeNodes of their line, are clones. They're programmed to be "too polite" to discuss cloning with GeNodes of their line.

However, the Marines always kept an eye out for exceptional volunteers from the Navy and Army to be trained at Carida and placed in the Marines. Even a few political prisioners as punishment were brainwashed and placed in a useless role such as garrison on Carida or some desolate customs checkpoint in Wild Spac

 

Certain folks have been theorizing that Kir Kanos and Carnor Jax were clones of Kyle Katarn.

What happened to the those cloning facilities in the Deep Core (It didn't seem liked the warlords destroyed all the facilities, where else would they get their soldiers?)

Why didn't Thrawn use Ge-node clones (or Pellaeon try to retrieve a cloning facility?)

 

Okay, so during the clone wars, clones begin training at Carida. The Jabiim rebels regard clones with fear, and it seems that not a lot of the public had ever seen a clone without a helmet. In the Krytos trap, Corran Horn uncovers two stormtroopers in the Lusankya. He notices that they aren't 'true' stormtroopers because they look different to each other. He thinks that while he hasn't seen a helmetless stormtrooper, he would think they looked somehow distinctive. In rogue Squadron, an Imperial admiral notes that stormtroopers were a renewable source, and Kirtan Loor thinks of the stormtroopers as not being human, and there was probably a construction line that produced them. This suggests that the Empire was still producing clones as late as the X-wing books

 

No, for many reasons.

 

I think my earlier post regarding Palaptine switching to recruited troops for his soldiers because he doesn't want to be reliant on the Kaminoans for any longer than necessary is legitimate. Palpatine HATES aliens...

 

At some point, the Empire stopped using cloning and only recruited folks for its stormtrooper ranks. But there were still a lot of clones leftover who hadn't died in action yet.