Lit Armies and Navies of the Galaxy

Also depends on what you want to call significant, even a single Dreadnaught or line of IPVs can mess with anyone’s day and even under the Empire we have places like the Tapani sector, in which allied governments get permitted to have as much as 12 Tapani Class ships, Dreadnaughts and/or refitted VicStars, though said to be a rare exception.
The thing just is that the Republic would not let them form insanely sized fleets before the Clone Wars (with even the few experimental trophy craft they where patching together getting harsh restriction pushed on them) and during the Clone Wars stuff was already getting centralized into what would become the Imperial fleet and even with what the Empire “inherited” they still had to go on an insane building spree and yet were still short handed more often than not.
PS: Potential Unknown Threats! Is not going to convince any budget committee to give you funding

They properly got along significantly better, after all they have been cooperation for countless millennia, not just for about a century.

And yet they are still winning (again for that matter, just ask the last world power with nucler weapons that tried a war in that region)

As had been pointed out in other threads the restrictions that keep showing up in shipbuilding, ship maintenance and ship design point at a very different picture. Sure it might be “unrealistic” that only a handful planets actually provide the materials to build hyper drives, or that only so many have Tibanna gas to mine etc. Thing just is, you are going to need fancy impossible materials to build fancy impossible technology. Also necessary defenses will not to have to amount to more than a few custom boats or hastily armed freighters for many worlds.

 

Potential Unknown Threats

Sure seemed to work well with blowing up our own military budget vs. guys building bombs out of cold war leftovers in basements...just saying.

Plus you're assuming that the Imperial Senate was anything but a rubber stamp for Palpatine. Given that it ended up requiring a civil war to fix things I'm going with it not being much for controlling the Senate.

 

They gave name tags to those and had a giant media propaganda campaign. So not really “Unknown”.

The Senate pretty much having become a rubber stamp is one of the reasons the Rebels actually arose.

 

I know-that's the point I'm making; the Senate wouldn't have been much of a blockade to ridiculous military spending levels. As for "unknown threats"-it's been quite awhile that it's been a thing that the Empire constantly tried to equate the Rebellion with the Seps, and always played up the Sep spectre whenever they had an opportunity. Not quite unknown, but definitely not very true, either.

 

Those that protested would likely have been silenced very quickly, though it certainly would be useful for the forming Rebel movement to know where the Empires military budget was going in detail (Bail Organa was on the relevant committee after all)

WEG also always had them say they where battling pirates to justify the funding (the first Rebels also pretty much being pirates certainly didn’t harm the claim), though it would not be a thing that the Core Worlds could argue in the days of the Republic as piracy was basically none existent in the Core.

 

Well, we seem to be agreeing, so..

5 QUADRILLION!!111ONE!!

 

Well I wouldn't call 17 major conflicts between Coruscant, Alsakan and Corellia, the Pius Dea Crusades, and who knows how many more wars between individual systems over 25,000 years of Republic history is "getting along".

Wouldn't think individual governments and militaries would exist if every one got along so well either. Plus at the founding of the Republic I wouldn't think all of these individual planets would let themselves be artificially limited in terms of military power and completely kowtow to a central authority on Coruscant, at the worst they would be equals in order to have some sort of balance. I am very much in the camp of the Republic is much more like the UN/EU and not a government. I also identify with the SW verse much more than Trek because I feel that the civilization portrayed is more "human", and with that I think conflict would occur on a regular basis.

I am not looking for any adherents nor calling anyone a heretic, and I completely understand most SW numbers that are given go against my points, but no matter what explanation is given for presenting a more minimalistic universe I just will never buy it. I don't think a galactic civilization could exist, that Death Stars and superlasers would be possible, that ships that could get across the galaxy in a matter of hours, there be millions and millions of settled worlds, there be 100,000+ year old city planets among other things if all those explanations and restrictions were true. In my mind its like watching a show set in present day New York City, but on the show they say its population is a 100 people, its police force uses spears and slingshots, and there's no electricity.

However, with that said, I am grateful for my imagination so that I can picture things on more of a grander scale , and the fact that there are enough people out there who care about stuff like this makes me feel a little less crazy

 

Compared to Star Trek which has had at least 7 major wars in some 100 years? Yeah, they are getting along just fine in the Republic.

Of course they would, as the Republic is to big to not have local administration and goes for kind of democratic representation, plus PSF main mission is public security, they are space cops first and foremost.

Not talking about initially, but in the last 1000 years of the Republic they were very clearly restricted militarily, which also happens to be the time out of which the Empire grows and of course they would be equals, but still have to obey Senate consensus, which at the time was very keen on military restriction.

It is very much like the EU in which when the majority of members agree all of them are bound to it, whilst also having acquired a rather impressive collection of political power from its members in areas in which they have decided to give up sovereignty to the EU.

They look to have regular large conflicts more frequently in Star Trek actually; of course they will have disputes in the SW galaxy but that’s precisely what the Republic and the Empire where there to solve.

 

This is less unrealistic than it seems. The comparable aspect is with the availability of so-called 'rare earth' elements on Earth today. While these elements are actually widespread and in some sense abundant, they aren't in terms of the economic requirements necessary to extract them. There are onyl a few places where these elements are concentrated enough that one can extract them in such a fashion that doing so doesn't mean undertaking a massive loss, and yet these are elements essential to pretty much all modern advanced technologies.

The same thing holds true in Star Wars - a small number of advanced materials that may be widespread but are only very rarely locally abundant (which is easily explainable through the vagaries of stellar and planetary formation processes) control the output of technology. Sure it is possible to produce more, but it means racking up massive economic losses in that sector (its worth noting the that, to continue the rare earth comparison above, the US is presently considering this, re-upping production at a massive California mine so we can maintain national security while losing a lot of money when placed up against cheaper Chinese production), which most governments apparently considered worse than losing control of fringe territories that were marginal economic contributors anyway. This also nicely explains the Empire's ability to massively increase the military in such a short time - Palpatine changed the economic calculus and was indeed willing to lose a lot of money in order to support a comparably vast military apparatus and he made up for the suffering this caused through vast oppression and further wage reduction (often via working people literally to death).

 

I was more going for wars between member states or civil wars, not a war with something perceived as an "alien" or foreign threat

Wasn't going for the direct comparison, just what is like through my eyes. I am sure on a galactic scale their would be gaps in technology as well. Just that over millions and millions of settled worlds there would be more than just a tiny handful of planets who have significant military assets and super advanced technology. Then those who didn't would depend on or be heavily influenced by those who do.

Yes times change. There would be periods of realitve peace, and only a few ( a very relative term of a galactic scale) would maintain large militaries (like your example of the USA and France having nuclear carriers, though I think nuclear weapons would be more apt of a comparison). Then there would be times like WWII, the Cold War, or many other violent epochs in Earth's history, where the size and firepower of more than few militaries grow significantly. I think the SW-verse is too often stuck in an extreme version of the former, even when there actually is a galactic scale conflict going on. It all comes down to scaling up to something more fitting for a galaxy. One of the reasons I love Star Wars so much is that to me it is grand and epic story setting and I don't think the numbers do it justice.

What can I say, I am an engineer and the "numbers" as is just don't compute for me

 

Even in the Republic's most serene moments (like what the pre-TPM era seems to be portrayed as) there were regional conflicts and local squabbles all the time. Even TCW makes offhand remarks to several (Battle of Malastare Narrows, the Zygerrian crackdown, the Mandalorian Civil War, Mandalore being decimated from orbit, Pantora's chairman seeing "a hundred planets rise and fall through force of arms" etc.).
One of the nicest trivia bits of the show, since pre-TCW the Invasion of Naboo seemed to be pumped up by the EU as the biggest conflict before the Clone Wars.

 

They had at least 2 star fleet coups as well.

Again a question of what ýou would consider significant. Tallaan, a world with some 67 billion people and major starships construction yards maintains a fleet of 12 heavy cruiser ish ships + support ships and is considered over armed under the Empire. Whilst Warlord Esva has some 80 heavy cruisers and support ships and is able to dominate swaths of the Unknown Regions. While the Empire is convinced that there is basically no planet in the galaxy that can resist a force of 6 Star Destroyer and accompanying ships for a significant period. The biggest battle of the Clone Wars was also happens to get fought by a few thousand ships in the range of heavy cruisers or remarkably less powerful in case of the Seps who’s most powerful vessels where a few dozen refitted superfreighters.

Nuclear weapons are only really useful for wanton mass slaughter and as deterrents, even “Tactical nuclear weapons” are somewhat of a no brainer. Air craft carriers are the better analogy to SW warships, as they serve the same function of power projection.

Yep by hasty mass levies and fleet construction, like it also happens in the SW galaxy, though even in such major wars on Earth surprisingly small fractions of world population would actually be involved.

Thing is all these conflict were on a scale easily fought and won by the security forces and Jedi with their fleets of patrol ships. Plus a hundred planets in his lifetime? Thats not even a deceit sized sector going up in full revolt and getting beaten down. They must really have been having a period of serene peace.

 

This.

I never got why some people thought the Dreadnaught fleet was like a huge numerical force in the conflict. Zahn's books concentrate on Thrawn's machinations and gambles, it's not a Jane's Fighting Ships for SW.
Zahn is practically level-headed compared to the Corellian Trilogy (the entire Republic Navy locked down at once, really...)

 

Well, regardless of whether you are a minimalist, moderate, or maximalist, Dan Wallace came up with a fantastic retcon for this oddity from the Corellian Trilogy. The New Republic Navy being "locked up" at this point does NOT include warships assigned to patrol the NR's borders, the Imperial Remnant, or key installations. Factor in that the NR relied heavier on PSF's than the Empire or later GADF did, and it becomes a workable retcon.

Basically, the New Republic had all of it's pieces on the "board" and it's spare vessels tied up in upgrades and repairs. I would love an additional retcon that showed the PSF's unwilling or unable to aid the NRDF in the Core, which would tie nicely to the issues we see the NR having in the HoT duology.

--Adm. Nick

 

Well, the Corellian trilogy takes place in 18 ABY, we know now that during Pellaeon's offensive in 17 ABY the Empire lost a huge amount of territory, something like 30-40 sectors. The key point is, much of that territory had been continously in Imperial hands since 19 BBY, meaning that there were two whole generations of people who had never known anything but Imperial (or Pentastar Alignment is you want to get technical) rule. Those worlds in the New Territories may have been pretty hostile to the transition and required a lot of pacification and monitoring.

So it actually makes certain amount of sense that the military was locked up conducting what was essentially a massive occupation.

 

Little question: How much of it's military did the Alliance send to Endor? I have found many different sources, from half of the fleet to every ship they could get.

 

They apparently sent everything, but the Alliance itself had roving fleets and ships protecting vital homeworlds. Not to mention the defense force of the entire Calamari Sector. We never see Bulwarks, Dauntlesses or Liberators in the battle itself, I assume they were kept at home. The fleet was really meant to be conducting a rapid strike, stalling for time while the fighters went into the core of the DSII. Things turned out a bit differently.

 

I imagine they took everything they could, but that plenty of ships couldn't get there (as big as the galaxy is, sneaking fleets of heavy warships through enemy territory can't be easy).

 

There's also a lot of scattered rebel groups that don't even officially join the Alliance, they're just on their own or loose affiliates. Anti-Imperial noble families in the Tapani Sector, for one.

 

Indeed. The Rebellion Era Campaign Guide actually provides a good source for an explanation. It seperates the Rebel Alliance's forces into a small central core (Navy, Specforce, and Starfighter Command) and much larger, dispersed Sector Forces.

So Ackbar may have indeed brought almost everything that was in the 'main fleet' to Endor, while this still represented only a small portion of the overall Rebel Alliance naval forces.